Advice please... my daughter has to write a report on a military leader

[FlyingSquirrel]

good or bad, for her ROTC class. What would be the most instructive one for her? (I'll just give her a list of the responses and she can pick from them)

[rcrush]

1. General Martok

[EndersDame]

37. rcrush you never fail to make me happy

:)

[rcrush]

41. Or this guy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=9070076&mesg_id=9070088

[proteus_lives]

50. What about Kor The Da'Har Master?

;-)

[WildEyedLiberal]

90. hahah, win

[jdp349]

2. Admiral Ackbar

perhaps the most quoted military leader and strategist on the internet

[darkstar3]

76. +1.

I thought it was funny. :)

[PassingFair]

3. Major General Smedly Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

[trof]

5. BINGO! My first thought, too!

:bounce:

[Dystopian]

25. Yes! Please....Major General Smedly Butler!

War is a Racket!
Amazing man and story....

peace~

[conscious evolution]

28. YES.I agree 100%

[Kutjara]

65. removed. wrong place

[rcrush]

4. Admiral Leonard James Akaar

10 points if anyone knows who the hell he is.

[frogmarch]

6. Spartacus would be an interesting one, in

my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus (for starters)

snip:

Spartacus (c. 109 BC-71 BC), according to Roman historians, was a slave and a gladiator who became a leader (or possibly one of several leaders) in the somewhat successful slave uprising against the Roman Republic known as the Third Servile War. Little is known about Spartacus beyond the events of the war, and surviving historical accounts are inaccurate and often contradictory.

Spartacus' struggle, often seen as the fight of an oppressed people fighting for their freedom against a slave-owning aristocracy, has found new meaning for modern writers since the 19th century. The rebellion of Spartacus has proven inspirational to many modern literary and political writers, making Spartacus a folk hero among cultures both ancient and modern.

snip:

Spartacus is credited as an excellent military tactician and his experience as a former auxiliary soldier made him a formidable enemy, but his men were mostly former slave labourers who lacked military training. They hid out in the Caldera on Mount Vesuvius which at that time was dormant and heavily wooded, and this enabled them to train properly for the fight with the Romans.

Following the defeat of Glaber, two legions of militia under the command of the praetor Publius Varinius set out to confront the rebels. Spartacus intercepted an advance force of 2,000 men under Varinius’ lieutenant Lucius Furius and annihilated it. Leaving Vesuvius he discovered another force of Romans under Cossinius at a camp near Herculaneum which was similarly defeated. Moving further south into Lucania the rebels deployed in battle formation to face the 4,000 legionairies led by Varinius. Some legionaires refused to advance, while others fled but Varinius attacked and was badly defeated, Varinius escaped but the legions standards and insignia were lost. Four hundred Roman prisoners were forced to fight each other as gladiators or were crucified in celebration.

[cbdo2007]

7. How about President Obama

There's no better military leader than one who strives for peace.

[sarge43]

8. RAdm Grace Hopper

MGen Jeanne Holm

Two pioneer servicewomen.

[Mrs. Venation]

55. I Second That

Grace Hopper was the first woman to achieve the rank of Admiral in the U.S. Navy. She was a remarkable woman!

[sarge43]

56. Actually, she wasn't.

That honor goes to Alene B Duerk, then Chief of the Navy's NC, July 1972. The Nurse Corps got the first stars given to women.

Adm Hopper was past over many times, mainly because she was smarter by a factor than most of the four stripers and flags she had to deal with and she didn't pull her punches. Ya know, uppity broad.

We can thank Amazing Grace for jump starting these machines. She developed the first workable computer language.

[SKKY]

92. She developed the programming language COBOL, as well as the first compiler...

...and coined the phrase "Computer Bug". Quite a remarkable woman.

[XemaSab]

9. I'd pick a general from the Civil War or World War II

:shrug:

[Danger Mouse]

10. Patton, Rommel, Hannibal (the guy with the elephants), Napoleon...

[liberaltrucker]

11. Patton vs Rommel

A real Clash of the Titans.

[cemaphonic]

38. Rommel gets the press, probably because the US fought him

but I think Guderian is the real military genius on the German side of WWII

[Mixopterus]

71. Or Manstein

Manstein was quite brilliant.

[cemaphonic]

83. Yeah, I'd probably put him above Rommel too

But Guderian completely revolutionized warfare with the blitzkrieg and combined-arms doctrines that he developed.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. I'll add Joshua Chamberlain, Teddy Roosevelt, & Dwight Eisenhower

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. Sun Tzu

[Moondog]

15. Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winnah!!

