I was wrong

[dsc]

Thanks to several Kerry supporters I know I was quite wrong to have defended Kerry when he said ingards to the 2000 election "Get over it" and "we have to stop crying in our tea cups."

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/10_kerry.html

At the time I said Kerry should be judged by the sensible context of what he said. But thanks to them in threads linked below I now know better. Clearly the standard by which candidates should be judged on what they say is what misleading sound bites can be generated by cutting and clipping them. So to all those I lectured on this in the past I humbly apologize.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=73163&mesg_id=73163

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=73194&mesg_id=73194

[indigo32]

1. LOL

eom

[MrSoundAndVision]

2. well you're wrong again, but not because of deliberate...

misleading of you. Kucinich is the one who should win your support: he is the only one who will take us out of Iraq thereby rejoining the world community, he is the only one who will end this incremental health care system stealing our money by beginning a single payer health care system (meaning a single payer, the govt, to privately run institutions), he's cancel the WTO and NAFTA (then shoes worn by Americans may again be made by Americans).

Please click on http://www.kucinich.us and read his faq and this:

http://www.kucinich.us

Join us. You're invited. I supported Dean also a few months ago. Thanks.

[Padraig18]

3. Yep, 3 attacks on the same subject are about to change my mind, too. n/t

[Padraig18]

4. Kick

[LuminousX]

5. Don't Worry, you didn't realize Kerry is a Liar

Kerry Lies, Distorts, and Panders

Iraq

10/13
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry said on Sunday President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney should apologize for misleading the American people about the war in Iraq and called the international fighting force there a "fraud."
Kerry criticized Bush and Cheney for justifying the war, in part, by saying Iraq was "on the road" to building nuclear weapons, which the senator said has been proven not to be true.
He also slammed the administration for not working adequately with the international community to win backing for the war and not building the broad military coalition in Iraq that was promised.
"I'm asserting very clearly that they misled America," Kerry said on ABC's "This Week" news program. "I think the president and Vice President Cheney should be apologizing to America," he added.
http://chblue.com/artman/publish/article_3259.shtml

10/14
“I voted to hold Iraq accountable and hold Saddam Hussein accountable. That was the right vote for the defense of the United States of America.”

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/elec04.prez.kerry.dean.ap/index.html

Either it was justified or it wasn’t. This is a case of ‘cake and eating it too’

Cuban Sanctions
Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, a Democratic candidate for president who has campaigned heavily in Florida for cash and votes, appeared to shift his stance on the trade embargo with Cuba on Sunday, telling a national television audience that he now supports keeping sanctions in place.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/6666091.htm

Voted NO on Strengthening of the trade embargo against Cuba.

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Foreign_Policy.htm

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to Cuba before we take a break. This is what John Kerry said a few years ago regarding Fidel Castro in Cuba. “Senator John Kerry...said in an interview that a re-evaluation of relations with Cuba was ‘way overdue.’ ‘We have a frozen, stalemated, counterproductive policy...There is just a complete and total contradiction between the way we deal with China, the way we dealt with Russia, the way we have been dealing with Cuba...The only reason we don’t re-evaluate the policy is the politics of Florida.’”
SEN. KERRY: That’s an honest statement.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you consider lifting sanctions, lifting the embargo against Cuba?
SEN. KERRY: Not unilaterally, not now, no.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you lessen travel restrictions?
SEN. KERRY: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: How?
SEN. KERRY: I’d like to get people traveling in there. I think that people traveling in there weakens Castro. I want to do what it takes to weaken Fidel Castro. I don’t like Fidel Castro. Some people have cottoned to him in our party and go down and visit. I went to Cuba once and I purposely said I don’t want to. I...
MR. RUSSERT: But, Senator, we trade with Russia, we trade with China, why not trade with Cuba?
SEN. KERRY: I don’t think we should do that automatically. Because I think you want to get something for something, and I think that you should re-evaluate, and I agree—I mean, I don’t change what I said. But I think we need to move step by step in a way that begins to engage and see what we can do. But I wouldn’t just give him a reward for nothing, no.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/960385.asp

Either the embargo stays in place or it is lifted. His reasoning for keeping it are weak, especially seeing how we’ve treated China in the past. Why the change from wanting to examine lifting the embargo to not wanting to? Could it be a flip-flop to pander to Florida?

Taxes
Flip: In December 2002, Kerry said, "We should encourage the measurement of the real value of companies by ending the double taxation of dividends."
Flop: Throughout 2003, Kerry opposed President Bush's tax plan, which, according to Bush, would eliminate the "double taxation on dividends." In May, Kerry voted against the final plan, which cut but didn't eliminate the tax on corporate dividends.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2088214/

Is this Political expediency?

