Ed Garvey: Kucinich stands for true Democratic principles

[dpbrown]

http://www.madison.com/captimes/opinion/column/guest/59911.php

Ed Garvey: Kucinich stands for true Democratic principles

By Ed Garvey
October 28, 2003

To begin, I must admit to liking and respecting most of the Democrats who are seeking our support for president.

I have marched with Al Sharpton, contributed to Carol Moseley Braun's Senate campaign, met Dick Gephardt in college, and admired John Kerry's courage in opposing the Vietnam War after serving with distinction. (Those who never served but now urge us on to more and more pre-emptive strikes should, at a minimum, suit up and join our forces in Iraq.)

I'm impressed with Howard Dean's use of the Internet to raise money from, as Jim Hightower says, "the alley cats instead of the fat cats." And he took a bold and correct stance in opposing the invasion of Iraq.

I don't think we need a former general, Wesley Clark, to explain that President Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld screwed up. That is obvious to the majority of Democratic voters and, by his recent memo, apparent to Rumsfeld himself.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

Published: 6:58 AM 10/28/03

http://www.fightingbob.com/

[JohnKleeb]

1. I just read that and we got Zinn, Glover

To hear that hes against that is Kucinich is against the school of the americas is a great thing too.

[genius]

8. Dennis has against the School of the Americas for a long time

He stands for all the right things and for bringing integrity back to the U.S.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I know genius

I just hadnt heard about that, but woohoo thats a great thing.

[ErasureAcer]

2. tell me something I don't know Ed.

Duh.

Kucinich is #1!

[JohnKleeb]

3. Ask a Wisconsan they can tell you

Seems like a good guy.

[CMT]

5. Ed Garvey is a very good progressive

ran for Governor of Wisconsin in 1998 against Tommy Thompson and did the best of any challenger to King Tommy winning 40% of the vote. He has stood up for progressive principles in all of his campaigns and proudly calls himself a liberal. I like him alot and was proud to volunteer for his campaign. He is an excellent endorsement for DK from the state of Wisconsin.

[gethmord]

4. Only one problem

The President has no power over NAFTA or the WTO

[no name no slogan]

6. It's called an "Executive Order"

and has been used by Presidents for many many years to do things that they knew might have a tough time getting passed through an overly partisan congress.

Besides, it wouldn't be instantaneous. It would not end international trade. It would return us to our previous bilateral agreements we had, in which we could negotiate on a country-by-country basis for things like living wages, workers rights, and anti-dumping policies that have ruined most poor countries' economies.

[dpbrown]

7. That's not true, as Bush showed with the Nuclear Treaty

Bush found a clause in the ICBM Treaty allowing the United States to withdraw from that treaty upon giving a specific length of time as a notice.

The same clauses are in NAFTA and the WTO.

Regardless, even if the threat of withdrawal is used as a lever to enact worker-protection and environmental-protection measures, it'll still be a win.

No other candidate has talked about using this kind of pragmatic pressure to either get out, or make the playing field level.

But the point remains, the President can give notice of withdrawal and then after a given period of time, we're out, just like Bush did with the ICMB Treaty.

[LWolf]

10. Strong bunch of new endorsements this week!

A campaign email today:

Dennis Kucinich's presidential campaign has just received endorsements from a number of prominent Americans, including actor and activist Danny Glover, author Howard Zinn, Democratic leader and former Wisconsin gubernatorial candidate and former head of the NFL players' union Ed Garvey, Founder of the School of the America's Watch Father Roy Bourgeois, Co-Founder of Global Exchange Kevin Danaher, the American Vegetarians, and Comedian Professor Irwin Corey.

The Kucinich campaign has also just been endorsed in the first primary state,New Hampshire, by the New Hampshire Green Party, and has also received the endorsement of the Kent County, Mich., Greens.

Danny Glover said: "I have watched Dennis Kucinich not only in the glory of a political campaign, but I have sat and dialogued with him and watched him learn from others, and of all the candidates he stands the closest to my conscience, and I must go with my conscience."

