Dawn of the Dead is an incredible, political movie.

[thingfish]

See it in theaters! It's BRILLIANT!!!

[rumguy]

1. political?

explain

[scarletwoman]

3. The zombies were all republicans?

:shrug:

sw

[gyopsy]

5. No way political

I think this is a joke. It's nothing more than an over-hyped monster movie.

[thingfish]

6. I don't want to give too much away. The original was a broad satire...

...more macro-political, examining "the system" - or capitalist consumerism - and its ill effects.

This remake is more micro-political. It takes as a given that "the system" is morally and spiritually bankrupt, an evolutionary dead end, and focuses instead on various aspects of human nature by examining them in the light of a horrendous catastrophe.

This movie is about a reckoning that's coming, that we may already be living through. It's about the elastic nature of good and evil, conflict resolution, democracy, cooperation, the consequences of isolationism... Damn. I'm still shaken by it.

It's a serious and profound work of art, the first horror masterpiece of the twenty-first century.

[rumguy]

8. holy shit - you make it sound like a masterwork

everyone else here is panning it.

I thought 28 Days Later was great with social implications to it...

[thingfish]

9. I think, as is the case with any strong work of art, reactions are strong.

Often, people confronted with powerful art resent that art for one reason or another. In this case, I can imagine someone resenting Dawn of the Dead for showing them a visual/metaphorical/allegorical aproximation of the tribulation we're enduring. And of course, the violence is brutal and shocking. The first ten minutes alone... ferocious. This one leaves 28 Days Later in the dust on all levels.

[rumguy]

12. this review seems to back you up

"It's maybe the first slasher/zombie/splatter horror flick that feels like a part of the post-9/11 world, full of a chaotic, why-me panic and, at the same time, a kind of relief, like: Okay, this is it, the other shoe has dropped, I can let go that breath I've been holding for years. It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. But not a good fine: an in-denial fine. A shell-shocked fine.

It feels real."

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/movie-1130898/reviews.php?critic=columns&sortby=default&page=4&rid=1264344

[rumguy]

14. more

" So in place of the satire is a tireless reality -- we come in in the middle of the story and we leave it... well, let's just say nothing wraps up neatly enough for you to leave feeling too optimistic about the state of the world. Even the few ironic laughs are acrid, like the American flag waving majestically in the breeze of a ravaged world, a symbol of confidence -- or arrogance -- made immediately obsolete in the almost instantaneous collapse of civilization. And the mall... it becomes something of a bittersweet symbol of all things suddenly lost -- from baby clothes to soy lattes -- to the gang assembled there."

It does sound good.

[Stevendsmith]

11. I think you're reading waaay too much into the movie!

I saw it today and enjoyed it quite a bit, but a profound work of art? Deep political commentary? You're shaken by it?

As Freud said, "Sometimes, madame, a cigar is just a cigar."

[thingfish]

15. I'll collect my thoughts into a comprehensive review...

...and post it here when it's done. Hopefully, my arguments will be more convincing when they're presented in a less conversational, more formal way.

[Occulus]

2. I saw it tonight

just got home, in fact.

I wasted my money.

[cjm2222]

4. Me too

I didn't like it at all. I thought it was, in fact, quite stupid and I am very much ashamed that I paid to see it. That's time I'll never get back.

[thingfish]

7. One takes from a work of art what one is capable of taking from it.

Calling it stupid is uncalled for, and probably says more about you than about the film.

[Occulus]

10. While I will agree that

the camera tricks were used nicely and the makeup was quite well done, there was no plot. There was, in the end, nothing for the main characters to do. Their story was just one of the tens of millions being played out in the film's mythos.

I really wish the movie had instead dealt with why the dead were walking the Earth, and maybe introduce a way to stop it. That would have made the movie much more interesting.

[thingfish]

13. But my God man, that's the WHOLE POINT!!!

How do YOU feel right now? You don't feel alienated from the system into which you were born? You don't feel like the nation that was your birthright is slipping through your fingers for reasons you don't quite understand, and about which there's (barely) anything you can do but try to hold on and ride it out?

[Stevendsmith]

16. Again, I liked the movie quite a bit

But this grand socio-political read your giving this albeit quality horror flick is a bit silly. It reminds me of the overblown and undeserved reception of "The Matrix" as a some great philosophical event. I mean, no offense, but dude it's just a movie. You seem to be a thoughtful and intelligent person. There are deeper artistic/political statements out there to be be engaged than "Dawn of the Dead."

[thingfish]

18. People underestimate the quality and subtext often present in genre films.

I think that's a shame.

