Either I am insensitive or my girlfriend is crazy. Help me distinguish!

[Lucky Luciano]

Situations in bullet points:

*We have been together two years and living together for a year. I had a very good job that supported the two of us living in a very nice high rise apartment in Manhattan, but was laid off in October. I pay $2300 of the rent and she pays $900. I have enough money to live frugally for about a year as of today.

*I am not superstressed and feel very confident that I will get back on track. She, OTOH, is highly stressed and freaking out.

*She had wanted to quit her job that she hated as a makeup artist at an extremely ritzy 5th avenue department store - she almost did it, but then I got laid off. I suggested that it would be good to keep her job.

*After 5 months, during the deepest recession in 70 years, she bitches at me for not having a job yet that pays as much as before. I am busting my ass to get an acceptable job so that we can maintain our lifestyle. Downgrading is hard for anyone. Eight people on my desk out of 16 were let go when I was canned - two of them finally got a job in the last month, so I am not alone. I feel I am on a correct path and may again work soon.

*She gets angry at me because she wants to quit the job she hates, but cannot because I got laid off...well it is not as simple as that. She knows what has happened to the economy and has been supportive, but is nonetheless stressed out - and is concerned that even if I do get a similar job, then she cannot count on it to be stable and that stresses her out as well. She would like to quit so that she can do work with dogs in animal shelters and eventually open her own doggy day care business.

*She misses her family back in Japan. She needs two weeks to go back, but she only has one week left of vacation from her work. I suggest she ask for one week of unpaid vacation so she can get two weeks to go to Japan in September when the weather is nice.

*SHE FREAKS OUT! "You know I cannot get unpaid days off! My company does not allow that! We have been over this! Why are you being so fucking insensitive! You are so flippantly telling me to just take time off and you know my situation and you don't even have a fucking job!"

*It is really a bit more complicated than that, but that is the short story of why my seemingly innocuous comment pissed her off to the point where she seems to want to break up.

*To be honest, her stress stresses me out. I think it would be much easier sometimes if I did not have to deal with her stress about my job situation - which will no doubt improve - and when it does I will kick ass and take no prisoners again. I am 100% sure of it, but her nagging is EXTREMELY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE and PISSES ME OFF TO THE POINT OF IT BEING DEFCON 1 IN MY HEAD - even though I have maintained my cool 1000% so far. She is crying and crazy right now and I am totally cool.




Question - Am I insensitive to her situation as it relates to me and our future life together (We always thought we might get married).....or is she fucking batshit crazy so that I should just RUN RUN RUN when our lease is up at the end of May?

**Final Jeopardy Music in the background**


-edited DEFCON 1 from 5!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I don't know if your girlfriend is crazy

but she sounds like a rather selfish and insensitive person. People do not improve with marriage. My advice would be to dump her and find someone who is a little more supportive and understanding.

[Ilsa]

2. Go ahead and spend a few hundred bucks on couples counselling.

I think it is money well spent if you care about each other. I don't think there is any way both of you will get a fair shake here on DU. A good therapist can help you both figure out how to cope with the problems going on in your lives right now.

Good luck to you both.

[kwassa]

49. I second this opinion

you need an impartial third party who is also a professional at couples counseling.

you can't get any really valuable advice here.

[crispini]

3. Mmm. She's Japanese, you're American?

If so, I bet there's stuff going on here that you don't get / haven't captured in this narrative ... Why, exactly, is your joblessness stressing her out so much?

[Lucky Luciano]

11. Yes...definitely more to it than the narrative...

She is more supportive than what I suggest...For example (among many others), she pays for dinners out 60% of the time now instead of 20% and we have downgraded the restaurants significantly. She always complained that I did very little housework when I had a job 12 hours a day that was intensely stressful (but very alluring somehow). I have picked up a lot of that slack and have even learned to cook a bit too.