Howard Zinn, author of "A People's History of the United States," said: "I am happy to endorse Dennis Kucinich because of all the candidates for the Democratic nomination, he is the only one with a bold, clear, principled position against the war in Iraq, against U.S. militarism, in favor of the single payer health system, in favor of using the great wealth of our country to solve the needs of the American people."

<snip>

[JohnKleeb]

11. I had my morale boosted when I heard about this

Keep in mind it never makes me wanna switch but it does sadden me that a man like Dennis is ignored.

[NNadir]

12. This is an astounding claim, since apparently 98% of Democrats feel

differently.

I've been a Democrat for over 35 years. Kucinich doesn't stand up for my principles.

I suspect that many of the 2% of Democrats who support Kucinich today are members of the same 2% who voted for Nader in 2000. I don't regard these people as Democrats. I regard them as supercilious self-absorbed scolds who are at best weakly connected with reality.

(Given what I've learned of Kucinich, he is also weakly connected with reality.)

I am unimpressed.

If Kucinich represented "Democratic Principles" Democrats would support him. Judging from the polls, they don't. If he DOES represent Democratic principles, Democrats will support him.

[rdfi-defi]

16. easy there tuff guy

i've been a democrat for about 3.5 months. and your vote and opinion count in the same perportion as mine. kucinich does stand for a lot of peoples' principales such as helth care as a human right, the right for workers to orginize, fair trade, a sensable foreign policy......... you can belittle and hate the greens all you want but without the support of the greens and the democrats who think in similar terms, the democratic party will not be able to orginize the youth, the largest untapped voting resourse in the usa. if you marginalize these people now and the poor and working class people need "democratic principles" to survive in an ever more brutal economy, the working class will flock to the greens leaving what's left of the "democratic" party to either go repub. or form the moderate party. as far as being "connected to reality," working/poor people know more about reality than most. think ahead and please don't close your mind to kucinich's ideas or you may find yourself in need of some "democratic principles" sooner than you think.

[no name no slogan]

21. Welcome!

...and your absolutely right about the "youth vote". I just heard on NPR today that in the last presidential election, only 18% of eligible voters age 18-35 even BOTHERED to vote. That means we have OVER 80% of the potential population to work with!

Kucinich has attracted his share of young, intelligent supporters. Our very own JohnKleeb and wheresthemind (who's also the webmaster for www.minnesotaforkucinich.com) are both 16, and staunch Kucinich supporters. We always have kids at our events, and they are more than welcome to help out.

As I've told numerous people: Paul Wellstone made me a Democrat when I was 18 in 1987. Dennis Kucinich brought me back to the Democrats at age 34 in 2003.

:toast:

[JohnKleeb]

We got more than that but thanks

Alex does one of hell of a job there. Hes older than me though lol. You forgot about the others etc. I tell you, losing the primary wouldnt be defeat, defeat would be a continued erosion of the progressive values I cherish by the party I admire still.

[JohnKleeb]

22. We got more than that but thanks

Alex does one of hell of a job there. Hes older than me though lol. You forgot about the others etc. I tell you, losing the primary wouldnt be defeat, defeat would be a continued erosion of the progressive values I cherish by the party I admire still.

[rdfi-defi]

25. thanks nnns

brews all around

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Welcome, rdfi-defi!

Nice to have you on board.

:hi:

[rdfi-defi]

26. thanks to you to lleftcoast

[no name no slogan]

17. Nice try, but you're wrong

I forgot the URL, but there is a survey that best matches up your political beliefs with each of the candidates. OVER 60% of those who have taken the poll line up with Kucinich on the issues.

Dennis is drawing in a lot of revived democrats, such as myself, who have sat out the last couple presidential elections because we didn't see a candidate who stood up for our shared DEMOCRATIC VALUES: fair trade, workers' rights, a livable wage, a rational defense budget, a sane foreign policy that isn't "shoot first, ask questions later", universal health care, and equal rights for everyone, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.

I, too have been a Democrat for many, many years, from one of the most progressively Democratic states in the union (MN). My great-grandfather, a solid Democrat, ran for alderman of the city of Minneapolis during the 1930s & 1940s, when Hubert H. Humphrey was mayor. Both he and my grandfather (his son) received Christmas cards from Humphrey until Humphrey's death in 1978.

