Howard Dean is only 5'-9" tall. He can't win

[NewYorkerfromMass]

The taller candidate always win the general, and worse for Dean, he appears short and stocky, AND he has thinning hair.

I am sorry, this kind of thing matters not to the DU intelligentsia, but it matters to the 5 to 10% of voters who decide elections. YES, in some ways it IS a beauty contest. Sorry.

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. hey you forgot the

;)

unless you really were serious...nah

[jrthin]

2. NewYorkerfromMass, unfortunately...

you're correct. And if we want to get out the mess in the WH, we need to come to grips with Dean's stature. It's an ugly reality, but we dems need to address it. I often think of the odious Brian Williams, MSNBC whore, commenting that Gore was follicle challanged, as though the hair issue defined Gore.

[grytpype]

3. Don't laugh. There is something to this.

When Joe Average Moran-American sees them candidates on the TEEVEE, and Duhbya is towering over Dean, Joe's primitive reptile-like brain will automatically recognize Duhbya as the LEADER and Dean as the BUTTBOY.

Seriously.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. Yep. That's a good reptilian brain analysis

:shrug:

[Benhurst]

4. You have also forgotten ...

Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. Carter was taller than Ford

and Ford never got elected.

[jerryster]

84. Carter and Ford

Actually, Ford was taller. The height thing is, unfortunately, pretty accurate. However, there was so much other crap in 1976 thanks to Nixon that the race hinged on other things. I voted for Carter because he was smarter than Ford. But I also think it was as close as it was because the height factor played in.

[liberalnurse]

14. FDR was in a wheelchair....

He rarely stood at all......

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. Before Television

and the press was good about avoiding that issue. Different times altogether. :-(

[Julien Sorel]

17. That was in the era before TV.

[jerryster]

85. Clark

Good posting! I am neutral still on the Dem candidates. But what you just posted was VERY impressive. The man is telegenic and that's vital. And him being in a military uniform is no problem. He looks authentic and that's important as well. If only someone had told Susan Estrich that in 1988 before she put Dukakis in that tank....

[Larkspur]

5. By that criteria, Edwards should be way out in the lead

but he's dying in the polls faster than Lieberman.

Dean has got spunk and he's the underdog. Americans love underdogs.

[baffie]

6. Dean gives the impression of being tall

And if his hair is thinning, I never noticed, which normally I would. To me, all of this says that if he gives the impression of being taller and having more hair on his head, this points to the fact that he is so dynamic that he overwhelms all obstacles.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. Good point.

But can it overcome history?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

64. History, hmmm.... iirc,

Bill Bradley, a former basketball player, etcetera, etcetera.

[jerryster]

86. Bradley

Unfortunately, Bradley was a terrible campaigner. The most telling photo was of him on the Staten Island Ferry. He was alone and making no effort to meet and greet people on the ferry. I talked to someone who had been involved with his campaign and he said all the staff cringed when they saw it. Tall is helpful, but you still have to be active.

[ModerateMiddle]

60. it points to good media management

that he never appears standing next to anyone who is taller than he is, or at least from the dead on angle that would clearly show his stature.

[CWebster]

8. Like hitler and napoleon

never had a chance.

Like Lurch doesn't look like a walking cadaver.

;-)

[chimpymustgo]

13. Howard Brush Dean III, is one short angry guy.

Not a chance of getting elected.

[CWebster]

18. Depends on whether the Democratic voters, et al

feel that their candidate should express anger and outrage.

And you?

[whirlygigspin]

20. Lurch!

I love it!

$$$for Dean with every slam$$$$

caching!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[NewYorkerfromMass]

I hate that Freeper nick for Kerry

it is really childish.

[CWebster]

41. I hate freeper attacks on candidate's appearance

It's really childish.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

44. It's a comment on electibilty in the general election

I'm just saying documented, factual history shows that Dean will be at a physical disadvantage.

[CWebster]

52. And I am telling you Kerry's looks scare me

and when he talks it puts me to sleep.

I know what you mean about these things!

;-)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

53. Well, then I guess Kerry can't win!

:)

[soleft]

10. This is where we can use some like Barbra Streisand

Some one with her money could buy like 2 million copies of Rudy and then we could mail them to homes right before the election so everyone sees a short guy overcoming the odds.

