Is Gone With the Wind racist?

[Paradoxical]

I've never read the book and I literally just started watching the film 30 minutes ago. But it already seems to be promoting some profoundly racist ideas.


On edit: Racist and sexist.

[haele]

1. It was a reflection of it's time and thinking.

And Mitchell wrote the highly romaticized book in an era where she could actually talk to people who had been through the Civil War.
Yes, it's racist, as it's written from the viewpoint of the well-to-do white landowners in the South, who were not concerned about the problems of slaves or servants - or anyone else for that matter, so long as they were properly "respected". People who created their own reality and practiced a more "genteel" racism than the average American.

Haele

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. well said. nt

[Richardo]

2. Well, it was made in the 30s and is set in the 1860s

So yes, there are sexist and racist sentiments - much as there was in both societies.

On the other hand, Butterfly McQueen was the first African American to win an Oscar.

On the other hand, I find it a tiresome, overblown movie.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. Pssst... Hattie McDaniel -

She won for her portrayal of Mammy.

[Richardo]

36. Thank you.

Mea culpa. :pals:

[undeterred]

3. Well, its really a damn good film despite that.

And some black actors won Oscars for their fine performances, I believe.

[struggle4progress]

4. "Gone with the Wind" is an anagram for "White dew nothing"

which was pretty much the antebellum ideal

[applegrove]

5. They had the beginning of the Klu Klux Klan in the movie. I fell for the book completely when I was

a teen and ignored all the racism.

[undeterred]

13. I was 12 when I read it.

Still an awesome read.

[catzies]

59. If you judge Scarlett based on the movie alone she gets a bad rap IMO

To know Scarlett is to have read the book.

THAT Scarlett worked her ass off when she had to, and did what she had to, and wondered why women weren't allowed to be smart.

She had been a single teenage mom and had to work for a living. She kept a family together in a shattered world. She buried both her parents. She made her way in a man's world and if you didn't like it that was your problem.

THAT Scarlett meant a lot to me when I was growing up and I love that book to this day.

[Paradoxical]

6. Intermission

I've never watched a movie with an intermission. lol

[sgsmith]

7. Not even 2001: A Space Odyssey ?

Sad. Just so sad.

j/k

[Paradoxical]

8. Oh yeah I totally forgot about 2001.

[laconicsax]

9. Not even Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

[Supply Side Jesus]

10. Fiddler on the Roof?

:Shocking:

[Paradoxical]

11. Fiddler was made 18 years before I was born.

I'm working on watching older film. But I haven't gotten to all of them yet.

[Lucinda]

12. Fiddler is definitely worth watching.

Hope you get around to it sometime!

[Enthusiast]

14. I agree.

Even though I'm anti-semetic. :sarcasm:

[sarge43]

16. Lawrence of Arabia, Ben Hur? n/t

[Frank Cannon]

17. Movies used to have them all the time.

As well as overtures that played before the beginning while people were finding their seats.

Ah, the good old days. Now get off my lawn.

[av8rdave]

33. You never watched Ghandi?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

51. Not even "HELP!"?

A cinematic masterpiece, no doubt. "End of part I"??

The touching dedication: "To Elias Howe, inventor of the sewing machine"???


:rofl:

But hey the music was GREAT!

[catzies]

58. Thank you so much for that...I'm not the only one who remembers!

And who can forget Roger, The Bengal tiger, gift from the Berlin Zoo.

He was reared on the classics.

[Paradoxical]

15. Holy shit that was a long movie.

And depressing too.

The only redeeming quality was the last line by Clark Gable.

Jesus I need a drink.

[deutsey]

21. See if you can track down Carol Burnett's parody of it: "Went with the Wind"

One of the best sketches she and her crew did on her old TV show from the '70s (Harvey Korman as "Rat Butler" is one of my favorites). I think the moment when Burnett appeared in the gown made out of curtains (complete with the curtain rod along the shoulders) is the longest a studio audience has ever laughed during a TV skit. I heard that somewhere, anyway.

Classic.

[P. Galore]

23. One of television's truly GREAT moments. And Korman and Shore were also great. nt

[hamsterjill]

35. I'm old enough to remember when it aired!

Laughed until I cried. Truly one of the best comedic moments!!!

Now, do you also remember "As the Stomach Turns"??? LOL

[deutsey]

43. Oh...I love how Burnett always tossed the baby into the umbrella stand by the door

Truly classic stuff...the greatest of which, of course, was the Family skits. Comedic genius, really. I wish Mama's Family hadn't come along, though. Took the edge and vinegar out of it to make a weak sit-com.

[eShirl]

41. "As god is my witness, I'll never eat tuna casserole again!"

Went With the Wind, Part I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH6TBEbP77Q

Went With the Wind, Part II http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nt0yi4wbro&feature=related

[deutsey]

44. Thanks for posting these! n/t

[Orsino]

55. And perhaps the funniest punchline ever aired...

...when Korman compliments Burnett on her unusual gown (with curtain rod). Her reply: "I saw it in the window, and couldn't resist it."