[Stevendsmith]

27. I agree with that

But I also think there is a tendency among some individuals to look for subtext where none or very little evidence of one exists. Now, admittedly, I've never been great at teasing out subtexts, and you might be onto something with your read of Dawn of the Dead. But you could also be engaging in an overwrought analysis of this movie. I think you're projecting too much of your own values onto the director.

[Occulus]

21. It's been my assumption for quite some time

that in any major, serious emergency of national or planetary impact, we, The People, would largely be left to fend for ourselves unless we went with the 'official' instructions, which are really a crapshoot at best. I'm not saying that we don't deserve better, but in a nation of hundreds of millions of people, most of us would likely be left to our fates.

That's a cold, brutal truth, now, isn't it? It's a good reason to have a tight network of friends. It's also a good reason to have the materials to go camping, for an extended period.

Remember the movie Armageddon? People weren't told until some time after the asteroid was spotted. Eventually, the news was reported, but in the meantime, nobody knew.

Now, extrapolate that. Suppose there was definitely going to be a global Event. Would it be smart to inform the world that we're all about to die? Hell no. It would be 'considerate.' Some would say, it would be moral. But if it were to be done, there would be mindless panic all over the world.

Would I prefer I were informed? Yes. Do I expect to be? No. I guess you just have to ask yourself if there are any circumstances in which you would prefer to remain ignorant of your fate. Too much truth, after all, has driven men mad.

[thingfish]

22. These very questions are all examined (not just portrayed) in DotD.

Compellingly. Convincingly. I think it's great cinema.

[Occulus]

25. Examined?

No. Briefly addressed? Yes. They turn back to that point periodically. I ended up thinking, "What are these idiots expecting? The military? The National Guard?"

I guess maybe what you're referring to is how people react in a situation over which they have no control. That's the major theme of Scare Tactics. I guess if you want you could praise the film for subtly bringing that up.

I just wish there had been a bit more explained. It spread through the bites; they established that early on, but then didn't do much with it. Such a great plot device, and it was utterly wasted.

[cjm2222]

17. If you think DotD is a work of art

then that explains a lot about you, my friend. It was a dull film with huge plotholes. I do tend to like intelligent films. My mistake was assuming this one would be a bit creative.

[thingfish]

19. Name some of your favorite movies, and why.

Maybe when I understand what you mean by "intelligent" and "creative," we'll be able to conduct a more fruitful dialogue.

[cjm2222]

28. Sure

I loved the original "Dawn of the Dead". I think George R. is incredibly creative. I've heard he's written a script called "Twilight of the Dead" which I would see. I also like "Blade Runner", "Alien" and almost anything by the Coen Bros. I also love the movie "Brotherhood of the Wolf"--an excellent film I highly recommend.

My problem with "Dawn of the Dead" 2004 is the plot and the blatant rip-off of other movies (such as Cannibal Holocaust). I think the film was thin and underwritten. Most people in the theatre knew what was going to happen before it happened. Also, the length of time between the bite and the transformation to zombie varied, depending on the plot line. Example: Matt Frewer (of Max Headroom fame) turned into a zombie rather quickly--so did the heavy-set woman with no name. Contrast that with the Russian woman who took a few days to transform. I think Zach Snyder, the director, was creative at one point--the opening credits. I loved the use of the Johnny Cash song. After that, in my opinion, the film declined. I thought having zombies zipping around, running as fast as cars, was a mistake and too much like "28 Days Later".

[thingfish]

32. Well, I like all the other movies you like, but have to...

...respectfully disagree with your assesment of the DotD remake, and make a prediction that you will change your mind once you see the movie again!

When you see it again, let me know if I was right!

(If I was wrong, don't bother!)

[cjm2222]

35. See--we agree more than we disagree

I probably will watch it again when it comes out on DVD. I want to see what made it in and what was cut. However, I really hope Romero's "Twilight of the Dead" gets made. I will be one of the first in line to see it.

[thingfish]

37. He has a script titled "Dead Reckoning" that he's ready to shoot.

All he needs is seventeen million dollars. I hope he can still do something good, because while Night and Dawn were classics, Day was rank.

[cjm2222]

38. I never saw Day

but friends have told me it is bad. I hope some studio will pick up his script and produce the film.

[Occulus]

34. I'll bet

the fact that she was pregnant had something to do with the delay, and ended up on the cutting room floor.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet a lot was cut out of this film. Maybe a DVD version will be better. I'll at least rent it once.

Maybe.

