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zekeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 03:56 PM
Original message
Why Shouldn't I like John Edwards
Here in Minnesota he has been running a nice series of TV ads. Very down home, focused on rural job loss, devastation to the economy, etc. He gets mainly positive press, seems genuinely likable.

Why is there little interest in him? I admit I myself have done little research on him. I have overlooked him to learn more about Kerry, Kucinich, Dean and Clark.

A trial attorney. Pretty green to politics - 1st term senator. I think he voted with the Iraq resolution. The former is a mainstream perceived negative - thanks in large part to a long running conservative defamation agenda. The later is a negative in my book.

Convince me either way.

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CarlBallard Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. You should
In fact you should like everyone running on the Democratic side. Here are the ads you mentioned, by the way. http://www.johnedwards2004.com/television-ads.asp
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zekeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thank you - I should have clarified
Edited on Thu Aug-28-03 04:10 PM by zekeson
I will support whoever is nominated. Even Lieberman, but that thread could be expanded in a large way. I have not engaged in bashing of candidates and did not intend to bash or imply that I am not intending to support Edwards. Just want to hear folks opinion on him, good and bad - he seemingly gets ignored here and I like his ads.
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Actually, I like Edwards.
Edited on Thu Aug-28-03 04:00 PM by FlashHarry
I just like Dean and Kerry more. I think Edwards needs a little more experience before he makes a serious run for the WH. That's just my opinion, though.

On edit: Plus, I have to admit, I'm sick of the southern accent thing.
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Doctor Pedantic Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. He'll Be Around For A Long Time
Edwards has a lot going for him, but I'd like to see him get some more political experience before gunning for the big prize. He's young and talented (and, of course, dreamy), and he'll be a force to reckon with in the future.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm sick of the southern accent thing.
You just busted me up. I don't know if you were trying to, but you did.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. the accent says more about class than geography,
Regardless of where you're from geographically, if you're working or lower middle class, you hear that accent and you get a sense of where the speaker's from, in terms of life experience. That's why it's so important. With Edwards it says something true about where he's from and a lot of the people Democrats need to energize will be energized by that.

In my mind, the only hurdle Edwards needs to get over is this sense that American presidents need to be entitled or endowed with something more than the average person...they need to be better than us, like they have to be generals, or born rich, or sons of famous people or famous people themselves.

Once Americans realize that being endowed with the typical American experience, and a willingness to work hard, and a sense of obligation toward and compassion for people who have had your same experience is probably the most important thing a president should have, then people will start to embrace Edwards.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. to emphasize, it's not that Edwards is young or 'inexperienced'
Edited on Fri Aug-29-03 01:00 PM by AP
that is his problem. Those are proxies for people's real feelings. It's that people think, shouldn't he be better than me? Shouldn't he have a Yale degree? People better start warming up to the idea that the best president you can have is someone who knows exactly where you're coming from, and we don't need to be ruled by princes.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. He is better than me.
I don't know this for a fact, but I would bet the guy is a genius and he must have incredible determination. He literally went from working in a mill to help out his family to getting himself through college and law school to being one of the top trial lawyers in the country by time he was like 40. He is a multi-millionaire who got his multi-millions by using brains and grit.

Oh, oh! And I also heard a internet thing of his wife Elizabeth speaking and she is almost as good as he is in front of an audience. Perfect First Lady material.
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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Ditto!
I just like Dean and Kerry more.

I agree (but I'll add DK to that comment.

I think Edwards is like Al Gore, election-wise...he'll run and lose in the primary now, and be a big player (and win) in the future.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Have you ever heard him?
His isn't that bad.

Of course, I have never lived further north than southern NC, so maybe I can't hear it.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think Edwards will catch fire soon
I'm a Kucinich guy, but when I first saw John Edwards and heard him speak, I thought:"this guy is going to be the next president of the United States. I still believe he will, although it has been slow going. He has some serious political skills-the right look, great speaker, from the South, humble beginnings etc. Edwards gave, in my opinion, the most daring, dead-on and best speech of this last year at Georgetown University in June. I'll attach the link, because this is a must read. The guy will catch on, I'm pretty sure of it.