I believe I was actually on the floor laughing.

[av8rdave]

34. Agreed

That movie didn't even need to be racist to be terrible!

[Deep13]

18. I think it rather soft-pedals slavery.

I don't think it racist to portray historic, racist attitudes. That's just telling the truth. But I did object to the fuzzy almost nostalgic view of slavery it presented. It seemed unrealistic.

Maybe that's what you meant by asking if it was racist.

[P. Galore]

19. Yes and No. It depicts a racist and sexist world, but I don't think it glorifies them.

We see O'Hara treating the slaves like crap and most of the family's slaves are outta there the first chance they get.

It's not a pretty picture and, overall, the O'Haras, etc. are depicted as selfish and ignorant.

[hedgehog]

20. I live for the day someone steps up to do a re-make of Gone With the Wind.

One that follows the story line, but tells the real story!

[P. Galore]

22. Yes, I'm surprised it hasn't been done. For example, Margaret Mitchell

laughed out loud at the posh digs - with columns! - that the O'Haras and Wilkes lived in. She wanted it much more utilitarian and far less glamorous than that depicted in the film.

It would be great to see a grubby version of GWTW with all her marriages, the brutality, etc.

Too bad we have to rely upon the Brits to do historical miniseries and don't do our own.

[hedgehog]

25. I'm afraid it won't happen soon; the Margaret Mitchell estate controls

the GWTW brand and is very protective:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wind_Done_Gone

[Demoiselle]

37. I didn't know that!

I've read that things were pretty grubby in the anti-bellum South, and that the Tara and Twelve Oaks fantasies were dreamscapes with only the smallest connection to reality for the vast majority of white slave owners.....but I didn't know that Margaret Mitchell herself found the fantasies silly....Yeah, I agree that GWTW is racist...
I really can't bear to watch the movie...the only saving grace for me is Hattie McDaniel with her extraordinary strength.

[LisaL]

53. In both the book and the movie she has been married 3 times.

[catzies]

61. and had a child by each husband. In the movie she has only one with hubby #3 (Rhett)

[LeftinOH]

27. Now go and watch 'Birth of a Nation'; GWTW will seem positively progressive

by comparison.

[P. Galore]

28. Again, I don't think the KKK was positively depicted in Birth of A Nation.

It's been a while since I've seen it.

[LeftinOH]

29. The KKK were the heroes in Birth of a Nation-

[P. Galore]

39. I'll have to give it another look. I saw it as a kid and was bored silly -

I remember the whole thing creeped me out.

[cemaphonic]

30. Wait, what?

The KKK was most definitely the hero of Birth of a Nation.

[NoGOPZone]

31. I'd be interested in your review of "Triumph of the Will" nt

[msanthrope]

32. "Aristotle was not Belgian!

The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself!" And the London Underground is not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."

[deutsey]

46. Wanda!

I...wondah...I wondah...

:evilgrin:

Love that movie.

[MicaelS]

38. GWTW is a 4 hour long soap opera

I watched it one time, when it first time it came out on video (VHS) 30 years ago. I couldn't believe all the fuss about this film.

The documentary The Making of a Legend: Gone With the Wind was made back in 1988 and is shown on Turner Classic Movies from time to time, is actually better than the film, IMO. I never knew for example, that the film was shot on the studio backlot. If you get a chance watch this video.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385073/

[Blasphemer]

52. I agree. It's a terrible movie

I LOVE classic films and there are many, many much better ones that don't get the attention GWTW gets. Vivien Leigh is much better years later in "A Streetcar Named Desire".

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

40. apparently, there is a book that tells the other side of

the GWTW story. I haven't read, although I would like too, this is from the GWTW wiki site --

"In 2000, the copyright holders attempted to suppress publication of Alice Randall’s The Wind Done Gone, a book that retold the story from the point of view of the slaves. A federal appeals court denied the plaintiffs an injunction against publication in Suntrust v. Houghton Mifflin (2001), on the basis that the book was parody protected by the First Amendment. The parties subsequently settled out of court to allow the book to be published. After its release, the book became a New York Times bestseller."

[kwassa]

42. GWTW is racist, and a deeply stupid movie.

I saw it in a theater, and was already saying "Frankly, my dear, I couldn't give a damn" about an hour before Clark Gable got to that line.

Scarlett O'Hara has to be the least likable "heroine" in the history of cinema. She is a selfish, idiotic twit too self-involved to notice the Civil War happening around her. She goes through no character growth in the entire movie; she has no character at the beginning, and none at the end. The only possibly real reason that she has so many suitors is that they wanted access to her father's fortune, as she is so thoroughly unlikable.

It is nothing more than a soap opera with a high budget, another version of the princess fantasy.