Dennis Kucinich's message isn't much different from the message that Humphrey spoke of at the 1948 convention, when he espoused a strong civil rights platform (which caused Strom Thurmond to run as a "Dixiecrat" for president).

His message is also very similar to the one espoused by FDR: rebuilding this country's infrastructure, and changing our spending priorities to provide for a REAL national defense, not one based on the whims of Lockheed, Haliburton and the other defense contractors.

His message also has precidents in JFK and LBJ: imagining a better society than what we have, providing for the least fortunate of us and the downtrodden so that they may succeed.

Even in Jimmy Carter, you can see parts of Kucinich's message: he has a plan for a REAL peace solution in Israel/Palestine that obeys current UN resolutions and gives each side a VIABLE state for its people-- incidentally, the same solution espoused by mainline Palestinian and dovish Israeli groups as well.

So please don't go around saying that Dennis Kucinich's platform isn't that of the Democratic Party. Because it's steeped in the traditions of those who came before us, and also addresses the contemporary needs of this society.

If that's not the message of the Democratic Party to you, then maybe you've been in a different Democratic Party.

:eyes:

[MrSoundAndVision]

18. Appearance

Actually, I didn't vote for Nader, and thought those who did (at the time) wasted their votes and helped Bush become elected. But, you see, BUSH WASN'T ELECTED! So don't blame them.
And I say that it is time for Democratic voters to change if what you say is true. Now isn't the time to preach conventional wisdom and that the people known best: the people are lied to, repeatedly, every day. SO in this occasion they don't know best. And it is the job of us, as seers, as connoseurs of politics, to speak
truth, not to quote polls.

[JohnKleeb]

19. There you go again

generalizes us as all greens. I am not a green. What are "democratic principles" of yours, I havent been a democrat for 35 years because I am too young but there are plenty more democrats out there who have been there longer who support Kucinich. Also btw the polls dont add up to 100% yet, a lot of undecideds.

[snoochie]

20. You just never get tired of reciting spin points about Kucinich,...

the people that support him, and Nader's "2 percent".

You must be deliberately using this fictitious number, because I've seen you taken to task for it before!

You know just as well as anyone that many people who would rather have voted for someone like Nader actually voted for GORE, because they (for some wacky kooky reason you don't seem to perceive) UNDERSTAND a third-party candidates' chances of actually winning an election in the current system.

So please please PLEASE stop with the 2 percent canard.

[NNadir]

28. Sorry, it's not 2% in New Hampshire. Zogby has it at zero, 0, zilch...

Look, I don't really care. Zero, 1, 2, 3 or 4; there is NO evidence except your own (very inflated) reports of yourselves that Kucinich is going anywhere. Nor should he. He just doesn't have a presidental quality. He didn't even have a mayoral quality when he was running Cleveland via confrontation, sulking and skulking. While he introduces bills, some of them crazy like HR 2977, and some that are comparatively normal, he doesn't get them passed.

It is annoying for me of course, to hear from the Kucinich corps why they represent the Democrats when they clearly have no mandate whatsoever to make this claim. It does indeed remind me of Naderism. Here are some Naderist features:

1) A claim of momentous victory not backed up by any real numbers.

2) Wild and grand pronouncements without any practical plan for accomplishing the aims stated in them.

3) Nitpicking whining about the flaws of any candidate who is not Nader-Kucinich.

4) A history of disregard for women's rights.

5) Continual lectures on what constitutes being "progressive".

6) Contempt for compromise in favor of inflexible pronouncements of exclusive rectitude.

7) Incredible "what if" schemes that claim that they will soon convince the world to come to their side.

8) Bitter claims that they're somehow being denied access to debate, without even considering the possibility that the are boring and no one actually cares about what they have to say.

I could go on but, noting that Nader has more or less endorsed Kucinich, I'll abbreviate the list here.

This is still a democracy, and of course Kucinich can stay in the race forever, maybe as long as Alan Keyes did for the Repukes in 2000 (which was almost up to the convention.) From my perspective, he just taking up space (which is probably a good thing, since through his spaceman best friend Chuck Griscom, Kucinich is obsessed with Space).