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/page.asp?id=125
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George_Bonanza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Probably needs more experience, in the times we're in
He has no experience in politics really, let alone more complicated matters like foreign affairs and diplomacy. He probably would make an excellent nominee one day, just not in 2004. Maybe he needs to be VP first.
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BrewCrew Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. unions
Hey not sure what union you're in or have a connection to, but edwards actually has a very strong record on labor issues, especially trade. And it's that issue the really hurts a lot of those other contenders in my eyes. Edwards has voted against Fast Track, Foreign Steel dumping, Chile and Singapore Trade argreements. His only folly was China PNTR. He of course has not been leading on these issues like Gephardt nor as vocal as Dennis, but his record is pretty solid. Plus, I bet if he could vote again he'd change his China vote. We all make mistakes.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. The only drawback
that anybody has said about Edwards is that he is young, (the man is FIFTY, not twelve) and that he needs more experience. But by general election time, he will have been in national politics for almost six years. That certainly equals or exceeds the amount of political experience that many successful Presidents have had.

He is strong on labor, strong on health care, strong on economic reform...he is just strong. He is burning Bush at the stake for his post-war ineptitude, his background and his tax cuts. He can explain his stand on the war and he is very cool under fire when he is attacked about it. He is a charismatic, intelligent speaker with passion and conviction and the more people actually see him, the more people are going to like him. And when you see him in person, you would swear that the man is bulletproof. He does not put his foot in his mouth. He gets impassioned, but not angry. He lost his oldest child in a car accident several years ago and decided to change his life and go into public service. His father was a millworker, his mother was a postal worker and he is the first kid in his family to go to college. He is a self-made millionaire that earned his money taking on corporations that hurt the little guy, or at least that's his story and he is sticking to it. The talents that made him a brilliant trial lawyer make him uncannily cool under fire and allow him to present himself and his 'case' just about flawlessly.

I think he is the all around most electable person running, period. What can the Bush attack machine do? Other than say he is a relative Washington newbie? And that can be spun to say that at least he is not a Beltway insider.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. I've been reading through Edwards's "Real Solutions" booklet
Edited on Fri Aug-29-03 01:05 PM by AP
and my response is, 'isn't this guy in the pockets of any interest group?" And I realize, oh yeah. He isn't. He owes nothing to anybody. He is entirely self made, and can turn around and go back to his two-person law firm which only relies on the continuing greed and negligence of huge corporations to find work.

If he's in politics any longer, I'll there's more of a risk that he'll become a worse politician because he might have to rely on interest groups to keep his seat. He's a great politician right now, and he has exactly the kind of experience you need to be a great president.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. That is EXACTLY what
I think!! It seems like 'experience' oftentimes equals 'compromising'. I LIKE the fact that he doesn't owe any special interest group anything right now. And he sure as hell didn't make his money by sucking up to ANY corporation, so he can pretty much say "Screw you" and still be fine.

Like, does anybody wonder WHY we have the highest gas prices ever and they haven't released ANY oil reserves??
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. I like him - he's my number 2 choice
as a matter of fact, I would be VERY happy with a Kerry/Edwards ticket.
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Doctor Pedantic Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Before the Dean Insurgency
I kind of thought we'd end up with a John-John ticket. Wouldn't that be cute?

Of course, we can't afford to lose two senators....
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yup
Edwards Minnesota television campaign is an early test to see how well spent that money would be in both Iowa and New Hampshire.

AS someone in the miswest recently said, of Deans attempt to tyake on Paul Wellstones mantle with his ripoff of Wellstones comment about the democratic wing "I dont want someone pretending to be a Wellstone. I want a Wellstone".

Edwards will do alright, and to be honest, I think by the end of the year, he will bump Dean from his position in Iowa.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. No reason at all.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. Edwards wrote the Patriot Act and likes the war in Iraq.
Otherwise he's not that bad of a Democrat.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Have a link for that?
He didn't write the Patriot Act.

