Another reason not to buy a SUV...

[Deja Q]

I was coming home from work. On 94, traffic was jammed. People were trying to get into the left-hand lanes because of what had happened just beyond the right lane to involve 3 police cars, 1 fire truck, 1 ambulance, and 500000000 pissed drivers...

I saw many people behind me use the shoulder to go around. I wanted to do the same, but with the occasional fire or cop car going, it just wasn't ethical to do so. Glad I didn't...

When it was my turn, 4 people immediately sped past me.

A van, from Wisconsin, had some old guy with a long beard and his grotesque family, looking at me shaking their heads slowly! :grr: :mad: (What's my bumpersticker? "Hang up and drive", "I brake for tailgaters", 6 colored dots - each representing one color of a rainbow, and "Linux" - yeah, I'm really annoying other drivers with those. :eyes: ) Damn uncivilized pigs, how about the 25000000 people behind me who also want to get over so they can get home too... damn inconsiderate savages. So I gave them the finger through my opened sunroof, as honking my horn would have not have been a good idea at the time.

Anyway, what was the accident?

A SUV, no shock there...

A SUV that must have swerved off the road to the right beyond the shoulder, had rolled over the ravine a couple of times, had flipped upside down, and ended up facing the opposite direction. A perfect pic for a perfect editorial, SUVs are known for being easy to roll over...

Now I HAD a digital camera with me. Unfortunately I clicked too soon and by the time the save was finished, I'd JUST MISSED the ideal spot. The pic I'd taken was a tad blurry anyway. Oh well.

I turned around when I finally got to the next exit (5 minutes later) and went the other way. BY then, there was a tow truck pulling the hunk of junk, so I couldn't get a pic. DAMN.

I hope the driver was all right, but WTF was he doing to end up in such a nasty situation?

Case in point? Be conscientious of yourself, others, and unrenewable resources: Avoid SUVs, even if President Pinprick* wants to give you a tax break for owning one. It would be less costly to build Suicide Booths... And those are what SUVs are: Mobile Suicide Booths.

[kalian]

1. Well....

today...I watched this "moran" fuel up his Ford "Excursion"...
I paid $1.89/gal. Filled up my tank for 20 bucks...
The idiot was well past 40 BUCKS! and still filling up when I left.

THAT, IMHO, is the number one reason not to get a friggin,
gas-guzzling SUV POS. :mad:

[Dark Angel]

2. HE PAYS FOR IT

He PAYS for the gas.

If we're going to talk about gas and crude oil, John Kerry is currently flying a private plane. I'm sure that uses a lot of energy. More than, say, just buying coach seats. If we're going to talk about massive use of oil, perhaps we shouldn't single out SUV drivers. I'm not bashing John Kerry. I just don't understand the hatred of SUV drivers. Some of us actually use our vehicles for work, you know. Not everyone lives on perfectly level terrain.

Ok, that's all I wanted to say.

Let the bashing continue.

[kalian]

4. Taking something like this personal....

is not going to get you anywhere.
The issue is: the vast MAJORITY of SUV drivers do NOT use their
vehicles for work. That being said, leanr to separate yourself from
the issue...

[Dark Angel]

6. Whatever

SUV hater. Your hatred is so illogical.

I also see that you did not address the private plane issue.

[kalian]

8. Yup...I'm a PROUD SUV HATER....

Live with it.

Because ALL politicos will have their toys. They don't care about
YOU nor about me. We continue to use these monstrosities, we continue
to rely on FOREIGN oil. We continue to participate in ILLEGAL wars.
We continue to get presidents like shrub... Get the picture?

[Dark Angel]

9. You also didn't address my point

Why aren't you going after private plane use? A plane uses much more oil than an SUV.

I didn't support the war. Owning an SUV does not mean that you support the war. That's just illogical. OPEC would have been more likely to increase the supply of oil to meet our demand IF we had NOT gone to war. That's my guess.

[Dark Angel]

11. Some cars don't get great mileage either

Lexuses are not known for great mileage.

Neither are high-horsepower sports cars.

[analogman]

24. Wait 'til gas hits $2 a gallon this summer

When soccer mom starts paying $50 to $60 a week to fill up these beheamoths they'll start getting the picture.