But wait, that might make them think of Rudy Guiliani.

Quick, what's another movies with a short guy hero.

[blm]

12. He's 5' 7", but who really cares?

There are some men who are short who don't try to prove themselves bigger by putting on a tough act.

Kucinich is around my height, but he's one of the most stately men in the nation today.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Relevant to our corrupt culture of "style" and shallowness

see posts 16 and 17.

[HFishbine]

15. Excellent Point

Draft Kobe Bryant!

[MrJones]

21. Jeebus, you're right!

Quick, sign up Larry Bird! Is he a Democrat? Tim Duncan? SHAQ FOR PRESIDENT!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. Don't sneer and dismiss. Study recent history. nt

[ThorsteinVeblen]

63. Recent History

Gore towered over Bush.

Bush is a shrimp.

[DemBones DemBones]

80. Yes, Gore towered over Bush and GORE WON. But I refuse to

believe that the pattern will hold forever. Until Reagan, Geronimo's curse or Tecumseh's curse or somebody's curse had always applied, with the president elected every twenty years dying in office. As you know, Reagan was shot but didn't die, in fact still lives, physically.

[SEAburb]

22. If a candidate has a huge personality, like Wellstone,

which endears people to them. The height issue can be overcome. But sadly Dean has an average personality.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

23. Kerry

Kerry is 6'4" and would tower over Bush. People would see Kerry as the leader, and Kerry would win.

[CWebster]

32. Ah yes,

and Lurch is a sparkling and compelling speaker who invigorates the grassroots support and leaves Dean in the dust---or is he the emerginging torchbearer for the ever populus DLC?

[CWebster]

34. Looky here...Kerry hounds trying to smear Dean on

appearances.

You don't really want to go there, do you?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

37. look who's throwing around derogatory nicks?

c'mon C! I'm just stating the facts.

[CWebster]

42. Weren't me who posted this thread

sorry I'm not the type to sit back and allow you to throw your dirt around without holding up the mirror.

And I haven't even warmed up on Kerry's looks if you want to go that route.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

40. oh looky here...

i'm sorry that dean is so short, i really am. it will be his downfall.

[CWebster]

43. Too bad

Kerry turns anyone who glances his way into stone.

Keep it up.

[Cha]

72. Like it was Wellstone's downfall?

[HFishbine]

51. Riggghttt

On the one or two occasions where we can expect Bush and Kerry to possibly be in the same room, you can bet that camera angles will be selected to assure that Bush suffers no disadvantage.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

25. as you know

the taller candidate has won every election but two in our history. History will be on our side if Kerry is the nominee. He is the only candidate who has a height advantage over Bush that is actually distinguishable. Gephardt is the exact same height and Graham, Edwards, Lieberman, and Dean are all shorter. Kerry would have a full 4-5 inches on Bush so he would probably win.

[chimpymustgo]

33. John Edwards is 6 feet - a 2-3 inches taller than *.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

39. no, he isn't.

John Edwards is 5'10", look it up. Dubya is 5'11"-6'

[last_texas_dem]

87. Is Shrub really that tall?

Al Gore looked to be much taller than him in the debates, and I didn't think he (Gore) was much taller than six feet. Remember that garbage about Gore "intimidating" the Chimp by walking over to him and "towering" over him during the debates? Perhaps * inflates his "official" height; that bluff won't matter when he's actually onstage and up against a taller Democrat... (BTW, I'm not putting down anyone for being short; I'm a 5'9" male myself...)

[SyracuseDemocrat]

88. Al Gore is 6'1"

6'1" is somewhat taller than 5'11".

[CWebster]

45. Yes, it is the candidate's height that makes the man

Sad that this its come to leaning on this to rally support for your boy.

