I can't wrap my brain around the arranged marriage thing

[clyrc]

My 26 year old Pakistani friend doesn't want to get married, but his mother decided it was time so she went back to Pakistan to find him a bride. A few weeks later, she called him to tell him he was engaged, and she had announced it and had an engagement party already. A week later, he got to see a blurry picture of his 18 year old fiance. He's been engaged almost a month now, but he hasn't talked to the girl yet. Her parents won't allow it. Sometime soon he's going to Pakistan for the official marriage, but the ceremony won't take place until December. I asked him if he would get to see and talk to the girl after they are officially married, and he said "Probably." Wow.

I try to be culturally sensitive, but this is just so crazy to me. My friend doesn't want to get married, but his mother is making him marry a stranger. This girl will move out of her home country, and her home village, to be a wife to a stranger, and this is not an unusual story. I know this sort of thing works out for some people, but I know of quite a few cases where it didn't work out. One of the biggest pleasures in my life was finding, dating, and then marrying my husband,and I think it's sad that not everyone gets to do that. Maybe my friend's marriage will work out. I hope so for him and for her. But frankly I am VERY glad I'm an American woman when I see things like this.

[Betty88]

1. I work with a guy who has just about the same story

He has 3 kids now with the woman. He does not seem very happy, he loves his kids but he really did not want to get married. He was bout 30 at the time and his parents just took over and set it all up.

We all told him flat out it was crazy but he said that's just the way it is.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Given the number of non-arranged marriages that fail, seems like an equal crap shoot either way.

[clyrc]

15. I know about the statistics,

but another friend told me that it is common for married people to live separate lives after the children have been born in an arranged marriage. Living in the UAE, I see that all the time- married men, with wives back in their own countries, having a relationship with women who aren't their wives. Women have to be much more discreet about the arrangements, but they do make those arrangements. I'm not saying it happens with every couple, but it does with some.

[clyrc]

16. triple post

[clyrc]

17. triple post

[Heidi]

3. I don't see it as much different than any other cultural bullying situation.

Plenty of Americans are bullied to "be" straight; married off to the most well-to-do suitor (still happens where I grew up) ready or not; more slender; more white; more popular, successful, brilliant, accomplished, etc.

Maybe some people who are bullied into being what they aren't will be happy. I hope they'll be happy if they don't have the support to bust through the wall of cultural bullying, but mostly, I hope the bullies will either A) die before they can do more damage, or B) have an epiphany and just allow people to be who they ARE.

[Crystal Clarity]

9. I agree Heidi

Great point. Cultural bullying is a good description. Sadly though, I doubt we'll ever see an end to it. :-(

[clyrc]

21. It is cultural bullying, but

My friend's mom has made many sacrifices for her sons, starting when she was a bride of 16 who met, married and moved with a stranger. My friend has been taught that he owes her this. From his mom's point of view, she isn't asking him to do anything unusual.

[Bucky]

4. From what I've read, arranged marriages have a lower divorce rate than traditional love based ones.

It probably has something to do with fewer unrealistic expectations, more pressure from family to make it work, and more careful planning on everybody's part. But still, that statistic sticks with ya.

[sarge43]

7. Perhaps it has to do in part that in the societies where

arranged marriages are accepted or the norm, divorce isn't allowed or divorce makes the individual a social outcast.

[Bucky]

11. Actually, the news story I got this from was about arranged marriages in the United States

Most, but not all, were among immigrants & first generation Americans, but they also covered other groups, like American Bahais & certain conservative Christians who also tell their young folks who to marry. Some Indian-Americans who have arranged spouses picked out by parents are quite modern couples--they're doctors & engineers, but they just happen to let their families handle the life partnering decisions. Obviously the conservatism of this practice plays a big role in how infrequent divorces occur, though.

[snooper2]

31. It has most to do by being deeply brainwashed with religion

[FloridaJudy]

5. I can see how this could work

As long as both sets of parents have their children's best interests at heart - and aren't simply doing it for the prestige or the dowry money. And as long as the kids want to get married and have veto rights. The parents get to vet the proposed spouse, to make sure they don't have any vicious habits or bizarre beliefs.

My own grandparents' marriage was arranged, not to everyone's satisfaction. My grandmother always resented being paired with a man who was her social "inferior" - an illiterate craftsman. She was nucking futs IMHO. He was one of the smartest, kindest human beings it was ever my privilege to meet. He was the one who should have resented being hobbled with a neurotic snob, but he never had an unkind word for anyone.

Of course my other set of grandparents chose their own partner. It worked out just as well - or just as badly.

[clyrc]

23. My friend's mom definitely has her son's best interests at heart

but, she is uneducated and she's a traditional Pakistani woman. My friend is well educated, an expat, a very moderate Muslim, and not very traditional. His mother picked a young village woman to be his bride, and while she may be smart, she certainly won't be well educated, even for her age. She may turn out to be an amazing woman, but if she isn't she will bore my friend to tears.

[AngryAmish]

6. This was the situation for almost all of mankind until recently

We are the weird ones, not them.