Or maybe, you can tell me how a junior Senator from North Carolina was allowed to draft major legislation and get 98 senators to vote for it--all by his lonesome.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Here:
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Hehehehe.
The only place I've ever seen that Edwards wrote the Patriot Act was DU, and it's been examined and debunked, but I continue to read it from time to time! Oy!
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Oh, well, if YOU say so....
What other proof would someone need??
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. tjdee got it....
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. That is total BS
He doesn't "Like the war in Iraq" any more than any other Senator who voted for it did. Edwards speaks out tirelessly about how the Bush administration has screwed up in Iraq. He SAID that he was convinced AT THE TIME that Hussein offered a threat and he voted, as did many, many other people, to allow for the possibility of military action after all courses of dipolmacy had been exhausted. Oh, yeah, that sounds like somebody who really loves the war.

As for writing the Patriot Act, that was GRAHAM.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. I'm an Edwards supporter, and since I'm the only one here...
Edited on Fri Aug-29-03 11:37 AM by tjdee
I was hoping one of the other Edwards supporters replied here, because I don't say things as well as some of them.

But since I'm here...

There is no reason not to like John Edwards. The reason he is not getting much attention is because he is a first term senator. The lawyer thing is ridiculous--some 25 or 26 presidents have been lawyers/have law degrees. So would Dubya if he wasn't rejected from law school. Abe Lincoln was a trial lawyer, and as far as I can tell, Edwards was an Atticus Finch lawyer who just happened to make more money than Atticus. Most of his cases were for people vs. big companies. How is that bad?

I think his message is very strong. He is the most optimistic, by far--as I've said before, I feel that Edwards has a vision for the country that goes far beyond just fixing what Bush has screwed up.

He makes excellent points about 'the rich' paying their fair share, about people not having a voice in the government because of lobbyists and the people George Bush likes so much... he seems to 'get it'. The only weakness Edwards has is his inexperience, but George Bush and the Republicans themselves have paved that road--remember when Gore was a 'career politician', and when Lautenberg and Mondale was 'too old and too experienced'? Not to mention, this then means there's nothing Bush can attack him with. Not one thing.

Mostly though, John Edwards can get Bush from a fundamentally basic level. Two guys, about the same age, and one has gotten to the top by being Daddy's baby--and the other worked himself through college and law school. He's really from the south, and has probably cleared more brush than Faux Tex ever will.

I could spend time going into specific policy instances, but it really comes down to whether you like and trust somebody. As cerebral and intelligent as everyone on this board claims they are, it all comes down to whether a)you think a guy can beat Bush, and b)whether you think they'll be able to do the job well. I think both of John Edwards.

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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I am also an Edwards supporter
and I did write a reply.

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. maybe
maybe he doesn't get attention because he tells the truth about the corporate whores which includes big media.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Corporate whores cannot be excited about having Edwards...
become a front runner. Since he has made a pretty darn good living from knowing how to hit them where it hurts.
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zekeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks all!
I appreciate all the instruction. I've learned a lot and got some resources to get more. I get frustrated that our media gets so focused on so few candidates and have hoped to see more discussion of the less popular candidates here at DU.

thanks for playing!
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. He seems like a really nice guy.
I don't agree with a number of his votes. But I get that he is honest and would do his best as President. When he says that he cares about laborers and the poor, I believe him. I've seen him boldy take unpopular positions despite the fact that the audience disagreed with him on those positions. Personally, I agree more with Kucinich on the issues.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Thanks
I respect your preference. Thanks for respecting ours. That is refreshing.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
34. Sorry!
I don't want to convince you. I trust you to make up your own mind. I'll share my perception of Edwards, though.

I haven't ranked the candidates; I have a candidate who most closely matches my vision, and then there's the rest. If I group them, he's in a small group of 2nd choices.

His supporters have done a good job outlining the plusses.

My only concern with Edwards is his education platform. He says some really great things, and makes some good points. But, like the NCLB that he touts, there are hidden barbs. He talks frankly about helping teachers and also holding them accountable. That's fine. But with his support of NCLB, unless I hear him publicly oppose high-stakes testing I can't trust him on education. That's my profession, so it's a sore point.