Plus, he wrote a book. And it is really short.

Seriously, if this thing is going to be graded by military types, just knowing who Sun Tzu is has to be worth extra credit!

[Rabrrrrrr]

18. Yep - automatic shitloads of brownie points for using Sun Tzu!

Plus, if the girl is serious about a military career as an officer, she should read Sun Tzu NOW.

And keep reading it.

[Moondog]

31. Amen.

[flvegan]

21. Thread over.

Sun Tzu, absolutely.

[City of Mills]

14. Benjamin Butler

Civil War General, he's an interesting case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin_Butler_(politician)

[taterguy]

16. John Paul Vann from Neil Sheehan's A Bright Shining Lie

I apologize in advance if I have the name wrong but I don't feel like looking it up.

Regardless it's a book that everyone should read.

Might not get her a great grade in the class though.

[Paladin]

60. Yeah, Some Of The Gamier Details Would Have To Be Left Out.

Great choice of a subject and a book, though; my compliments. Best book on Viet Nam ever written, as far as I'm concerned.

Have you seen where Sheehan (finally) has a new book out? It's about the Air Force general involved with the development of the nuclear missile program. Great advance reviews.......

[Mixopterus]

17. Charles Martel

[pokerfan]

19. Zapp Brannigan

[Xipe Totec]

80. If we hit that bull's eye, the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...

checkmate!

[wain]

20. General U.S. Grant

whose memoirs are an American classic and a great read

[NNadir]

34. I second this recommendation.

Unlike many historians, I rank Grant as one of the great Presidents as well as its greatest General ever.

President Grant is definitely the most under rated Presidents in history. I would rank him in the top ten.

[nytemare]

22. Col Claus von Stauffenberg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_Schenk_Graf_von_Stauffenberg

A hero if there ever was one.

[Inchworm]

23. Genghis Khan

He had some serious "campaigns" ...err, invasions.

:hi:

[Xipe Totec]

79. +1 n/t

[Monk06]

24. Gen Omar Bradley would be a good one. Also Canadian Gen Sir Arthur Currie who planned the Vimy Ridge

assault in WWI

[Captain Hilts]

26. George C. Marshall. In the '30s he helped run the CCC. A real progressive.

Or Gen. Lucius Clay. The 'MacArthur' of Germany after the war.

He was not a combatant.

Adm. Hyman Rickover for one who was batshit crazy.

[Vinnie From Indy]

27. Capt. James T Kirk

Captain Crunch
Sgt. Vince Carter
Colonel Klink
Chief Wild Eagle of the Hekawi
Colonel Sanders

[Brigid]

29. What, nobody has mentioned Colin Powell yet?

He would be instructive as to what happens if you get too cozy with any one political party -- you get screwed.

[RoadRage]

30. Colin Powell!!

That'd be my vote anyway.

[NJmaverick]

68. That would be my choice

[Stuart G]

32. He is unusual, but counts..Sitting Bull

[cemaphonic]

35. Or Chief Joseph

who was ultimately defeated, but in the meantime fought a textbook retreat from superior forces.

[edbermac]

33. General Motors or Colonel Sanders.

But seriously, how about Gen MacArthur?

[JonLP24]

36. I strongly recommend Smedley Butler

Please! :)

[spindrifter]

39. David Petraeus

She can write about the Anaconda Strategy and how his revamping of military strategy has worked and the problems she still foresees with implementing it.

[Aristus]

40. Saladin.

Or Salah Al-Din.

A great warrior and a great man. Throughout the whole tawdry, sordid saga of The Crusades, he was about the only military leader who behaved with honor. A deeply civilized, well-educated, honorable and compassionate man. He did order the execution of prisoners, but only in retaliation for indefensible behavior by Christian crusaders.

[cemaphonic]

47. yes, good call

A couple more Turks:

Mehmet II, who managed to successfully besiege Constantinople

Babur - Founder of the Mughal Empire in India. Defeated a force 5-10x larger than his own at the battle of Panipat though some very canny strategy and one of the earliest known uses of field artillery.

[Mixopterus]

70. Not really

He loved slavery, like most of the Muslim aristocracy, and he repeatedly got his ass handed to him up and down the Holy Land. He was also not particularly honorable, probably about the same as any Christian or Muslim leader.

Most of the positive attributes we give Saladin are from the English accounts, and several hundred years later (during the Victorian era), as the scholars of the time did some hefty historical revisionism to make the middle ages and medieval Europeans look as bad as they possibly can to further their delusions of a linear progression of society.