She is stressed out about my job situation because I think she was expecting to have a comfortable stable life. That all blew up in my face when Wall St crashed. I think one of the problems between us is that I am prone to a high risk high reward lifestyle...perhaps she would be more happy with a doctor/lawyer type that can provide the stability and comfort she wants. Even if I only made $100-$150K per year in a very stable job that would more than suffice....she is not comfortable with risk and I am....I have been considering some entrepreneurial ventures as well with some very bright people and she will have none of it - "JUST GET A JOB!" GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

I am ready to throw in the towel...


Disclaimer: I do not want her to sound like the bad guy. She really is a very good person overall. Truly.

[gmoney]

14. This is what scientists call a "window of opportunity"

She seems to be presenting her true colors here in the poorer part of "for richer, for poorer."

"Nice enough" most of the time still kind of sucks, and I'm betting you could find someone who's going to treat you better.

Buy her a first-class one-way ticket to Japan. Best money you'll ever spend...

[Lorien]

51. Yeah, we live in a society filled with disposible goods and disposible people

she sounds like a normal person-male or female-who is carrying the financial burden while a significant other is unemployed. I'm seeing the same among many couples I know-one guy I know even ended up in the hospital with an anxiety attack recently, and it was all because of a job loss and financial problems. It really freaks some people out to feel so insecure-especially if they've never dealt with it before. What other woman will jump at the chance to date an unemployed man who likes high risk jobs during a recession/ depression? I know a lot of you guys see the rest of us as just Kleenex to be used and tossed aside, but geez! Look at the times we live in! People everywhere have a good reason for feeling highly stressed if they are at all aware of what's really going on.

[gmoney]

55. It just sounds like even when things were good, she wasn't.

My last relationship, I wasted a lot of time, energy, and money giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who never showed herself to be worth it. Constantly taking without ever making any efforts to improve her situation. Why should she? She had me to take care of stuff. I'm not saying I was a perfect boyfriend at all, but we were wrong for each other and we should have realized it after 2 months instead of nearly 2 years.

I'm not advocating viewing people as disposable, just recognizing when you're with the wrong person. Life's too short.

It didn't sound like the OP's girlfriend is "carrying the financial burden" -- sounds like he's living off savings, and she's picking up the dinner tab a little more often, but he's still carrying most of the financial burden. If he "stuck with her" I bet if the money ever runs out, so will she. I hope the OP is able to find a new position, and someone who would maybe appreciate him a little more.

On edit: reviewing the OP, I missed the bullet point how she wants to quit her apparently good-paying job to work in an animal shelter. Excuse me, but aren't most of those volunteer positions? Expecting to make a living wage at one of those positions is like quitting your job because you want to be a ballerina or an astronaut. I'd fully support her volunteering -- maybe it would help her deal with her stress, but for her to be angry that she can't quit her job to indulge in this sort of "fantasy" job shows a real disconnect.

[MrSlayer]

4. Yep, she's crazy. Run.

Of course they're all crazy to a certain degree.


Defcon 5 means everything is cool by the way. Defcon 1 is what you mean.

[GOPisEvil]

5. One thing I expect from an SO is support.

Nagging is not support.

I suggest counseling to see if you can work it out. If that doesn't work, run.

[flvegan]

6. Partnerships are funny when it comes down to the monetary nitty gritty.

You have a choice to make: enable her or run like hell.

I suggest the latter. Strongly.

[Jack Sprat]

7. Better jump on the bus, Gus

Set yourself free, Lee.

[Lars39]

8. You need somebody that'll love you and support you even if you lose it all.

[Orrex]

9. Look at it this way...

This isn't likely the last financial bump that you'll run into during your relationship with her, but it's a good indicator of how she's apt to respond the next time around and the time after that.

It's dangerous to weigh in on situations like this when we can only see part of one side of it, though. That's no discredit to you, but it's simply the nature of these things. However, I suspect (as others in the thread seem to do) that money is not the beginning or end of the problem.


Best of luck to you both.