I got to ask my candidate about this issue in person, and was happy with the answer. I personally wish all 9 candidates would come out with a clear position on high stakes testing. That would put all of the education rhetoric into perspective.

Outside of that, I like Edwards. I'd vote for him with a clear conscience in the general election. For the primary, I'm enthusiastically bestowing my vote on Dennis Kucinich.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. You should send an email to realsolutions@johnedwards2004.com
and tell them you think his booklet, Real Solutions for America, should address this issue.

Personally, I feel that testing (although some teachers I know like it) is a way to make money for testing companies. I was surprised that Real Solutions didn't discuss this issue. It's the kind of thing Edwards seems to be against -- transfers of tax payer wealth in the guise of policy.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I think there are several reasons why it doesn't show up
in the candidate's public positions. First and foremost, the general public doesn't see it in action on a daily basis like we do. They're not in the meetings or the classroom. So it's not a big issue to them.

Secondly, the candidates that are currently in congress all voted for NCLB. It has many provisions which sound great and would actually be very helpful; the high-stakes testing portion was not understood. I don't think most of the candidates realize even now that they were PNAC'ed with it. Or, as I like to call it, "ENAC'ed."

Third, the words "standards" and "accountability" and "test scores" make for good rhetoric. It would be hard to come out against legislation that hides behind buzzwords like these.

Still, when I hear dem candidates tossing those words around, the hair on the back of my neck rises, because I know what they really mean. I have written to several of the candidates asking for their positions, and plan to get to the rest of them soon. So far, I've gotten no response from any except Kucinich. I was at one of his rallies and put the question to him there. He fired back a fast, strong response about not supporting "testocrats" who profit off of parental fears; supporting putting the joy and creativity back into education instead.

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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. HOLY COW!
"So far, I've gotten no response from any except Kucinich. I was at one of his rallies and put the question to him there. He fired back a fast, strong response about not supporting "testocrats" who profit off of parental fears; supporting putting the joy and creativity back into education instead."

You mean there's MORE I have in common with Kucinich? Yeesh this is downright scary sometimes! My kids might see the inside of a classroom yet if we can get him elected. I yanked my oldest out to homeschool her two years ago. She was having anxiety so bad it was causing her migraines about every other day. I finally decided that if the school environment was THAT stressful she couldn't possibly be benefitting from the education, so now she's at home. It blew me away because I specifically settled on the house we bought because I know the school system is first-rate. Even so when you've got a kid who misses 2-3 days out of every week because she's got a migraine and spends a whole day vomiting, it's time to do something drastic.

Kids learn constantly! It's built into them, and I don't think they can help it! Heck I'm 35 years old and still learning new things. That's how it should be for every child, learning because it's a thrill to develop new insight and skills.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. You're nailing the issue here.
Anxiety, hating school, viewing learning as a dreadful chore that has to be done (and gotten over with as quickly as possible)....the standards and accountability movement has standardized this perception of learning.

And it's not just the kids. These days, the teachers have anxiety issues. Some dread showing up at work. We all more than dread showing up at staff meetings, where we know we'll have more laws, mandates, and spankings shoved down or up all orifices.

Here in CA, this has been going on for a decade. NCLB is modeled after state programs. CA under Pete Wilson, GW in Texas, Jeb in Florida, to name a few prominent policy makers.

To change things, we have to work at both the state and federal level.

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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. Carol Moseley Braun
Edited on Sun Aug-31-03 08:36 AM by gottaB
has been critical of testing, and as you know she is critical of NCLB and supports increased funding for public schools. She herself went to public schools.

It was a campaign issue for her in 1992 when her Republican opponent was firmly in favor of "testing" and "standards" and "accountability."

At the cdf forum she said:
The truth of the matter is that the federal government right now contributes less than 7 percent of the cost of elementary and secondary education, and pushes the rest of the cost onto states and local governments. This plan, which really is No Child Left, not No Child Left Behind, really is punitive and counterproductive in terms of providing quality education. For this program to suggest that the federal government is going to mandate a series of tests to segregate, isolate and otherwise identify "low performing schools," but not send any money to help the communities, help parents, help the local governments pay for schools, is just outrageous and not very thoughtful.

