I Think I Must be Very Naive

[Nuclear Unicorn]

I'm a pacifist, an idealist...some may even say bleeding heart liberal.

I believe that if we set aside our acculturated urges to seperate ourselves by race, gender, sex, sexual orientation, creed, etc (I'll call it tribalism for shorthand) then we won't be at each others' throat because we won't see each other as the other but as part of us and if we aren't at each others' throat then we can dedicate our proecious time, resources and energies to important things like eradicating poverty, diease etc.

I don't even begrudge capitalists; I understand them. They see the world in tribalist terms and as such they want to ensure the survival and prosperity of their tribe even if at the expense of other tribes. Face facts: they are very good at what they do and they view their successes as validation of their techniques. In other words, they won't argue with success. OK fine, I get it. I don't like it. I think it is very lacking in vision and a greater ethic but at least I understand it the same way I understand crushing poverty leads some people to stealing, selling drugs or even selling their own bodies. Capitalists sell their souls.

But every soul is precious.

When I look at the world I am all but brought to tears by the conjured wars and missed opportunities. Look at the devastation. The torn bodies, the empty bellies, the hearts cut by the pain of what the eyes have witnessed (this recently became very personal for me). How can anyone claiming to be human not be moved?

I do not understand what drives us to be at each others throats. What started it? What perpetuates it?

I saw progressivism as the antidote, the salve, the healing hand. So I sought out progressives.

But what I found was petty squabbling, acrimony and even calls of violence. What I cannot understand is why here--on DU--there is so much nastiness and hostility. I can't even go to the political forums because I see fellow progressives acting in some of the most sexist, homophobic and aggressive ways towards fellow progressives. I see calls for uprisings, cacklings about when the hated RW'ers shall be driven from our midst.

Nevermind the fact that these voices are proposing their uprisings against RW'ers who have religious zeal, lots of guns and have turned the exploitation of resources and military sciences into an art (read: suicide for us) but when the anti-Iraq war protests started we waved signs that said "Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity" It's still true. Just because its a bunch of RW'ers doesn't mean an armed struggle still won't be harmful to children and other living things.

But what about each other? Why can't we even discuss matters amongst ourselves without the hatred so often on display? It's downright vulgar. Why should any moderate or winger even look at this forum and not say, "Wow! Them cats are angry." How can we pretend to offer the world peace if we hate our own with such vehemence?

Please. I'm asking you. Before the next time you hit the "post message" button ask yourself: Am I being the peacemaker? Am I speaking from truth or just for ego? Am I adding to my brother/sister or just tearing them down?

I admit I'm not perfect. Please be my friend and help me and I'll be your friend and try to help you.

We HAVE to do this together because I fear our time is running out before we cast ourselves into a hole we will not be able to climb back out of.

Thank-you for your time.

[Deep13]

1. Will Rogers once analogized Democrats to alley cats.

Based on the noise they make, it sounds like they are killing each other. In fact, they are just making more Democrats.

I know you are talking about progressives specifically and not necessarily Democrats, but I think it is still true. I'm not denying what you say, but I think we should always draw a distinction between vigorous and even angry disagreement on the one hand and hatred on the other.

The problem with the armed struggle observation is that on one level the right has already started one. Or rather continued one that began with anti-abolitionist and anti-labor union violence years ago. Armed men at Presidential appearances, incitement to violence by media talking heads and Evangelical preachers, the murder of doctors, the lynching of gays and people losing their jobs because their political views. People who abhor violence cannot be blamed for wanting to push back. Hopefully, average citizens and reasonable office holders are as offended by this as we are and will use the law and the power of the purse to end it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. War was not invented in 1860

[Deep13]

6. I meant violence as a response to reasonable criticism.

I'm sure that has existed since antiquity too. Socrates comes to mind. Still, the American variety can be traced to that, although even then maybe saying it began then might be understating the problem.

[proteus_lives]

8. Please explain that.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. The things that drive conservatives...and indeed tribalism in general

are not sudden phenomenon. I'm not picking on the other poster, I'm just pressing harder for the deeper answer.

To say the conservaties we're dealing with are civil war holdovers misses the facts. Maybe they did resist abolition but only because they first embraced slavery which itself was born centuries before when one tribe kept captives those of opposing tribes they conquered...perhaps even in a war of self-defense.

No, what we're dealing with is much older anti-abolitionist reactionaries. We're dealing with the fallout of one cave family robbing another cave family of its sacred fire when it could have been shared.

But that is a side issue. It's the abject hostility that is tolerated here between members.

When someone says, "F*** you! You're an idiot freeper and you don't know what you're...and I'm smarter than you and...you hate....blah blah blah" then the other side gets defense and responds in kind.

What's wrong with saying, "Please, try to understan, we're here for this together. Perhaps I can help clarify..."

Alert and ignore buttons get pressed, threads get locked, accounts get deleted.

And we're supposed to be the peace activists?!?!?

I see lots of activity but so very little peace. I want peace. Let it start with me.

[MissMillie]

2. Usually the answer is...

I do not understand what drives us to be at each others throats. What started it? What perpetuates it?

Fear, and an inability to look at life as anything but a zero-sum game.

People fear that if someone else gets something, it must be at their expense.

[Capn Sunshine]

4. I'll add to that

Exploitation of fear because of greed. There's HUGE money in WAR.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. But what about US?

When do we lead from the front--as the saying goes--especially amid those who are supposed to be our ideological peers?

[ipfilter]

7. This forum is really more about political activism.

The idea here to promote a social and political change. The underlying motive is to undermine and bring down the conservative ideals that we don't agree with. On this level, I see mostly a consensus on DU. The fighting takes place where we disagree on the ideas and how to implement them in place of conservatism.

There's also a group of malcontents who like to argue, but those exist on any forum.