[Occulus]

29. I'll bite if cjm won't

Dark City was brilliant. The only reason it didn't do better was a) it was hard to grasp and b) the ending was a bit cliche.

Of course, Silence of the Lambs ranks up there as an intelligent and creative film, as do Schindler's List and The Green Mile.

I guess, in the end, the only opinion that matters in any way is your own.

[cjm2222]

31. D'oh!

I really liked "Silence of the Lambs". And yes, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Taste is definitely subjective.


On edit:

I forgot to state why I liked the films I named. "Brotherhood of the Wolf" was incredibly unique, great story and fascinating slant on something that actually occured. "Blade Runner" is a favourite because I thought it was a well-told tale. "Alien" no explanation needed. It was a great film (in my opinion). Finally, Coen Bros. are incredibly creative and most of their film are unique, well-written and well-acted.

[thingfish]

36. Well, that explains it.

Other than Silence of the Lambs, we don't see eye-to-eye, film-wise. And The Green Mile was just plain goofy. I saw no point to that movie. Sure, the death penalty is bad because you might kill an innocent or undeserving man, but what was the deal with that gigantic, saintly/retarded mouse-resurrector?!

[Occulus]

24. Any movie is a work of art.

However, as we all know, there do exist good and bad works of art. Piss Christ could be held to be an example of the latter:



It's all a matter of perception. That's one of the reasons wingnuts of all striped undervalue the arts as a whole: the fine arts tend to exist for no other purpose but to be themselves. They have 'no use', as it were.

It's shameful, but there it is. I'd like to also say that before I went and paid money for the midnight show, I thought to download the film via a filesharing network. I did not; I paid to see it.

I find myself wishing I'd just downloaded the damn thing instead. As I stated in my original post, I wasted my money.

[thingfish]

26. Piss Christ is da BOMB!!!

I mean, you claim not to like it, but you're still talking about it, all these years later!

It's a forever work of art. It will never leave your soul.

At least, not until they perfect that "Spotless Mind" technology (pat pend)

[Occulus]

30. I didn't say I didn't like it

I only said it could be seen as objectionable. I think movies and pop music are the only two art forms I feel comfortable saying I don't like; anything else is usually new and different and thus unique and, to me, worth experiencing.

However, I seem to remember that specific painting differently. As I recall, it was a painting of a cross sitting in a bucket of urine.

Could someone set me straight on this? I went to use that painting as an example and immediately became confused.

[Dogmudgeon]

20. "Genre" films always get panned

Wait until June when the reviews come in for The Day After Tomorrow, a film about an ecological catastrophe. Big-budget, great special effects, a global climate-change perspective ... it won't stand a chance.

For some reason, critics like small movies about the lives of small people experiencing introverted, introspective pain.

Stick in a spaceship or threaten more than a few people with death and it becomes critical poison. But enjoy them anyway.

--bkl

[thingfish]

23. Somehow, though, I have a feeling the pans will be waranted.

It's brought to you by the guy who did ID4 and Godzilla, remember...

[Occulus]

33. Godzilla flopped, as I recall....

[Supply Side Jesus]

39. its going to suck big time

nothing but a big f/x jerk off fest, just like their other 'films.'
Heard an interview on NPR some guy they were interviewing was an eco-disaster type know-it-all. The producers consulted him briefly and when he told the things he didn't want to hear they never called him again. So other than being unrealistic (of course I speak of realities in a zombie film thread), its going to blow.
I junst hope we don't have to a gut wrenching Bill Pullmanesq independence day speech.

[thingfish]

40. Kick, because somebody else was interested...

xxx

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

41. sarah polley's in it

and that's enough to get me into the theatre

[tigerbeat]

42. saw it last night.

and i really enjoyed it....i'm a fan of the original dead trilogy and hope romero does twilight of the dead.

i think you're thoughts on the political allegory are interesting and i think to some degree all disaster movies stick their toe in that pool. i actually got into a good discussion with my lady friend afterwards about the "class structure" of movie monsters (vampires = ruling class. zombies = the poor lower class).

the varying time between bite and transformation bugged me too though...polley's boyfriend at the beginning of the film took literally 8 seconds, while other people tended to take longer (the extreme being the pregnant woman taking days). i think a simple explanation saying that it depended on how deep the bite was or how bad the wound was affected the transformation time would have cleared it up. too bad the filmmaker decided not to include one.

loved the soundtrack choices (johnny cash and jim carroll!)

[skypilot]

43. Did anyone else notice...

...during the opening credits sequence there appeared to be a quick shot of what looked like a mosque full of Muslims kneeling in prayer?