Thinking outside the box is great. Pooping outside the box? Not so much (cat question)

[huskerlaw]

Cross-posted to the Pet Group, but I know there are a lot of kitty people here too, so...

Spencer is 4 years old, and recently started pooping outside of the litter box. At first it seemed to happen only when he was angry about something (I went on a trip, there were lots of people over, etc), but now it seems to be random.

A bit of background...Spencer is neurotic. Yes, even by cat standards. He does not like to be held by *anyone*. He will let me pet him if he initiates it, but otherwise will run away when anyone tries to touch him. It does seem like that has gotten a bit better recently though. He initiates contact more often, etc.

Ok, now about the poop...when the pooping thing started, about a year and a half ago, it was clearly in response to an annoyance and he would poo right outside the litter box. He has now moved to a corner of the living room...same corner every time he does it. Before, he would always do it in the middle of the night, but a few days ago, he did it while my roommate was sitting in the same room. And, again, there no longer seems to be an obvious precipitating event. This doesn't happen every day, most of the time he's perfectly content to poo in the box. The cleanliness of the box doesn't seem to be a deciding factor.

I have deep-cleaned the corner numerous times, and there is already a Feliway plug-in in the living room (though not in that corner). Thankfully it's a wood floor, so he's not ruining carpet, and he does not pee outside of the litter box (god forbid). But my roomie is understandably fed up with cleaning poo when I'm gone and I clearly would prefer that this not become a (more frequent) habit of his.

So, my question is...any idea how to stop this behavior? Especially since we almost never actually catch him in the act?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. My dear huskerlaw...

Yikes! You and Droopy have the tough questions tonight!

And I really have no idea what to do. Could you talk to your vet? And perhaps the folks in the Pet Group will help...

Anyway, it's great to see you tonight!

:hug:

[huskerlaw]

2. Hi Peggy!

If I can't figure something out, or nobody has a good suggestion, I probably will have to contact the vet. I don't think it's a health issue, and we have tried kitty Prozac for his neurotic tendencies (we thought the poo issue might be connected), so I'm not sure what more the vet could do/suggest. Hopefully one of the DU cat owners will stop by with a fabulous idea. ;)

Good to see you, hope all is well.

:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I am well, thanks!

Writing poetry, having fun...

Saw the crescent moon tonight; posted about it in GD...

Hope you're well too!

:hug:

[Lil Missy]

4. I have a "special needs" kitty, and I'm wondering. Is there something about

your roommate that bothers him? Is there any tension in the home? Or with the roommate?

I ask because my "snarly butt" cat acted out a lot when my ex lived here. When things got tense, he'd piss on the bed. Always on HER side, LOL!

I just think that cat is trying to tell you something. He's upset, for whatever reason. It's up to you to learn kitty speak.

Please forgive me for being too blunt.

[huskerlaw]

5. That's a good point...

and no, Spencer doesn't particularly like her (though he has gotten better, and doesn't hate her by any means). She's one of those people that walks really heavy, even though she's tiny, so she freaks him out, unintentionally. That said, the poo doesn't seem to be directed at her specifically.

He has always had an issue with me leaving on trips. Anytime I walk out the door with a suitcase, it's pretty much a guarantee that there will be poo on the floor that night. I don't leave all that horribly often, so we just deal with it and know that it's one of Spencer's quirks. But now he's doing it in the middle of the night when I'm home, approximately 2x per week.

I was out of town for the past 3 days, and he did poo on the floor the first day (as usual), and then also on the second day, while the roomie was in the room. That has NEVER happened before. Normally he just stays away from her. Before recently, I definitely agree that the poo was kitty speak, and I could easily figure out what he was mad about...me leaving, the night after we threw a dinner party, etc. Now, I honestly don't know what the problem is. If anything, aside from the poo, Spencer's been acting more "normal"...he has let the roomie pet him a few times, and he seeks me out more often. :shrug:

[Lil Missy]

8. Ahhh! That's it. You leave, that upsets him.

You just went out of town for 3 days, again. Spencer doesn't know if you'll come back. You keep leaving, and this is not my reality, it's kitty speak.

I don't know what the solution is. You have to work, and go out of town. I hardly ever leave home, but if and when I do go visit my sister out of town for 2 days, "snarly butt" will punish me and ignore me when I get home.