[DrFunkenstein]

26. I Don't Buy It, But Kerry Is Much Taller Than All The Candidates

<>

<>

[DrFunkenstein]

30. Kerry Will Tower Over George "Macho Man" W. Bush

Kerry isn't the front-runner, yet the White House has singled him out for sexual calumny. To understand this fixation, you have to consider Kerry's stature (he towers over Bush), his war record, and his sloe-eyed Kennedy aura. In another era, these would be clear signals of masculinity. Today, you have to flash your stash, and Kerry's patrician style doesn't lend itself to that. But he does have those tales from 'Nam, and in a one-on-one he could expose the angst under Bush's aggression. If the economy tanks while Iraq seethes, we just might have a real contest.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0321/goldstein.php

[CMT]

27. Carter was shorter than Ford

I don't put much into this kind of thing. People will care more about the economy, health care, and war and peace than if Dean is shorter than Schrub.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

31. baldness factor- also that was a VERY close election

also, Carter's youth helped a lot. He was percieved as very young and energetic which... HE WAS!

[On the Road]

28. Dean Can Win Because He Has a Big Head!

Physically, I mean. It tends to fill the camera and compensate for his height. (This is another theory that appeals to me.)

Actually, Bush isn't that tall, is he?

[SyracuseDemocrat]

29. Here is a link discussing the statistics

and mathematics of the height of US Presidents. http://filebox.vt.edu/users/enylande/presidents.pdf

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. That confirms the 'TV effect'

great find BTW! Lot of missing data though comparing heights and election result.

[CWebster]

47. Odd

that you would honor the photo of that short,little man-- but tall in anyone's estimation of the things that matter, Wellstone.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

67. odd

that i loved paul wellstone? I don't only support tall candidates, I simply said that for short candidates running for president, history is against them.

[DrFunkenstein]

49. Lincoln Was As Tall As Kerry, And Had The Long Face

<>

<>

[MoonGod]

36. Umm... Uuuuuh... Gore was taller than Bush...

... but Bush still won.

Oh, wait, what's that? Gore won by 500,000+ votes? Georgy had to go to the Supreme Court after his little brother's "guarantee" of Florida didn't quite work out?

Ah, okay, nevermind :)

Either way, I'm willing to get past the height issue. I just want the best guy/gal in the White House.

[Qutzupalotl]

38. How tall is Bush?

Please don't ask me to Google it. All I'll get is porn. :)

On edit: Okay, I saw post #33. With my brilliant powers of deduction, I'd say Bush was 5'9 or 5'10. That's only 0-3 inches taller than Dean. Might not show on camera. Besides, he could wear boots or something, right?

[VoteClark]

79. See how high sh*t stacks, that is how tall Bush can be

[w4rma]

46. For TV, candidates use stools to stand on to give the *appearance*

(like FDR gave the appearance) of being tall.

TV is great for smoke and mirrors if you know how to use it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

48. That's why the shaking hands part of the debate

will be Bush's favorite. (unless it's Kerry, in which case he will have to resort to super duper cowboy boots WITH lifts.) :)

[w4rma]

50. You are worrying too much about insignificant stuff, IMHO (n/t)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

56. A proven factor

prove it's not.

[AntiCoup2K4]

76. Won't be an issue for Junior....

The network anchors will lie about how Bush Jr towers over Kerry (IF he's the nominee) just like they lied about that idiot "winning" the debates with Gore when all the stupid son of a bitch did was read prepared statements and dodged the questions.

[Duder]

54. Kerry's short on substance

The average US adult male is 5'-9.1"
The average US adult female is 5'-3.7"
Source: US Dept. of Health and Human Services
Tallest US President - Abraham Lincoln, 6'-4"
Shortest US President - James Madison - 5'-4"

[Mairead]

55. The Monty Python skit was funnier, guys

[Ripley]

57. You are sexist.

I don't know how tall Hillary is but I bet she is shorter than all of the men running. So you are saying she could never get elected.

You know this kind of trite statistical analysis is just venom towards a candidate you don't like. I betcha I can find a statistic that will tell me that only men with a certain shaped nose can win.

[Ripley]

75. Sorry, I meant your statement was sexist, not you.

But I see I still did not get a response from NYFM.

If we are to ever embrace the notion that a FEMALE can be and should be the president of the United States, then we must embrace the idea that statistics such as height are bogus. Statistically speaking, most women are shorter than men. Thus, no women could be elected according to your bogus theory. (Especially now when polls show Hillary, who is NOT a candidate is running 20-30 points above all the guys.)

Instead of throwing out some ridiculous idea which hurts any female's chance in the future, why don't you just stick to posting threads like this:

Kerry will win because he is taller than the rest.