Kucinich is nowhere near the best the Democratic Party can offer. We have people who are competant, literate, thoughtful, successful and with histories of accomplishment. If Kucinich had any connection with reality he would, like the incomparably brighter, more honorable and more sensible Bob Graham, get back to the real world and the real business of defeating Bush. Maybe Kucinich can spend a few more years in congress and learn, for instance, what it takes to get a bill passed. As for his Presidential ambitions, at some point, a la Nader, it becomes a matter of putting one's ego above one's country. This is possibly the most serious state that the country has been in since the Great Depression; maybe even since the Civil War. Under such conditions, winning - in this case by defeating Bush - is more important than ever. We'll see pretty soon where Kucinich stands on that point. From my perspective, he's just a loud loser whose schtick is approaching the point of diluting the message for the dubious privilege of hearing himself talk on television.

[diamondsoul]

27. Well aren't you just so helpful to Dr. Dean-

Yes, indeed, insulting me, my candidate and thousands of other registered votered is exactly the way to make sure the Democratic Nominee wins in 2004.:eyes:

Supercilious, self-absorbed....hmmm, sounds slightly familiar to someone on this very thread.

Interestingly enough, I think I can speak for most Kucinich supporters on this board when I say we are also unimpressed with your high and mighty attitude, condescension and vitriol.

Oh, and just FTR, I've been a registered Democrat since I was 18, and knew I was a Democrat for a great many years before that so get off your high horse.

[Mairead]

29. I've asked this before: are you NaderNadir from SmirkingChimp.com?

Because if you are, then I can certainly believe that your right-wing views aren't anything like Dennis's.

[redqueen]

34. I think it is.

He has the same regurgitation there as well.

I love it -- how's this for a Catch 22?

Because Kucinich is the antithesis of corporate power over people & government, the media is making sure people no zilch about him; because people know little to nothing about him, the support candidates they either know a little about or at least know the name and know some supporters they respect; because he has no support due to this vicious cycle, other people who prefer his policies don't support him because it's a 'lost cause' and he's 'unelectable'; because so many who say they support his ideals don't support him, he loses, and big corporate power (especially media) is allowed to pick the next canddiate and on and on ad infinitum.

What I don't get is why people are so willing to let corporate media tell them who to vote for!

I mean, if you have serious policy disagreements with the Kooch, fine. But from what I've seen here, that's not usually the case.

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

It would be funny if I didn't think this just might be the LAST time we get to have a say in who runs the place.

[Mairead]

37. You're right, I checked and it is -- same sig

What I don't get is why people are so willing to let corporate media tell them who to vote for!

My sense is that most people really don't want to believe that the press has become almost completely corrupted (I mean, who would want to believe that?), and they don't have any other sources of information that they can digest quickly, so....

[dpbrown]

30. Kucinich has beaten three Republican incumbents, Dean - none

Kucinich has beaten incumbent Republicans for three separate offices in Ohio. His re-elect percentage has grown each time. He now takes 74% of the vote in his district. He gets 50% of the Republican vote in his district.

Compare Dean, who never beat an incumbent Republican to take a part-time job as State Representative for Chittenden District 7-4, and who never beat an incumbent Republican to become Governor of Vermont. His re-elect percentages as Governor dropped each time. In 2002, he declined to run, rather than risk being beaten by Republican Jim Douglas. Instead, his Lt. Governor, Doug Racine, ran against Douglas and got beat instead of Dean (who would have lost to Douglas). Vermont is now governed by a Republican. Great record for securing wins for the Democrats there, Howard.

If what you're looking for is an absorption into the Republicans and an eventual merger, then Dean may be your man.

The bottom line is Kucinich has a better record of beating Republicans than Dean does, and he's taken three separate seats from Republicans - Cleveland Mayor, State Senate District 23, and Ohio Congressional District 10.

Every one of those seats is now held by Democrats.

Compare Howard Dean - who has never, ever beaten an incumbent Republican.

Ever.

All of the seats that Kucinich won from Republican incumbents are now held by Democrats.

None of the seats Dean won, never even ever beating a Republican incumbent for, are now by Democrats.