He also plots with the other cat to kill me when I get back, lol! And the dog poops in the house. Once they get even with me for leaving, they are fine. Then they camp out on top of me that night, so as if they could prevent me from leaving again. It's always predictable.

[huskerlaw]

10. Well yeah, I get that...

but now he's doing it when I'm home too! It used to just be when I was gone, and I knew it was stress and acting out. But now he'll do it when I'm home, no suitcases in sight, no recent trips, etc. I was fine (well, as fine as one can be) with it when I knew the cause, but now it seems to be more habit than acting out and that's not really cool with me.

[Lil Missy]

13. He never knows when you'll leave again. He's worried.

[huskerlaw]

15. That could be...

though he definitely understands that suitcase = leaving. The second the suitcase comes out, Spencer places himself on or near it, and then without fail, will poop outside the box the day he sees me leave with the suitcase. He doesn't necessarily poop outside the box on the day(s) between when the suitcase comes out and when I leave, though. Odd kitty.

[moriah]

6. Oddball suggestion -- can you put a box there?

My cat has peeing issues, and they're obviously medical (he's about to have to have PU surgery.... no pun intended), but they HAVE gotten better now that we've got two boxes in the house.

A kitty box in the living room corner might be easier to deal with than poop on the hardwood floor....

[huskerlaw]

11. I've thought about that...

but it's basically right inside the front door, so having a box there would be rather inconvenient. Alas.

[murielm99]

7. You could try putting his food dish there.

Cats won't shit where they eat. (This is because they are smarter than most people).

Of course, if he gets mad enough, he could just start pooping in another corner.

It might not be easy to figure out what is making him angry.

The times my current cat did that, it was easy to figure out what was making her angry. The first time, we had a guest cat staying with us for three weeks. The owner could not afford to board him, and he was a nice cat, so we kept him for the period of time his owner had to be gone.

The second time, we had too many strange people in and out of the house.

I hope you can deal with this. Good luck.

[huskerlaw]

12. I might give that a try...

I'm just afraid that he will poop somewhere else, like behind the couch or something. As obnoxious as his current location is, it is easy to spot and clean up at least. Ugh.

[Whoa_Nelly]

9. A few articles that may help

and, maybe a trip to the vet for a check-up, just to be sure there's not a physical problem. :hi:


http://peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2174&aid=158

http://cats.lovetoknow.com/Defecating_Outside_Litter_Box

http://www.floridapetpages.com/articles/CatLitterboxProblems.html

[huskerlaw]

14. Thank you!

I'll definitely check those out tomorrow.

I'm fairly certain that it's not a physical problem...most of the time he does use the box. I took him to the vet for behavioral issues (including the pooping) a few months ago and everything checked out ok physically...granted, that was before the pooping became a random-seeming event.

[polly7]

16. Spencer sounds a lot like my Hobo.

Sorry, I've never heard of a kitty going outside his litter box for no reason .... that's strange. Mine has a phobia about going in the house at all if there's snow on the ground. If I'm gone for too long - he actually goes right over the drain on the bathtub. Uch. I guess it's easy enough to clean up with bleach and I give him credit for trying to pick the easiest place to clean, but it still makes me laugh a lot, I guess I'm sick. Good luck with figuring out Spencer's problem.

[huskerlaw]

23. Hahaha, that's actually pretty smart!

When I was a kid, my sister's cat got trapped in an outdoor shed for a few days. He was fine, thankfully, and he had peed on a sponge and pooped on a pile of rags! Sometimes they're smart little buggers...other times the poo on the living room floor. ;)

[AwakeAtLast]

17. I've got the same issue with one of our cats

We have tried everything. Vet. Feliway. Special litter (Dr. something). Moving litter boxes.

Nothing has worked.

She has ruined the carpet so we are now in the process of putting laminate flooring down.

There are two kitties, three litter boxes. Boxes get scooped every day and they are big enough for both of them.

We are about to give up, so any help you get might help us, too.

Thanks!

[huskerlaw]

24. Ugh.

That's kind of what I'm afraid of. Right now, it's really not a huge deal. He's not ruining the flooring and he does it where it's easy to see and clean up. I'm just worried that he'll escalate, more than anything.

I'll let you know if I figure out the perfect solution though!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. Here's one theory, which I got from my vet

when I had a cat who occasionally pooped in places I didn't want him pooping.