Medical Marijuana

At an August 6 event hosted by his campaign, GSMM's Linda Macia asked Kerry, "On the day you take office, will you stop the DEA raids?" Kerry offered to "clarify" his earlier remarks, saying, "My personal disposition is open to the issue of medical marijuana. I believe there is a study underway analyzing what the science is. I want to get that scientific review" before making any decisions. He said he would "put a moratorium on the raids" pending this review, but he didn't commit to any long-term action to protect patients from arrest.
http://www.granitestaters.com/guide/kerry.html

MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE -- Questioned at a campaign event last night by members of Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana, Democratic presidential candidate U.S. Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) retreated from his previous support of medical marijuana.
During the Manchester forum, broadcast live on C-SPAN, GSMM member Linda Macia, who suffers from several debilitating illnesses for which conventional medications have not provided relief, thanked Kerry for his July 2 statement of support, provoking audience applause. She then asked Kerry about the Drug Enforcement Administration's raids on patients using medical marijuana under California law.
"On the day you take office, will you stop the DEA raids?" Macia asked.
Kerry then offered to "clarify" his earlier remarks, saying, "My personal disposition is open to the issue of medical marijuana. I believe there is a study underway analyzing what the science is. I want to get that scientific review," before making any decisions. He said he would "put a moratorium on the raids" pending this review but would not commit to any long-term action to protect patients from arrest.
It is unclear what "review" Kerry meant. An exhaustive review of medical marijuana data was released by the Institute of Medicine in 1999 and reported that some seriously ill patients might benefit from marijuana. No similar study is known to be underway at present.
At the conclusion of the forum -- again captured by C-SPAN's cameras -- GSMM Campaign Coordinator Aaron Houston asked Kerry what study he was referring to, and Kerry replied, "I am trying to find out. I don't know." Despite this, he again refused to pledge a permanent end to arrests of patients "until that analysis is done."
http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr080703gsmm.html

What study is he talking about? He doesn’t even know. That is not like Senator Kerry, which implies he was flip flopping on the issue, or he was just out and out lying about supporting medical marijuana. One or the other.

Affirmative Action

Three years earlier, John Kerry expressed similar concerns about affirmative action creating reverse discrimination. In a speech at Yale University, Kerry said he supports affirmative action, which he lauded for opening doors for women, creating a black middle class and diversifying campuses, but he said the policy had costs as well as benefits.

"There exists a reality of reverse discrimination that actually engenders racism," he said. Later, he added, "We cannot hope to make further racial progress when the plurality of whites believe, as they do today according to recent data, that it is they, not others, who suffer most from discrimination."

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-democrats-affirmative-action,0,4828392.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

Is that a firm statement of support for Affirmative Action?

[Mairead]

6. I feel a real sense of embarrassment and pain on Kerry's behalf

(and on his supporters') when I read two-steps like your quotes. He used to be better than that, lots better. I can't imagine what happened to him...it just doesn't seem to make sense for someone with his record.

[killbotfactory]

7. Does Kerry ever give a straight answer?

Or does he always phrase it in a way that's leaves a backdoor to waffle?

[Padraig18]

9. Correction: Kerry doesn't 'waffle'

Kerry 'nuances'. :P

[LuminousX]

11. He always makes himself 'the thinnest target'

He doesn't take risks. He will not stand up for things that are risky.

[DrFunkenstein]

14. Please Allow Me To Quickly Trash Your Arguments

1. Iraq - What is the problem with wanting to hold Saddam accountable and still suggesting that Bush presented misleading evidence. Dean said the same. Would you like quotes again?

2. Cuba - Kerry never said the sanctions should be lifted. What is the problem with wanting firm conditions before they are lifted, especially given Castro's recent actions. Again, Dean's position is the same.

3. Taxes - Slate provides the context (you left out): Kerry believed the tax cut would do little to stimulate the economy, considering the deficit and the war in Iraq. In regard to the dividend tax and his position switch, he said, "I don't support eliminating the dividend tax now under any circumstances at this moment. I support it in the context of tax reform overall, in which case not doubly taxing income I would think is an important principle."

4. Medical Marijuana - Once more, his position is virtually indistinguishable from Dean's. As for the study, Kerry said "I believe there is a study underway." I'm not sure how this entails a flip flop, but I can tell you that he would stop DEA raids while research is done on the issue, but would not say that this would continue indefinitely.

5. Affirmative Action - Kerry's position is exactly that of progressive scholar Cornel West - AA is inherently flawed, but its the best we have until something better comes along. Hey, that's my position, too!

---

If you ever have any other arguments you want me to slap around, let me know.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcos]

10. What surprises me is that this is old news...

There have been several threads were Dean's comments have been discussed? I personally agree with him, but even if someone disagrees, why jump on them now? This just shows how desperate they are.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=87418#87811
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=21662

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Dean has made a NEW statement about wanting the votes of

those who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flags in the windows. This statement is less nuanced than his earlier one, hence the controversy.

[Punkingal]

13. locking....

This has links to locked threads.

punkingal, DU moderator