[Shell Beau]

16. Yes. It is hard to tell with only your side of the story.

On your side, she sounds a bit selfish, but if I were to hear her take, I may feel differently.


not you, the OP! oops!

[Lucky Luciano]

19. You are definitely right!

I had to keep the post shorter though. I did try to stress throughout this thread that she is supportive and I will say that she works hard for the relationship.

Ultimately, we may just not be on the same page....One of my passions, for example, is exotic adventure travel...and she is not into that at all...and she would severely restrict that if we were married - especially if we had kids. I will acknowledge that may be selfish on my part to want that lifestyle even with kids, but let's put it this way...I am extremely jealous of these kinds of people:

http://www.mosttraveledpeople.com/_MTP_showuser1.cfm?id=1
http://www.mosttraveledpeople.com/_MTP_showuser1.cfm?id=34
http://www.mosttraveledpeople.com/_MTP_showuser1.cfm?id=3181
http://www.mosttraveledpeople.com/_MTP_showuser1.cfm?id=53

This site breaks down the world into 757 different "places."

[Shell Beau]

20. It sounds like y'all are just not meant for each other.

You need someone who shares your love of travel.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. Honey,

it's not you.

Set yourself free....................

[S n o w b a l l]

12. As a woman who's always been independent...

or contributed 50/50 to the finances in my marriage, I seriously don't understand how you'd put up with that. It's not the 1950's. Women can't expect to be taken care of these days.

I give you credit though for putting up with it. I'd be kicking her out the door to give her a taste of the real world and living on her own. She sounds like a spoiled brat.

[Lucky Luciano]

13. Maybe I was incomplete...

In this kind of post it is hard to figure out what to put in and what to leave out - the post could obviously be much longer...

She is fully capable of moving out and living independently on her own. She came to the US knowing very little (conversational) English and built a life here on her own completely. She is very good at what she does, but hates it because working in those ritzy department stores requires standing up for eight hours straight - all sitting is forbidden. She does makeup and her hands are becoming arthritic as well. She can comfortably get a studio apartment in Queens and carry on without me...but I do think she would prefer to eventually be a housewife 1950's style....while running a doggy day care business and a doggy shelter for pit bulls (we both love pits!).

[S n o w b a l l]

21. It just sounds like the stress of being unemployed...

...for any couple really. She's used to the lifestyle that you've both had. If you're doing everything you can to get another job, then she needs to be patient. It's been 5 months and I'm sure she's getting scared and impatient.

You just need to reassure her and make sure you do your very best to find a job. That's all you can do. If she can't go through this hard time with you, then that shows you what kind of person she is. Life isn't easy and this is just a test of a future life with her if times got hard.

[XemaSab]

15. She is scared

Your being 1000% mellow might be making her more scared.

Both of you are normal people in a stressful situation.

[Lucky Luciano]

17. I think there is a lot of truth to your statement.

I do not know how to be anything but totally cool. I am, afterall, a pretty good poker player! Generally, I am the kind of person who performs extremely well under pressure...I do tend to underperform when the pressure is not on though.

[XemaSab]

18. Here's a hint:

Indicating to her that you are worried and that you understand that she is worried may go a LONG ways here.

[Jamastiene]

22. Money changes everything.

I know many people are not major Cyndi Lauper fans, but if you only read the lyrics to that song, it explains your situation in a way that will help you understand. When it comes to money, people are really funny.

[tigereye]

23. financial stress can cause a lot of fear and anger

maybe talking to someone outside the situation might help. I think a lot of couples go through this kind of thing when there is a big change and the fiscal or other expectations are challenged.


Good luck. Maybe you need a good long talk where you lay out your concerns - if she sees a plan for both your futures, it might be easier. Also I wonder if there is some cultural component that isn't evident to those of us reading...