The vet said cats sometimes poop outside the box because they mean for the poop to be a scent marker for you. They think you need it to find your way home. Cats normally bury it because they don't want predators to know where they are. But sometimes they leave it unburied so other cats know of their presence, sometimes to establish dominance. So if you need to find a cat, his poo will tell you where he is.

I don't know if that makes any sense in your situation but it's an interesting theory.

[LisaL]

21. Gee, maybe that's why my cat pees and poops on the bed.

He'd figured I would not find it otherwise.
:rofl:

[huskerlaw]

25. Interesting!

He does poo right inside the main entrance... :shrug:

[MorningGlow]

19. Vengeance poop

Wish I could offer advice, Huskerlaw, but I'm afraid I don't have any--we have a vengeance pooper too. For Clover, it's because the other female uses her as a chew toy. Jasmine just wants to play, but the hiding and pouncing doesn't translate as "fun" for a neurotic cat. And Spencer sounds about as high-strung as Clover.

Look on the bright side: at least Spencer is only vengeance pooping in one place. Clover views our 2,000 sq. ft. house as one giant litterbox. x( (I thank the gods every day that we have all hardwoods as well. I can't imagine what we'd do if we had carpets.) I should have bought stock in Method cleaning spray and paper towels.

Good luck, HL. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread in hopes that someone will offer a solution too. :hi:

[huskerlaw]

26. I'm guessing that's what it is, but

I can't figure out why he's doing it so often when I'm home. That's a new development, and not really a welcome one. I really should be thankful that he's doing it in a place where it's easy to deal with and it's not harming anything. :hi:

[davsand]

20. Have you changed your litter box filler?

Chaucer is a picky little turd and if I buy the wrong brand of filler he will "protest poop" outside his box. He still pees in the box (thankfully!) even when he's mad at me for the different filler, but he just refuses to poop in anything except Tidy Cat.

I also want to ask about other animals in the house. If you have any other critters it is possible your kitty is meeting with any stress or a lack of "privacy" when he's in the box? Is his box one with a lid or a hood? If he's out there in the open pooping I doubt this is the case, but I did have one cat that refused to use her box if ANYONE (feline, canine or human) was in the room.

Good luck--I hope you can get this sorted out.


Laura

[huskerlaw]

27. Yeah...

I've tried multiple different kinds of litter, he has access to a self-scooping box filled with crystal litter and a box with regular litter. The self-scooping box has a hood, the other box is actually a large Rubbermaid container with a hole cut in the lid (perfect for the cat who stands and pees on the side of the box).

He doesn't seem to care about privacy, since his latest stunt included pooping right on the floor with 2 people in the room...the little jerk! ;)

[davsand]

29. So, the box is not only clean but it is his "usual brand"?

I swear, some cats are every bit as bad as any human with a brand loyalty. (Just try bringing home a cheap brand of toilet paper in my house and you'll see first hand HOW strange men can be on THAT subject!) I think that for cats it is the feeling of a strange litter on their paws, but I'll never be able to prove it...



Laura

[huskerlaw]

31. He doesn't have a usual brand...

I pretty much buy whatever, so he's never gotten used to one brand. ;)

[Haole Girl]

22. Some suggestions:

1. Even though there is no way to completely eradicate the smell (where your cat pooped outside the litter box), since cats have 30x the smell power of humans, it helps to use ammonia in the place that was "marked".

2. It never hurts to have more litter boxes. The only way we finally got rid of that problem when we'd leave for trips is more litter boxes. We now have 4 litter boxes for just two cats! lol Hey... it beats the alternative.

3. As our Vet recommended, to ensure cats continue to use only their litter boxes, it helps to be extremely vigilant about keeping the litter boxes clean.

Hope this helps! :hi:

[huskerlaw]

28. Thanks!

Ammonia is a good idea, I've just been cleaning it with regular cleaning stuff...I'm sure he can still smell it. We have 2 litter boxes, and really don't have a good place for more. Since he does use the box for the most part, I don't know that more would help anyway. As for the cleanliness, he's been known to poop outside the box a mere few hours after they've been cleaned...I think he's just being a brat, lol.

:hi:

[SPKrazy]

30. Change his litter

I had a cat that did that, turns out the formula on the litter was "new and improved", he didn't think so.

Bought plain clay litter with no smells added, he never did that again.

[huskerlaw]

32. Hmmm...

well, I've never bought one particular brand of litter, and he's been doing this to varying degrees for nearly 2 years. The brand of litter doesn't seem to matter.