[madeline_con]

84. I'd so like to read that report, and see the teacher's reaction.

Sometimes, they get excited about "religious content." :shrug:

[rabs]

42. Dwight D. Eisenhower

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military/industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

Farewell speech, 1961

[GOPisEvil]

43. A plug for James Earl Rudder.

Leader of "Rudder's Rangers" who landed on Pointe du Hoc on D-Day and held it against furious counterattacks. He later became president of my alma mater, Texas A&M, and led it into a more modern era by making the Corps of Cadets voluntary and admitting women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Earl_Rudder

[BlueCollar]

44. Lt. General William Slim

from the largely forgotten war in Burma...1941-1945

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Slim,_1st_Viscount_Slim


Military historian Max Hastings:

"In contrast to almost every other outstanding commander of the war, Slim was a disarmingly normal human being, possessed of notable self-knowledge. He was without pretension, devoted to his wife, Aileen, their family and the Indian Army. His calm, robust style of leadership and concern for the interests of his men won the admiration of all who served under him ... His blunt honesty, lack of bombast and unwillingness to play courtier did him few favours in the corridors of power. Only his soldiers never wavered in their devotion".<50>


edit to add quote

[abq e streeter]

45. another vote for Smedley Butler.

[abq e streeter]

46. or...Major Lance, and General Johnson

General Johnson was the real name of the guy who recorded as Chairman of the Board ( Give Me Just a Little More Time), and Major Lance of course did Monkey Time...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

48. Marcus Aurelius

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Aurelius

Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus (26 April 121 – 17 March 180) was Roman emperor from 161 to his death in 180. He ruled with Lucius Verus as co-emperor from 161 until Lucius' death in 169. He was the last of the "Five Good Emperors", and is also considered one of the most important Stoic philosophers. His tenure was marked by wars in Asia against a revitalized Parthian Empire, and with Germanic tribes along the Limes Germanicus into Gaul and across the Danube. A revolt in the East, led by Avidius Cassius who previously fought under Lucius Verus against the Parthians, failed.
Marcus Aurelius' work Meditations, written in Greek while on campaign between 170 and 180, is still revered as a literary monument to a government of service and duty.

[TxRider]

49. Khaled bin al-waleed, seriously.

A little wiki paste (I'm lazy sue me)

He has the distinction of being undefeated in over a hundred battles, against the numerically superior forces of the Byzantine Roman Empire, Sassanid Persian Empire, and their allies.

His strategic achievements include the conquest of Persian Mesopotamia and Roman Syria within three years from 633 to 636. He is also remembered for his decisive victories at Yamamah, Walaja, Ullais, Firaz and Yarmouk.

His last words on his death bed are recorded to be...

"I fought in so many battles seeking martyrdom that there is no place in my body but have a stabbing scar by a spear, a sword or a dagger, and yet here I am, dying on my bed like an old camel dies. May the eyes of the cowards never sleep."

[proteus_lives]

51. Napoleon is an oldie but a goodie.

Or Wellington.

[MilesColtrane]

52. MacArthur

Good example of no matter how respected one is in the U.S. military, or how far you travel up the chain of command, you still ultimately answer to a civilian commander-in-chief.

And, of course the folly of hubris.

[TreasonousBastard]

53. Cincinnatus, or, for something completely different...

von Manstein, possibly the best strategic thinker in WWII, but largely unknown because he spent most of his time on the Russian front. For that matter, Marshall Zhukov spent a lot of time on the Russian front, too, was a very smart guy, and eventually kicked the Germans out.

(For a study in darkness, there's always MacArthur.)

[fNord]

54. Emiliano Zapata....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emiliano_Zapata

[Taitertots]

57. The Prophet Mohamed

[elleng]

58. Wes Clark

Research here:
http://securingamerica.com/

[old mark]

59. Chesty Puller, USMC. former Commandant of the Marine Corps, who

commanded a brigade in WWII on Guadalcanal and radioed his HQ, "We are surrounded by superior forces on all sides. They can't get away from us now!"
Hi force held out against repeated Japanese attacks, and broke the attacking force, and saved the American hold on that island.

He was very much a fighting man, not a politician, yet rose to command the Marine Corps.

mark

[jmowreader]

61. Good or bad?

Fuck it. Write the damn thing on Custer. That would take care of the "bad" side of the equation.

A good military leader? Lucius Clay, architect of the Berlin Airlift.

[jacko_be]

62. why not marx, or hitler they are easy to find stuff on

[Aristus]

67. Because neither one was a military leader. Karl Marx was a political philosopher for

a system of belief that advocates absolute pacifism. And Hitler, as a soldier, could hardly be considered a leader. He rose no further than the German rank of corporal, which in American military terms, is roughly equivalent to Private First Class. And as Fuhrer, he got lucky with some daring (or reckless) moves early on, and then became a disastrous military meddler.