Dennis Kucinich has an infinitely more defensible record of appealing to voters across the board, and securing seats in government for Democrats than Howard Dean does.

In fact, Dennis Kucinich took his State Senate seat away from a Republican incumbent in 1994, when most switches were going the other way, in the middle of the Gingrich revolution.

It's beyond disingenuous to imply that "polls" reflect the reality on the ground that Kucinich beats Republicans, and Dean doesn't.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[goodhue]

13. choices

http://www.madison.com/captimes/opinion/column/guest/59911.php

I've written before that if Dean, Kerry or Dennis Kucinich wins the nomination, I'll be dancing in the street. And I must say that if Dick Gephardt wins, that's OK with me.

But primaries are about choices. When I ran for the Senate, I was opposed by a popular chair of the Democratic Party and by a state senator. I had to ask fellow Democrats to choose.

When we think back to Robert La Follette's reforms, the guts of the reforms rested on the selection of good candidates by the people, not the bosses. So I had to put people in the uncomfortable position of making a choice. If they chose someone else, that did not reduce them in my view nor did it make them "bad" progressives. They made a choice based on a myriad of issues, personalities or values.

The important thing is to make a choice, and I have made mine in the Democratic primary. I support, without any hesitation, the person I believe best articulates and lives our progressive values, Dennis Kucinich.

http://www.fightingbob.com/

Ed Garvey, the Democratic nominee for governor in 1998, is a Madison lawyer and the editor of the fightingbob.com Web site. E-mail: [e-mail]

[goodhue]

14. bold action

http://www.madison.com/captimes/opinion/column/guest/59911.php

Now the chickenhawks who don't mind sending the sons and daughters of the poor and working families into harm's way scoff at such a notion. Well, I don't know about you but the chickenhawks have as much credibility on "war" as Rush Limbaugh has on rehabilitation and addiction.

It is time for bold action, and Dennis Kucinich is the one who speaks out, tells the truth and makes the DLC cringe.

You know who else cringes? The Republicans, because with a choice between pre-emptive George Bush and Dennis Kucinich, guess who would get out and vote? Every Democrat, independent and Green in America. When we get a big turnout, we win. When we don't, the Republicans win. Offer the people a real choice and we win. Offer them Republican lite and get ready for Patriot Act II.

When you elect people to office, you can't stand over their shoulder day in and day out to determine if they are true to their word. Nor do we expect to be consulted on every action or vote, but we certainly don't expect them to hold a moistened finger in the air to see what is popular. We want people with integrity. We want a Bob Kastenmeier, Bobby Kennedy or Paul Wellstone. And I add one name to that group: Dennis Kucinich.

[snoochie]

15. Great editorial!

Thanks for sharing this! :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. I learned something at this evening's Kucinich volunteers meeting

Our co-chairs are in touch with the Iowa campaign, and recently they (the Iowa campaign) been contacting people who were caucus delegates for Jesse Jackson in 1988. They're finding that a surprising number of these people have not been to a caucus since 1988, and some have not even voted.

I didn't hear whether they were persuaded to support Kucinich, but what that story tells me is that there are a lot of non-participants out there who are waiting to be inspired. Whatever you think of Jesse Jackson, he is an inspiring public speaker who isn't afraid to speak his mind, and I suppose that subsequent candidates must have seemed bland by comparison.

[no name no slogan]

31. I should have gone to the meeting :(

Damn, I shoulda been there last night! That's EXCELLENT NEWS! Jesse's showing in Iowa scared the bejeebus out of Dukakis in 1988-- I was there, working for Dukakis, and I remember!

If we can get his folk on board, we're gonna give the country a SHOCK.

(Oh and BTW keep an eye on DK's national site. It's getting a facelift IIRC within the next few days. As is the MN site, too!)

:toast:

[dpbrown]

32. Yes, you shoulda!

Make sure you don't miss the next one!

:spank:

[ThirdWheelLegend]

33. just a friendly..boot to the top

kick!



TWL

[goodhue]

35. keep it kicked

A positive post like this deserves it.

[The Sushi Bandit]

36. Great Article!!