[Lucky Luciano]

24. We had that long talk yesterday

I promised that I would give myself until June to stay in the same industry. After that I will downgrade. I have a couple very strong leads, but the overall comp in the business is lower, but with possibly higher salaries if that makes sense. As such, I will be hopeful that she keeps her job when I land so that we can BOTH maintain the lifestyle we want...but I think that will cause resentment from her side. The cultural issue here is that, being Japanese, she has a greater expectation of not having to work once in a committed relationship - like her sister in Japan - a housewife married to a doctor who is the son of a prominent doctor - she was a nutritionist before getting married.

[tigereye]

30. I wish you both well

I think even women who have grown up in our culture, where expectations that we will be able to support ourselves even when married, etc, can still be operating below the surface, desire to be taken care of (for lack of a better term) in times of stress.

[stewartcolbert08]

25. Well

this is just a "on the surface" response but I think she needs to chill out. She needs to take a deep breath and realize that this situation is only temporary. You guys are a team so you need to be there for each other, on the other hand I think that she is being incredibly insensitive to YOUR situation. She needs to be a little more sensitive to your situation especially since you losing your job was completely out of your control. Good luck friend. I wish we could do more.:grouphug:

[libodem]

26. you could ditch her

bring the rest of your money and live for cheap with a fat old white woman:rofl: in Idaho.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Hey, I'm in Utah and looking for a sugar momma...

[libodem]

37. Damn

another drunken Irishman, sorry I didn't see your post until today. Funny how this silliness is actually an analogy to this poor New York, gentleman's dilemma. I'll bet his young Japanese woman is beautiful and smart and has him so far over a barrel. Just like if I had my own drunken Irishman. (which actually I do he just lives in Knight's Landing California)I see him, a couple of times a year and I'm maddly in love with him. I'm a sucker for the tall, dark, Irish, drunken type.

[Drunken Irishman]

39. Well I'm not tall, but definitely dark.

My hair is nearly black and I've got sexy blue eyes. ;)

[Drunken Irishman]

27. Run.

[rucky]

29. Sounds to me like you two are ready for marriage.

you may as well make it legal.

[Generic Brad]

31. Been there, done that

My wife is Japanese and I have to say this sounds exactly like what we went through in the late 80's.

You are asking her to trust you. Realize that she is asking the same. Tell her that her happiness is more important to you than any other consideration. If she wants to quit her job, support her on that even if it means short term financial hardship.

Yes, it is a gamble. But are you in this relationship for the long term? So this sets you back a year or two. At least she knows that you trust her enough to make the best decision for both of you. Giving in to my wife like this went against everything in my grain, but it turned out well in the end. It marked a turning point in our marriage. She knew I had confidence in her to succeed which, in turn, eventually bred professional success for her.

Life is too short to stress about money. Be happy with yourself and what you do and everything else works out in the end.

[Lucky Luciano]

42. Thanks for the post...

yes....I will trust her to do what she wants...she MUST do same for me in return.

The other thing is that we both must make sacrafices to try to make the other's dreams come true. My dreams involve adventure trekking/travel in remote places (This freaks her out because she thinks it is sooooo dangerous :eyes:) and her dreams involve helping dogs and defenseless animals. I will support that with all I can if she will support my dreams. If we cannot do this for each other, then I we will resent each other. I don't want that. She is quite beautiful, but there are many beuatiful women in NYC. One of them will be able to help me make my dreams come true if she is not the one who will do it.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

32. Hmmmmmmmmm....

Sounds to me like you may want to consider a new girlfriend :)
However, I've been married and divorced twice so I'm not the best judge of healthy relationships :rofl:

[cherish44]

33. You may want to consider looking for a "tide me over" type of job

Might relieve some of the stress. Even those jobs are hard to find. Where I live we had an opening for a receptionist that offered 18 hours a week at minimum wage. Over 100 people applied (this is a very rural area) some of them were WAY overqualified (college gradutes, masters degrees, even a Summa Cum Laude). Some were so desperate they called every day checking the status of their application and wanting to schedule an interview.