Here is what she said on the Senate floor when introducing the Moseley-Braun amendment 1376 to the Edudacate America Act of 1994.
Mr. President, this amendment would require the National Education Standards and Improvement Council, upon recommendation from a working group on voluntary national opportunity-to-learn standards, to certify voluntary national opportunity-to-learn standards which address:
The extent to which school facilities provide a safe and secure environment for learning and instruction and have the requisite libraries, laboratories, and other resources necessary to provide an opportunity to learn.
Mr. President, my amendment, which the U.S. House of Representatives has already included in its version of the Goals 2000: Educate America Act, is endorsed by the National Association of School Boards, the National Committee for Adequate School Housing, the National Education Association, the American Federation of Teachers, the Council of Great City Schools , the Council of Education Development and Research, the American Association of State Colleges, the American Association of School Administrators, the American Library Association, and the Council of Education Facilities Planners International.

I am an original cosponsor of the Goals 2000: Educate America Act, legislation which provides a coherent, national framework for education reform founded on the national education goals. Goals 2000 encourages States to meet the national education goals by authorizing $400 million to help them develop their own internationally competitive content and performance standards which define the knowledge and skills students need in order to compete in the emerging global economy. Goals 2000 also encourages States to meet the national education goals by authorizing the National Education Standards and Improvement Council to certify voluntary national content and performance standards.

Finally, this legislation also encourages States to measure their progress in meeting the national education goals by authorizing the National Education Standards and Improvement Council to certify assessments submitted voluntarily by States which measure the achievement of all students.

Nonetheless, Goals 2000 recognizes that there are possible dangers in assessing the achievement of students--especially economically and socially disadvantaged students. As I have already stated here on the Senate floor, Stephen Gould documents in his book, `The Mismeasure of Man,' how intelligence and achievement tests have been misused throughout history to rank people in a single series of worthiness, to find that oppressed people and disadvantaged groups--races, classes, or sexes--are invariably inferior and deserve their status. Goals 2000 limits these dangers by targeting funds to schools with large numbers of economically and socially disadvantaged students and by authorizing the National Education Standards and Improvement Council to certify voluntary national opportunity-to-learn standards. These standards will define the teaching and learning conditions students need in order to have a fair opportunity to achieve the knowledge and skills described in the voluntary national content and performance standards. More specifically, Goals 2000 requires the National Education Standards and Improvement Council to certify voluntary national opportunity-to-learn standards which address:

  • The quality and availability of curricula, instructional materials, and technology;

  • The capability of teachers to provide high-quality instruction;

  • The extent to which teachers and administrators have ready and continuing access to professional development; and

  • The extent to which curriculum, instructional practices, and assessments are aligned to content standards.

Mr. President, while I firmly believe that these educational inputs must be addressed when certifying voluntary national opportunity-to-learn standards, I am convinced that emerging education reforms are doomed unless we house them in adequate school facilities.

Mr. President, the problems facing public school facilities in this country have reached crisis proportions. The Education Writers Association has concluded that our Nation's education infrastructure needs $125 billion: $84 billion for new construction and $41 billion for maintenance and repairs. More specifically, EWA has reported that 25 percent of school buildings in this country are shoddy places for learning and that 61 percent of these inadequate schools need major repairs, 43 percent are obsolete, 42 percent are environmentally hazardous, 25 percent are overcrowded, and 13 percent are structurally unsound. Other studies have shown that the problems facing our Nation's school facilities are not limited to either rural or urban school districts. The Council of Great City Schools has found that New York City, Los Angeles, and Chicago need more than $1 billion each to repair old school buildings and to build new ones. Education researchers from three major research universities, on the other hand, have reported that one-half of all rural school buildings are unsafe, inadequate, and inaccessible to handicapped students.