Marx, Hitler, and a low post count. I smell a troll...

[jacko_be]

69. wel my dear, i'm just 2 days on this site

and hitler was the fuhrer much like the president or king
is the leader of all armed forces... and marx sorry
little error. maybe stalin ? or trotski

[Aristus]

74. I owe you an apology then. If you're here for long enough, you'll understand why we at DU

get suspicious when someone comes on talking of Marx or Hitler, and sporting a very low post count. They often turn out to be trolls from DU's ultra-conservative opposite number, trying to stir up trouble. If you are a genuine progressive or liberal, then welcome! :-) And I apologize to you for my suspicions. You didn't deserve that, and I hope you'll forgive me.

[jacko_be]

75. I am a progressive liberal

don't worry i've heard it before

[Hayabusa]

63. Kitiara Uth Mater, Dragon Highlord...

Seriously, though? I agree with the posters who said Sitting Bull or Chief Joseph.

[AngryAmish]

64. Tamerlane

No one else will.

[Kutjara]

66. Boudicca, the Celtic warrior queen.

Fought for her people and land against the Romans.

[Mixopterus]

72. You could also do Hovhannes Bagramyan

He was there for nearly every major operation in the Eastern Front of WW2 and served a critical function in Operation Bagration, arguably the most successful and largest of offensives in World War 2

[Mixopterus]

73. Clausewitz

If she wants mega bonus points use Clausewitz. He's considered the basis for modern warfare, and his book is required reading for officers (IIRC).

His book is huge and rather dry, but a summary of his theory should be easy to obtain and I THINK his work is in the public domain if you want to skim it.

[darkstar3]

77. How has no one mentioned Agrippa?

Responsible for one of the greatest classical victories Rome ever had, and a statesman to boot.

[Common Sense Party]

89. What about Hannibal? Or Alexander the Great?

Lots of oldies and goodies.

[krispos42]

78. Admiral Spruance (WW2, Pacific) might be interesting

Or Fleet Admiral Nimitz... he was in charge of the Pacific Fleet in World War Two.



Commander Richard O'Kane was the CO of the submarine USS Tang during World War Two in the Pacific. He wrote a memoir about his time on her entitled "Clear the Bridge!: The War Patrols of the USS Tang" that I recall was pretty good reading. It describes in detail many of the attacks the sub made against Japanese shipping.

The Tang wound up getting sunk by her own torpedo on her 5th and last war patrol... the rudder jammed hard-over as it came out of the tube, did a tight circle, and *boom*. The survivers spend about a year in a Japanese prison camp.

He stayed in the Navy and retired a Rear Admiral. He's something of a legend among the sumbarine community. They keep his personal cribbage board on the oldest submarine in the Fleet; when the sub retires the cribbage board moves to the "new" oldest sub.

[tekisui]

81. I like General Eric Shinseki.

He didn't "go along to get along." He spoke truth and it cost him is job. then, he was rewarded for his honor with a cabinet position.

[Scout]

82. Boudicca n/t

[Quantess]

85. I would choose Pol Pot.

Or Idi Amin.

[qnr]

86. Oliver North? She can get credit & annoy her parents simultaneously! :) n/t

[Parche]

87. Hey

I am a history buff, pacific 1941-1945 mostly,
if she needs help, let me know PM me if you want
i have tons of info on that subject

:hi:

[Common Sense Party]

88. Ender

n/t

[SKKY]

91. Grace Hopper would probably be the most interesting...

...But I could give you 10 that would be good as well.

[jrandom421]

93. Here's a few of my favs

Scipio Africanus
Belesarius
John Churchill, Lord Marlborough
King Gustavus Adophus
Fredrick the Great
Turenne`
Any one of Napoleon's Marshals like Lannes, Soult, or Grouchy

More recently:

Allenby
Foch
Haig
Kitchener
Gordon
Von Manstein
O'Connor
Slim
Yamamoto
Budenny
Skorzny
Collins
Von Luck
Rommel
Auchinleck
Ridgeway
Giap
Hal Moore

[regnaD kciN]

94. I'd go with Lieutenant Kijé, myself...

:evilgrin:

[Mendocino]

95. Geronimo

Robert Rodgers (Rodgers Rangers)

George Thomas

Ethan Allen

"Mad" Anthony Wayne

Tecumseh

Oliver Hazard Perry

Billy Mitchell