[P. Galore]

47. I think the film would certainly be racist if she were a likable character, but she isn't.

She is manipulative to everyone and cruel to her slaves.

For that reason, I don't think this film glamourizes slavery or depicts it sympathetically at all.

[kwassa]

49. It is racist in that it perpetuates a false notion of the relationships between masters and slaves

as if Mammy could boss Scarlett around. This is the revisionist idea of slaves-as-family.

and there is Prissy, the adult slave who behaves like a senseless child ...

[LisaL]

54. Wasn't Prissy a teenage girl?

[meow2u3]

45. By 21st century standards, it would be regarded as racist

But this was the South during the Civil War, an inherently and overtly racist and sexist culture and time period. You can't apply 21st century standards to 19th century reality.


Even Northern society was racist during the 19th century, only the Northern-style racism was more subtle and was primarily targeted at white ethnics, especially Southern Europeans and free blacks. The former were the new immigrants, many who didn't speak English or spoke with accents thick enough to require subtititles to understand; the latter, the free blacks, couldn't vote before the adoption of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments solely because of their race.

[deutsey]

48. The author of the book wanted Groucho Marx to play Rhett Butler

Can you imagine Groucho strutting around Dixie with his cigar?

[MrsBrady]

50. the book is better than the movie

at the time the movie came out...EVERYONE...had read the book.

they left quite a bit out of the movie.

[Hosnon]

56. I never thought so. Of course, it is heavy on the racism due to its topic. nt.

[dawg]

57. The movie depicts a South that never was ...

An antebellum ideal, where slaves love their masters, everyone knows their place, and society functions like people in the 1930's thought it should.

Of course, the joke is on those 1930's moviegoers, because I think the movie does a pretty good job of mocking this attitude and portrays those *genteel" southerners as idiots (Ashley)(Mr. Kennedy), manipulating narcissists (Scarlett), amoral opportunists (Rhett), or just plain blathering idiots. (Mr Ohara)

The only positive characters are Melanie & Mammy, and, of course, Mammy's part is written as a racist caricature.

I actually like this movie for what it is. The story is not so much racist as unrealistic. True, the slave parts are written in a very demeaning way, but some allowances must be made for the 1930's.

[catzies]

62. You don't think Will Benteen was a positive character? Or Grandma Fontaine?

Oh, you're just judging based on the movie.

[BrendaBrick]

60. Andrew Young recently produced a documentary

entitled: "Change In The Wind" outlining the relationship between Mitchell & Dr. Benjamin Mays of Morehouse College:

in part: from: http://amazingartdecodivas.blogspot.com/2010/08/mitchell-margaret-gone-with-wind-fame.html

MOREHOUSE COLLEGE

With these two successes Margaret Mitchell became an international celebrity and a celebrated Atlanta citizen. It is no doubt this notoriety brought her to the attention of Dr. Benjamin Mays, the new president of the historically black Morehouse College. He may or may not have known about Margaret Mitchell’s former involvement with the Black community, the question is mute; her celebrity had put her in the limelight. In 1941, when he realized that some of his promising students needed funds to put them through school and with fund raising on his mind it appears that Margaret was the first person he approached. She agreed to an anonymous donation of $80, enough at that time to put a student through one year of school. Dr. Mays later wrote Margaret a letter describing the impact her gift had on its young recipient. So moved by this disclosure she made arrangements to make the same contribution on a regular basis. Again, Dr. Mays agreed to keep the scholarship fund a secret, even for many years after her death.

HER SECRET REVEALED

The fund’s donor, Margaret Mitchell so long kept a secret, was revealed when Dr. Otis Smith, the first African-American in the state of Georgia to be certified as a pediatrician told the story to the Margaret Mitchell House, in Atlanta. Despite years of work as a teacher, shoe shiner, and field hand when he had been a first-year student at Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tenn., he told Dr. Mays he simply had no more money to continue his studies. Dr. Mays sent him back to Nashville and said cryptically, “Don’t worry about a thing. I’ll take care of it.”

MITCHELL’S LEGACY

Although Dr. Smith’s tuition and fees were completely paid; it was 35 years later (Margaret Mitchell had long ago died in 1949, struck by a speeding car while crossing the intersection of Peachtree Street) before Dr. Mays revealed the source of the gift, one of about 40 to 50 Margaret Mitchell had made to African American medical students. So our dear Margaret Mitchell, of Gone With the Wind Fame, was a determined woman who succeeded as an enlightened Southerner. She championed the Black community in Atlanta in other other ways and also supported the early effort to desegregate the city’s police department. To quote Mitchell, “I want peace; I want to see if somewhere there isn’t something left in life of charm and grace.”
Posted by Polly Guerin at 7:49 AM Labels: Margaret Atlanta's Black Medical Student benefactor, Mitchell

The documentary: http://andrewyoungpresents.blogspot.com/

Atlanta Magazine article: http://www.atlantamagazine.com/history/story.aspx?ID=1320095