[kalian]

26. Unfortunately they won't....

the media will be spinning "price gouging", problems in Iraq,
problems in Venezuela (this is going to be the big one...), etc
ad nauseum.

Remember: we Americans have the right to cheap oil... :eyes:

[analogman]

36. Our oil IS cheap..

Compared to what they're paying in Europe for gasoline we're getting it for a steal.

[Intelsucks]

49. This is true. They pay ~2.5 times as much as we do here.

n/t

[HydroAddict]

10. I tell ya why...

Barring the ecological complicity's, I hate SUV's because of how wide they are.

When parked in a lot, both wheels extend to the left and right guide lines, leaving NO room for passengers in other cars to get out. Or for them to get out w/o a dinging someone else's car.

When on a multi-lane highway, you're forced to change lanes to see beyond the behemoth mobile.

I finally convinced my sister to get rid of her 2002 Tahoe S71 monster mobile. She's now driving a cute little convertible VW bug (turbo).

[Dark Angel]

12. Yeah

And when someone hits her VW with a bigger car, SMACK! Little cars are not exactly safety spheres either.

[Intelsucks]

This is off the subject, but how did your trip to San Antonio go?

Were you able to find the places you were looking for?

[HydroAddict]

38. Awesome. Kerry was great. The place was over packed.

The parking garage was less than 1/4 mile of the rally. Ended up being about 3 hours early. We got a great spot on the bleachers.

Ended up staying there for awhile.

Thanks for asking!

[Intelsucks]

43. Cool. Glad it worked out for you.

n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

55. My BF calls it an EXTRUSION...

LOL Which is what it is. God those things are ugly...
Duckie

[IronLionZion]

3. It doesn't take much to roll an SUV

a friend of mine just went a little into the grass on the side of the road and rolled his Jeep. He's fine btw. but now he drives a Mitsubishi Galant. He won't even ride in an SUV ever again.

[midnight armadillo]

48. That's due to their instability

When SUVs hit a soft shoulder they tend to "stumble" and roll, especially at speed.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dark Angel]

7. Besides,

if these people are such scum, wouldn't you want them to be in "suicide booths"? That way they can just off themselves, right?

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. My parents own an SUV. YukonXL. I don't hate them, I hate their

car and I think they are incredibly selfish for it. They understand, we've moved on. :hi:

[kalian]

14. My point exactly....

the problem is that the poster is taking this whole thing too
personally. Too bad really.

[Dark Angel]

16. too bad for you

Logic always helps with arguments. :(

[Dark Angel]

15. I really don't understand the suv hatred

I see you live in Michigan. You've probably seen the devastation of the auto industry, partly because of people buying foreign cars. Some of the people who buy foreign cars are the same people who rail against SUVs(most of which are made by American companies).

Give me an Expedition over a Porsche anyday.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. I live in Michigan, where most people realize that most cars are made

from parts that come from overseas. There is no true American Made car anymore. NAFTA has seen to that. The automotive industry was destroyed long before. My husband works for a 1st tier supplier and he'll tell you the same thing. We own a Dodge Caravan BTW. :hi:

[Dark Angel]

18. True,

but the UAW is not represented in some foreign automakers' plants. :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. My husband is represented by the UAW either.

:)

[Dark Angel]

23. That's too bad

It seems some care more about the environment than organized labor, supporting increases in automotive mileage for example, which the UAW opposes. I care about the environment, too, but if it comes down to jobs vs the environment, jobs come first in my book. Maybe I'm just partial to the UAW, because I chill with them at their union hall.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. Maybe, but there are lots of automotive workers out there who don't

have even that. I care about jobs as well. But I care about leaving a worthwhile earth to my children just a little bit more. :hi:

[Dark Angel]

29. What good is a worthwhile earth

if you don't have food and shelter? You need a job to get those things, or a kinder government.

The environment has survived for billions of years. It can survive for more.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. Automotive production is on type of employment. There are many types

of jobs. If we car about the environment, we kick GM in the a$$ to get moving on it's protype electric cars(which it's been purposely dragging it's feet on for self serving economical reasons by the way). End of problem. Jobs kept, environment safe. The environment survived because we haven't been on it for long. Look what's happened in our short stay. A hole in the ozone layer cannot possibly be a good thing.