[keroro gunsou]

34. you're both

crazy.

she's just stressing out and lashing out at you. be your usual wonderful self and she'll be fine.

then again, i'm single so YMMV.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

35. The best single piece of dating advice I've ever heard (for guys)

When you take her out to dinner, watch how she treats the wait staff. She will be treating you the same way in about six months.

My advice...dump her. Dump her fast!

[Lucky Luciano]

43. We are both very good to waitstaff. nt

[applegrove]

36. All over the country people are fighting for the exact same reasons you are.

Maybe set up a few counselling sessions with a professional. Would be a shame if you guys broke up just because of the economy.

[MilesColtrane]

38. Incomplete information

We'll need photos to determine if she is hot enough for you to put up with this level of shit she's dishing out.

(hint: she better be smoking)

[Lucky Luciano]

44. Haha...she is quite beautiful actually...

but don't get the impression that she is the only pain in the ass. It took a TON of prodding on her part before I would do housework. I have gradually caved and gotten better at helping out - especially after I lost my job. I was incapable of cleaning when I had my job because it was a really really intense job arriving on the desk at 645am and leaving around 700pm - I was dead on arrival when I got home - no cooking (only ordered out) or cleaning during the week and I did not want to waste my weekend cleaning after a week like that!

[MedleyMisty]

40. I can sort of understand her side

I don't understand the desire to keep up a lifestyle of conspicious consumption, but I can definitely understand setting your heart on the idea of being able to quit a job you hate and then being upset when that dream dies, even though you know that it's kind of selfish.

I've been married for almost seven years, and things have calmed down quite a bit. But back in the day I would get all emotional and cry and be "crazy" sometimes, and it only made it worse when my husband got offended by that and said I was being "difficult" because I interpreted that to mean that I wasn't allowed to have emotions or be upset, that I had to just accept everything and be fine with everything and that my feelings didn't matter. It seemed very wrong for me to have to apologize for being upset when he made me upset in the first place.

As the years went on we learned more about each other and tried our best to make compromises and accomodate each other's emotional styles. I do think that I still give in more than he does, but then I think that I am a bit more emotionally developed and can deal with the ups and downs of life more than he can so I guess it makes some sense.

This isn't directly telling you what to do because I don't have the authority for that. It's just a suggestion based on my own experiences and that comes from my own personality, and you have a quite different personality and different experiences so it may not work for you.

You could try talking to her and acknowledging her frustration and pain while also acknowledging your own feelings. You could explain your side while also trying to understand and see her side. It's important to validate her feelings and her right to them, but she also needs to validate your feelings and your right to them - and she's more likely to do that if you take the first step and say it's okay for her to feel the way she does.

I don't know - maybe you could try to brainstorm some plans together and come up with a way for her to be able to do what she wants to do at some point in the future. It may be easier for her to deal with the job she hates if she knows that there's an expiration date and that you care about her desires for her future and want to help her get there eventually, even if you've hit a snag at present.

Or it may be that you guys are just too different and would never be happy together. I don't know. Good luck, whatever you choose to do.

Oh, and to comment on the earlier reply about watching how your date treats the wait staff - my husband and I treat them the same way. Order quickly and concisely, say thank you, understand when they're busy and stressed out and make mistakes, and leave a big tip. We're known and quite well-liked at our regular restaurants. :)

Of course I worked the drive-thru at Arby's for three years and so I know personally the hell of being treated like you're scum on the bottom of someone's shoe.

[Lucky Luciano]

45. You make reasonable points...

I don't think I am really a conspicuous consumption guy though...I do spend on travel (if that is conspicuous)...and that rent in NYC is for a one bedroom by the way! Bloody expensive here! I also spent on nice restaurants for our Saturday night dates. I rarely bought many things though. She does like Louis Vuitton crap, but she has not been over the top with it and uses her HUGE discounts at the store she works at to buy the insanely expensive brand for 50-80% off. She has actually spent a lot buying me clothes using her big discounts....I tell her not to do it, but she does it anyway. Nevertheless, she does end up managing her budget well and saves a bit.