BTW, my wife's father is from Pakistan (hey, I'm related to General Musariff!). He came here to go to college, got married, became an Army officer and refuses to go back. Anyway when my bride was a younger woman some family was visiting. They met my bride and then proceeded to open negotiations with her father to win her hand. All he could do was laugh at them because 1. No way, no how was she going along with that deal and 2. the poor guy would have no idea what he was getting into.

Pakistan, even among the wealthy and cosmopolitan, is so very different than our culture regarding the status of women.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. What's to figure out?

He married me, I get to arrange his house.

[Blue_Tires]

10. A friend of mine from HS had been arranged to marry since childhood

Her parents needed a wealthy man's help to emigrate to the U.S. from the Philippines, and all the parents could offer was their daughter when she turned 18...She wasn't even allowed to date anyone in HS, even though she had not-too-secret boyfriend we all knew about...

I don't know whatever happened with the story...Last I heard her parents (who had become quite successful)were trying to just settle the debt with a cash payoff...

[Bucky]

12. Poor lonely millionaire.

That makes me sad :(

[trof]

13. How long has your friend lived 'under the influence' of U.S. 'culture'?

26?
Jeez.
I'd just sit down with mom and tell her it ain't gonna happen.
period...done.
No?

[clyrc]

18. I live in the United Arab Emirates, as does my friend

He is the oldest son, and he was taught to expect this since childhood. He would have had a say in choosing his wife, but he fell in love with "inappropriate" women twice and his mother thinks it is her right to demand that he marry someone of her choosing right now. I think it is kind of like the concept of abandoning your child for Americans- it's not something you do if you want to be a decent person. And he is a more than decent person. He feels responsible for taking care of his parents, and that includes marrying someone suitable, to have children with and to help him care for his parents. That part I can kind of understand. It's the marrying a stranger that I find so weird.

[Chan790]

37. (Removed. clyrc said it better.)

[struggle4progress]

14. College friend of mine had an arranged marriage. Seems to have worked out fine.

I think it's a strange outdated institution, but it's OK with me if no coercion is involved

[HEyHEY]

19. Damn you American women and your uppity opinions

[HEyHEY]

20. Damn you American women and your uppity opinions

[clyrc]

22. I don't know about that

If I tried to tell my daughters that I was going to choose who they were going to marry, they would laugh me out of the house. If I told them that they didn't have a choice, they were going to live with me and take care of me for the rest of my life, they would laugh even more. As an American mom I have much less power than a Pakistani mom has. The only consolation for that is that my mom doesn't have that kind of power over me, either.

[HEyHEY]

24. The best consolation is that your kids won't hate you

I know so many Chinese people that are perfectly nice people who have no relationship with there parents and don't want them around. It's quite sad. You know how back home you meet men and women who actually DO things with their mom or dad? I have never had a Chinese person say to me, "Me and my Dad are going to see that movie." Or "Oh, I'm going shopping with my Mom on saturday." My fiancee hasn't even bothered to make an effort for me to get to know her parents. meanwhile I've insisted she talk to mine on the phone and such because I want her to know how awesome they are.

It's very sad

[clyrc]

26. That is sad

There is lots of tension between my friend and his parents because traditionally, he is still supposed to let them rule his life, and he has his own ideas. He loves them, though.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

25. It's not my cup of tea; but I can understand...

Having parents arrange things eliminates the possibility of decisions that are based purely on physical attraction. They can question things from a more practical perspective...consider whether the couple is a good match intellectually, spiritually, and financially, as well as physically.

One would hope that couples in this country would be careful about that; but the fact is, the first thing that propels Americans toward that first date is typically a physical attraction.

[clyrc]

27. But what if you aren't physically attracted to the person your parents pick?

Frankly, I can't imagine marrying and having kids with someone I didn't like physically. Maybe that isn't a big deal for everyone, but it's a big deal for me.

[struggle4progress]

28. Oh, y'know, he and she just work on it a bit: he finds out she makes

a dynamite chocolate-anchovy-pickle ice cream; she finds out he likes to wear bras and high heels; he finds out she can knock a mule out cold with a single punch; she finds out he can nail a TV antenna to the side of the house; pretty soon, they see eye-to-eye, and love blossoms!

[clyrc]

29. That's beautiful

Have you ever thought of writing a Bollywood movie?

[struggle4progress]

30. Oooh! Boy meets girl in Calcutta market. They take instant dislike to each other.

Boy and girl meet by accident on several other occasions and dislike each other more and more. Boy visits parents, who have arranged marriage for him. Boy meets bride for first time on wedding day. Guess who! Boy attempts to escape from wedding ceremony but is foiled by circumstances. Girl attempts to escape from wedding ceremony but is foiled by circumstances. Married, boy and girl move into apartment supplied by parents. Boy and girl sulk. Girl makes chocolate-anchovy-pickle ice cream &c&c &c&c and happily ever after

[GoddessOfGuinness]

36. We're all a product of our cultures...

I suspect that dissatisfaction with a parent's choice of a mate is just not as common as we would think.