I'm voting for the kinder goverment by the way.

[Dark Angel]

42. Well

They're not mutually exclusive(kinder government and environmental protection, that is) :)

American auto companies are having huge problems with health care costs and environmental regulations. If we improved our health care system and lowered costs, they might be able to get moving on some of the things you want. :)

[Dark Angel]

19. And it's not like the Caravan gets great mileage

That van is pretty big, and the mpg rating on it is probably only about 20 in the city. Some SUV's can get 15-16, so it's not that big of a difference.

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. Our van gets 28 on the highway. 25 in the city, which is pretty decent

and better than buying a large size vehicle. Believe me, I did my homework on cars that would fit our family needs. I carpool 5 kids. :hi:

[Dark Angel]

28. What year is it?

the 2003 caravan MPG, for example, looks like this.

MPG: City/Hwy
4: 19 / 24
6: 18 / 24

4 and 6 are number of cylinders of course.

I got the specs from here.

http://www.new-cars.com/2003/2003-dodge-caravan.html

Pretty similar to what I said. Around 20 in the city. I don't know what Caravan you have, but the manufacturer rates it at 20. If we are going to be consistent, and your car gets 25 in the city, then the Ford Explorer, which is rated at 15 in the city, may well get 19 or 20 mpg in the city. :)

Alls I know is that those are the manufacturer ratings. I seem to remember reading that in a consumer reports issue last year, too. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. 2000. I can email my travel logs to you (my husband's a bit anal about

gas mileage) if you want. ;)

[Dark Angel]

35. Well, yeah.

Maybe the manufacturer rated them too low. And mileage does vary on individual cars. If that's the case, and it applies to Dodge SUV's too, then some of them are probably getting close to 20 mpg in the city though. 20 mpg is hardly bad. It's not great, but it's not bad either.

That's why I don't understand the SUV hatred. Like I said above, private planes use a lot more crude oil than SUV's. I'm not faulting John Kerry for using one. I'm a big supporter of his, and I'm also a big "energy hog", admittedly.

I'm just looking for consistency. Voters don't like extremism, some of which is being displayed on this thread. :)

By the way, Gore lost west virginia because of the environmental issues related to coal. I firmly believe that. If he had softened his stances a bit, we might not have had the trouble during the past 3 years.

[ScreamingMeemie]

40. Well I don't hate you for it. Even if I'm not a fan of it. Heck I still

have dinner with my parents. Friends?

:hi:

[Dark Angel]

50. Of course

By the way, I drive a Ford Windstar. I just have a lot of friends with SUVs. I'm looking to trade my Windstar in for an Aurora, though, which gets about the same mileage that the Windstar does. :)

Of course we're friends. I don't hate anyone on here.....yet....

Just kidding! Friends. :P

[Offshore Bush]

21. Why are you so defensive?

This is the LOUNGE forum! Cheer the hell up! Do you pray to the god of SUVs before going to bed or what?

[Dark Angel]

25. No

Do you pray to the god of SUV haters before going to bed?

It was a stupid ranting post, and I responded in kind.

Your stupid insults get you nowhere.

[camero]

30. I do

The SUV hating god gave me a Camaro. :D

[Dark Angel]

32. The Camaro is not exactly "earth-friendly", either.

It's not getting 50 mpg, is it? Don't think so.

By the way, you spelled "camaro" wrong. ;-)

[camero]

34. Well I'm not gonna run anybody over

or roll over anytime soon. And I get close to 30 mpg. Alot better than an SUV.

The spelling police left me a long time ago.

[Dark Angel]

37. I'm not the spelling police

I was just wondering why you spelled it that way.

[camero]

41. Coulda fooled me

:D

BTW, I did misspell it riginally but someone already had that username so I kept this.

[Dark Angel]

Nice editing job :D

Lol, I gotcha.

By the way, if sports cars are so much safer than SUV's, why does it cost so much more to insure them? I have an idea why. Maybe, it's because when people get behind the wheel of a sports car, they feel that it's okay to do 90 mph on the interstate, and that rapidly increases their chances of having an accident. SUV rates are nowhere near the rates of insuring a good sports car, especially for younger drivers, but it applies to drivers who are 25+ also. :)

[camero]

46. Speed is not the sole cause of accidents

though you have a point there. SUV drivers are more likely to drive aggressively and take curves too fast, contributing to the roll-over accidents.