In his book `Savage Inequalities,' Jonathan Kozol uses a series of interviews and personal observations to show the negative effects that inadequate school facilities can have on our Nation's children. Mr. Kozol quotes a 1989 St. Louis Post Dispatch story which reads `The Martin Luther King Junior High School was evacuated Friday afternoon after sewage flowed into the kitchen, gym, and parking lot.' Mr. Kozol then encourages his readers to see this school crisis through the eyes of a young girl who states: `We have a school in East St. Louis named for Doctor King. The school is full of sewer water and the doors are locked with chains. Every student in the school is black. It's like a terrible joke on history.' Mr. Kozol also quotes another student who is so frustrated with her school environment that she states: `I don't go to Physics class, because my lab has no equipment. I don't even use the toilets. If I do, I come back into class and I feel dirty'.

Mr. President, my amendment would increase educational opportunities for students in East St. Louis and throughout the country by requiring the National Education Standards and Improvement Council to certify voluntary national opportunity-to-learn standards which define the learning environment students need in order to have a fair chance to meet the voluntary national content and performance standards. More specifically, my amendment would require the Council to certify opportunity-to-learn standards which address the safety and security of school facilities and the need for adequate school facilities including laboratories and libraries. In effect, my amendment would further the efforts of Senator Simon who has worked tirelessly to highlight the importance of elementary and secondary school libraries.

Mr. President, I am proud to be a cosponsor of Senator Simon's Elementary and Secondary School Library Media Act because it addresses the fact that young people in correctional institutions often have better access to library facilities than average students.

Mr. President, although my amendment would require the National Education Standards and Improvement Council to address the quality of school facilities, it does not define any specific opportunity-to-learn standards. My amendment only encourages the Council to consider the quality of school facilities when defining the teaching and learning conditions students need in order to have a fair chance to achieve the knowledge and skills described in the voluntary national content and performance standards.

Mr. President, I would like to conclude my remarks by urging my colleagues to support my school facilities amendment.


I'm still looking for a more current and detailed statement. There must be one out there because Carol's record on education is exemplary in my book and she should be running on it. (On edit: I wanted to highlight her citation of Gould and Kozol. I realize this may seem tangential to the issue at hand, but I'm sure you can see the point. I got lazy searching thomas and google, but I'm all over it when I get back home next week.)
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Go, Carol!
Thanks for passing this on. It doesn't surprise me.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Good point
and one I would also like to see addressed. Testing can be PART of an evaluation, but should not be the sole tool used to measure a child's progress.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Yup, me too
I like Edwards quite a bit. He's my second choice, overall, although, I pretty much like every candidate in some way, shape or form. I think they all have good things to say here and there. For me, everything that Kucinich says hits home, however, in quick succession, I like much of what Edwards, Dean and Kerry are doing too. The others I am not as excited about, although, Bob Graham gets pretty salty every now and then. I admire that. I'd love to see Edwards bring up corrupt corporations in a debate with Bush. That would spell some serious trouble.
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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
42. My feelings
I don't like Edwards on foreign policy and spec. IWR. I don't like his support of the death penalty. I think 80 page pdfs are not the way to broadcast your message.

I do like that he respects the First Amendment. He voted against the banning of flag desecration amendment. I like that he understands and supports public defenders, and respects due process. I like his criticisms of EPA. He had been an early critic of Ashcroft viz. PATRIOT, but, of course, he signed the darned thing and that is a strike against him imo. His recent criticisms of EPA in the Senate and on the campaign trail are impressive.

Edward's views on the economy I have mixed feelings about. Generally I like his calls for reform and his neo-liberal approach to capitalism. However, I'm not sure that he isn't wishy-washy on trade. I just don't know. It's not the most important isssue to me (otherwise I'd be supporting Kucinich or Gep)--or rather, my own take on it is wishy-washy so I don't count it against Edwards. But I do have doubts.

I like his position on higher ed. and I believe he has called for more funding of Pell Grants and so on, but NCLB sucks rocks, and not just because it's underfunded.

Edwards was unambiguous in speaking out against the Confederate flag and that's courageous.
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