[Chan790]

38. It goes a far way to explaining why so many British nobles are so funny-looking.

I'm half-Scottish and of a noble line. I'm also a genealogy and history nerd.

From the earliest days of record of my ancestors until the 1800s, every single marriage was a brokered marriage of power...binding families, strengthening the clan, sealing treaties, acquisition of land or fortunes. Functionally arranged marriages though nobody thought of them as such.

Let me tell you, the history of my clan is well documented as one of the most powerful in the history of the British isles back to the 900s. There are some real lookers in there in the "Did great x22 grandma Elizabeth's mouth really not close causing her to drool incessantly?" and "So that's why Sir Adam was known as Adam the Hobbled!" variety. It doesn't help that frequently suitable mates were cousins.

[PassingFair]

40. Did they eventually settle in West Virginia?

[Chan790]

43. Some certainly.

It's one of the most common last names in the western hemisphere. Represented in every nation in Europe and variations of which are common in former French, English and Spanish speaking colonies (Lots of Canadians, both francophone and anglophone), as well as the Middle East. It's also a very common last name among southern African-Americans but that's because some distant cousin-ancestors were privateers, slavers, cretins.

Hint on the name: Lord Byron is an indirect ancestor. It's not Byron.

[PassingFair]

44. A Gordon for me, a Gordon for me...

if you're nae a Gordon you're nae use to me.

A Gordon for me, a Gordon for me,
If ye're no a Gordon ye're no use to me.
The Black Watch are braw, the Seaforths and a'
But the cocky wee Gordon's the pride o' them a'.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. I find it completely amazing how many liberals are ok with arranged marriages

I guess freedom of choice is trumped by "cultural sensitivity." Marriage - or not - will be my choice, and the thought that my parents could just decide, nope, you're getting married now, and to this guy, whether you like him or not - sends shivers down my spine. How anyone professing Enlightenment values can think this is a just practice is beyond me.

[riderinthestorm]

34. +10000! You do your best to raise your child to be a functioning adult, and then don't trust them

to pick their life partner???

How is this even remotely okay? That person is an adult!

Furthermore, as a very, very experienced woman before I got married (probably slept with upwards of 50 guys before I got married which was fine with my husband since he'd equally fooled around before we met), I can tell you, attraction matters. A lot. There really is such a thing as chemistry. What if you were married to a block of ice, forever?

Eek! Misery. There's an old adage that goes something like if you have regular sex in your marriage, it accounts for 10% of your happiness. If you don't have regular sex, it accounts for 90% of your unhappiness...

[Chan790]

39. I cannot speak for others, but my answer to the question posed in the last sentence.

Complete rejection of cultural-supremacist worldviews.

The fact that things in our culture are done a certain way...does not make that way better ipso-facto than the way they're done in other corners of the world.

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. I don't put much, if any, stock in cultural relativism

It's wishy-washy "liberalism" at its finest, and thus, not truly liberal. Liberalism is about championing a set of values, paramount among which is freedom of choice. Cultural relativism can make excuses for anything from arranged marriage to child brides to female genital mutilation, and while those things are of course not morally equivalent, where do you draw the line?

[clyrc]

45. Cultural relativism is helpful when you move to another country

I draw the line at neutrality when I get furious because someone is being hurt by a belief. Arranged marriages don't make me angry unless they are forced on someone.

[WildEyedLiberal]

48. Well, there's a difference between cultural relativism and cultural differences

Simply because a custom differs from mine doesn't make it bad, good, or anything other than different. Most customs are harmless, and it's interesting to see the variation between different cultures. I draw the line when a particular cultural custom robs a person of their dignity as a human being, or robs them of their self-determination. Arranged marriages seem to fall very frequently into the latter category - at least, it seems like that's what's happening in your anecdote with your Pakistani friend. He clearly doesn't want to get married. Why should he submit to such a life-altering decision based purely on the dictates of his parents? It's not right.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[seabeyond]

35. talk to a woman this summer who had arrange marriage. over 20yrs. she explained why it is a good

thing and works for them. whatever....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. its hard to see this as just an american woman advantage,

when it seems like both the husband and the wife are being bullied into it.

secondly, your friend can stand up for himself. a lot of my pakistani friends are not forced into getting married and have just learnt to say no to their parents.

last year, i went to a gay pakistani/indian wedding. she certainly managed to say no to her parents

some of these are choices individuals make as well.

[clyrc]

46. My friend isn't good at saying no to his family

He feels responsible for them , and his parents have made sure he feels that way. Of course he has the choice to say no, but he doesn't want to live with the consequences. I understand that.

When I said I was glad I was an American woman, I meant that in this case, I was glad that arranged marriage was never an issue. I'm not all that great at saying no to my family, either.

[applegrove]

47. I've understood you are trading freedom for security. I don't think there is

any security in marrying someone you don't know. I knew a girl one time whose parents were in an arraged marriage. I think they were very unhappy.