[Dark Angel]

47. I've seen lots of totaled sports cars too

And totaled smaller cars. I've seen vans hit smaller cars and do some real damage. Like a Dodge Caravan running into a Toyota Prius, maybe? :P

[camero]

51. I've seen just about everything.

Over 1 million miles under my belt and have seen all you describe. But the SUV haters do have a point about vehicle safety and the size differential as a major cause of fatalities in vehicle accidents.

It's like putting an untrained driver behind the wheel of a semi. I've seen too much of that also.

[Dark Angel]

53. That's not a case to ban SUV's

That's a case to increase the difficulty of getting a drivers license, especially for younger people, who are disproportionately involved in motor vehicle accidents.

We should also make people take a road test once a year after they hit age 70. Not because I hate senior citizens or anything, I love most of them, but because they also are disproportionately involved in motor vehicle accidents, and often times, their coordination is not so hot. I don't really think this will happen though, because who votes more than senior citizens? No one. :P

[Dark Angel]

56. 1 million miles, huh?

How did you manage that?

How many years have you driven?

Let's say that you're 40 years old and so you've driven for ~25 years. Let's say that you drove 100 miles a day, average, which is a pretty liberal estimate, I'd say, and you did that for 365 days every year. It would take you about 30 years to get to that point? That doesn't add up.

You actually drove more than that on average per day? :shrug:

[camero]

57. I drove a semi

A car for 20 yrs(I'm 36) averaging almost 30, 000 miles a year.
A rig for 6 years averaging 130,000 miles a year. I also drove a taxi for 2 years.

14 car years= 420,000 miles
6 rig years= 780,000 miles

[Dark Angel]

58. Ah, professional driver.

That explains it. :) I thought it was either that or your math was wrong.

It was more profitable back then to be a truck driver than it is now. :(

[camero]

59. Before Bush yes

When fuel costs rise, you can't pass it on because of the mega-trucking companies. You have to eat it.

[Dark Angel]

39. Sometimes the extremists on this issue

seem as bad as the fundamentalists who request abortion records of women.

Like, it's none of your business, dude. Find other things to worry about, dude.

[camero]

44. I wouldn't request thier records

But I would make them get a CDL. Larger and top-heavy vehicles should require special training to be driven.

[Dark Angel]

45. That's fine with me

There's nothing wrong with licensing guns or licensing SUV drivers. I just don't think it's right to BAN the SUVs. They do serve legitimate purposes, you know. Lots of police departments own SUVs, for example, including the one here.

As for the abortion issue, I apologize for taking it off topic, but the licensing of doctors to perform abortions is enough for me. They're the "drivers" of the maternal car, if you will.

[Offshore Bush]

52. It was a damn joke.

Jesus H. Christ, what's wrong with you?

I hate SUVs, but I'm not going to pick a fight over it.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[avb7]

60. How can anyone "hate" a vehicle?

That is too weird for me. I've driven SUV's for nine years but I don't "love" them.

[absyntheNsugar]

61. Not all SUV's are created equal

The Honda CRV for example gets good mileage under any circumstances - 25-30 MPG. This is as good as the Accord or Camry. I know there are even better mileages out there. Also, Honda has plans for a Hybrid SUV that will get 40-50 MPG.

The Hummer on the other hand, I see no excuse for. It eats gas, is uncomfortable, looks like a short bus for the special kids and is only practical if you are fighting a war. Now I know there are bad roads in this country, and sometimes an all-terrain vehicle is what you need - but unless you are launching a full scale invasion of Topeka HUMMERS ARE F'N USELESS!!!!!

[jmowreader]

62. The H2 is useless even if you are invading Topeka

It is a GM half-ton truck chassis with an ugly-ass body on it. Compared with some of the other uses of this chassis, the H2 has no cargo capacity--the only reason to buy a truck.

What would be wonderful is if they'd come up with the H3 on the GM compact-truck (S-10) chassis. All the ugliness and shitty ride of the Hummer in a truck you could actually park.