Hmmmm?

[Julien Sorel]

82. I think you misunderstand the dynamic at work.

Height is a sign of dominance. In a male-female political contest, people don't expect or even value dominance from women, whereas they do expect and value that trait in men. So this particular indicator wouldn't count if a woman was running against a man.

[Larkspur]

58. Kerry is short on vision and logic

and that will be his undoing.

[quinnox]

59. I look forward to Kerry and Bush shaking hands on stage

in front of millions of viewers. Bush will look like a midget next to Kerry, and then when the debate starts Bush will show he is a mental midget as well, compared to Kerry.

[killbotfactory]

61. KERRY CRUSH PUNY HUMANS!

FULL HAIR HEAD KERRY HAVE!

VOTE KERRY!

[DrFunkenstein]

65. There's A Reason Kerry Doesn't Ride With A Helmet

He doesn't need one!

An old joke from the movie Fletch:

"For the Lakers, John Fletcher - 6'. 6'4" with afro."

[ProfessorPlum]

66. Now that's funny

LOL

Reagan was actually not that tall - when you saw him standing next to Bush Sr., Bush towered over him.

Was Reagan taller than Carter?

[dfong63]

62. but, just wait until the first debate

when Dean pulls down his zipper and whips out his HUGE thang, and says, "Top that, frat boy."

[chimpymustgo]

68. That's disgusting.

Please.

[Qutzupalotl]

69. Howard's Huge

Bush put a sock in it

[DrFunkenstein]

73. Dean's Neck Is Huge

<>

You know what they say about men with big necks...

No, really, I'm wondering what they say.

Coming from a supporter of mister tall, dark and craggy, this thing that Dean does with his neck is really unappetizing. Normally, he looks very nice and healthy. But when he puts his chin down he looks like a Soprano.

[VoteClark]

78. Didn't know they stacked sh*t that HIGH!

j/k Bush is taller. :silly:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

70. So what...

Bush walks like a monkey!

[Cha]

71. you are SORRY! Incredibly SORRY.

[polpilot]

74. The DLC will probably have a 'Dean can't win' booth at the Howard

Dean Inauguration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean '04...

[Kanola]

77. They said Clinton could not win because

His name has two syllables. Bush has one and is considered more electable. Yeah, I remember hearing that rubbish in 1992.

Dean is short and stocky. Well Shrub 43 has the IQ of a negative 10, how does that make him oh so electable. Really, if we stuck to what is wrong about Bushco, I think we can beat those lunatics in 04.

[VoteClark]

81. No President ever had a last name that started with D

The last two Democrats elected had last names that began with "C" like Clark.


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


J4Clark

[CWebster]

83. At least

he knows he is a D and not an R.

[since72]

89. Is it just me?

or does this thread remind you of something? "Who are those African folks, the really tall ones? Watusi? They would make really great Presidents". Apologies to John Cleese and the rest of Monty Python,but honestly sometimes i think some of us DUers have waaay too much time on our hands. I saw this thread before i left for work this AM and 12 hrs later its still here. Amazing.

[CWebster]

90. You're absolutely right

I have been goofing off lately. It is a phase which I will soon be over. ;-)

[DagmarK]

91. Physical characteristic most important to win: having a PENIS!

And lord.......NOW how do we distinguish between all those dem candidates. That only takes out ONE candidate..Moseley-Braun.

[midem]

92. All Dean has to do is....

get very short staff members which will make him look very tall. All staff over 5'3" should be fired. And when he debates on T.V., Dean can just stand on his tippi-toes for the hour. Also, Dean can have digitally altered photos of himself standing taller than very tall stuff (like buildings) made, and then send them out to the media. Although this might make people think Dean is actually a GIANT, he will overcome the "Short" thing. I could go on all day, but I won't.

[newsguyatl]

93. grasping for straws, you people are

just grasping for anything you can...

you're desperate... you're pathetic

and i don't blame you, i would be too... if i didn't support dean, and i saw how his candidacy is taking off like no other, leaving the rest in the dust, i'd be desperate too... be afraid, be very afraid

[plurality]

94. thats funny

because my dad says that.

granted, kucinich isnt very tall but my dad likes his stances on the economy so height be damned.