I will ask her to try to make compromises so that I may realize my most important dreams and I will do the same for her. If we cannot do that for each other then we are not a good match. I have some very strong leads to earn some good money over the next few months, but it will not be permanent. One former boss is actually close to offering me some very good compensation for a 3-6 month project and I have another guy who I am doing a project with to develop some very interesting and unique risk management software for banks and he has a few clients lined up for the idea. I will get no pay per hour for creating this, but if those clients do sign on, I will win very big - she is not too supportive of the entrepreneurial venture which is frustrating. Perhaps if I do both at the same time and bust my ass six ways to Sunday, then things might work out really well. I day trade a little bit and have done ok with that, but I do not tell her this because she has low risk tolerance and it would just lead to arguments - if we were married, I would of course tell her. I have one other former boss and one other guy who was canned when I was who was just hired for whom I could provide consulting work - if either one of them actually hired me full time or as a consultant, then that would also be very good (and I have been communicating with them about this). I got leads in other words...she really should not give me a hard time!

[surrealAmerican]

41. It sounds to me like she really hates her job ...

... and was not just "hoping" to quit, but counting on it, until you lost yours. She also may be just more of a worrier (in general) than you are.

[NashVegas]

46. Invite Her to Move Into Her Own Place While You Do the Same

She's angry because she expected living with you to enable her to do certain things with her life, and right now she can't.

Frankly, I think she's freaking nuts to be so financially dependent on AND arrogant towards someone who is not her husband, or at least has a wedding date with. The situation doesn't look hopeless, but if you're committed to her, show it already or leave.

I can understand the desire for travel. Seems like there ought to be some way to compromise on that.

[cabbage08]

47. crazy

[mykpart]

48. People are being a bit hard on this girl.

XemaSab said it earlier: She's scared. She is far away from her family in a strange country. She has made a good life for herself, but I'm sure it wasn't easy, and she certainly wouldn't want to go back to that struggle. She hates her job and it's killing her which makes things worse. She mistakes your lack of worry for irresponsibility and fears that because you don't fret all the time about being unemployed, that you aren't trying hard enough. This is more a Mars and Venus thing than an issue of insensitivity. I hope you two are talking all this thru. If you have a "fallback" plan, have you confided that in her?

Some practical things. Please don't feel insulted if I am stating the obvious.

You might want to do some kind of freelance work so that your resume won't contain a huge time gap. Regardless of the economy, HR people will consider a four-month gap a liability.

Your SO might begin to consider another career path and start quietly looking for something else while she is still employed at the hated job. Her only choices are not being unemployed or cosmetology.

Her nagging hurts. Communicate that. It doesn't piss you off, it hurts you and makes you feel disrespected.

[elleng]

50. I've been somewhat similarly situated.

My husband (estranged) became SO UPSET that I wasn't able to find a comparable, permanent job that after a couple years (after a fair amount of emotional abuse) he hurt me badly. I wasn't going to stay at home (in our lovely house, where our daughters grew up) with him because I feared for my safety. I left the house the next day when he was in jail. This was 2+ years ago; the house has sold, he moves out of it next weekend, and we all are upset, about the house and with eachother.

I obviously didn't think either one of us would cause such pain. You know now. Leave. Save your life. You are NOT insensitive; you're doing what you can, and its not enough for her.

Good luck.

:hi:

[Lethe]

52. you should convey these feelings to her instead of telling us

let me get this straight - she's mad because she's working a job she doesn't like because you are not working a job you don't like?

[Waiting For Everyman]

53. Run.

This shows you what she'd be like as a life partner.

[old mark]

54. Money can be the greatest stressor in any relationship, and this might

be a good indicator of what you both can expect from each other in any future crisis.

Might be a good time to rethink the whole thing.

mark