Did these SOUTHERN, BLACK, Baptists have a problem with Dean's remarks?

[Sean Reynolds]

Sharpton, Dean begin S.C. campaign trail

SNIP:

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean told a group of Mount Moriah Baptist Church parishioners Thursday in Spartanburg that he had a plan to promote racial harmony in South Carolina.

SNIP:

At Dean's rally, there was little mention of the Confederate flag. "There's no reason why white guys who have a Confederate flag in the back of their pickup truck shouldn't be walking side-by-side with blacks, because they don't have health insurance, either," Dean said.

But, he didn't touch on the debate about the Confederate flag that flies at a Civil War monument on the grounds of the S.C. Statehouse and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's boycott to force the removal of that flag.


http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/local/5188121.htm

AND

North meets South: Dean woos S.C. vote

SNIP:

COLUMBIA, S.C. — Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean spent Saturday trying to convince Southern voters that a little-known and not well-funded retired physician from a small Northern state should be the Democratic Party’s nominee for president

SNIP:

“When we come to the South, Democrats have got to start talking about race because the Republicans always talk about race,” he said to the South Carolina Democratic Convention. “They talk about it to try to keep people from voting, they talk about it by using divisive words like quotas, which are race-based words. In the South, we have discovered that when white voters and black voters vote together, we all make progress.”

Dean promised Democrats that he would work to ensure the African American base of the Democratic Party was not ignored. And in this state, which moved up its presidential primary date to Feb. 3, 2004 — making it the first primary in the South — he made an appeal to white voters who have long supported Republicans.

“There are 103,000 kids with no health insurance in this state and most of them are white,”he said. “What I want to say to white voters is, ‘Let’s put aside those divisive issues the Republicans always bring up and lets vote together for a better future for our children’.”

Dean said Saturday that he opposed displaying the Confederate flag at the capitol. But he said he was not honoring the NAACP’s boycott of the state after discussing the matter with African American leaders in South Carolina.

“I think it should come down,” he said.

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/64897
-------

His words went over well in South Carolina's black population. So why is a WHITE, NEW ENGLANDER having a problem with 'em?

[Padraig18]

1. White *DU-ers* aren't having a problem with them--- Kerry's people are.

:eyes:

[Sean Reynolds]

3. There are a few......

[Sean Reynolds]

10. I fixed it to target only Kerry.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[dajabr]

2. Here's the mirror you desperate hipocratres!

Take a long, hard, look...

[Cha]

4. I think you know "why", Sean.

Because Dean is leading and they are nipping and scratching, and grasping.

[Kolesar]

5. Sarcasm?

"His words went over well in South Carolina's black population. So why are WHITE DUers having an issue with 'em?"

Tell me.

[Sean Reynolds]

6. What?

That some DUers here (I think it's safe to say most are white) have a problem with his remarks. YET the black population of South Carolina cheered what he said?

You tell me.

[mbali]

19. The entire

black population of South Carolina was at Dean's speech and cheered what he said?

Wow! That must have been a huge room!

[Sean Reynolds]

26. Did I say that?

Wow, you're just as good as Kerry and Edwards at twisting words!

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrFunkenstein]

32. Zoinks! He Got You, Scoob!

It was a pretty ignorant thing to say. I'm sure you meant well, though. Just like Dean. I don't think he's a racist. I just don't think he really has a grasp on alot of things he's saying.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. Imagine foot-in-mouth Dean negotiating with the Chinese and N. Koreans

This is NOT the person we want speaking for America.

[DrFunkenstein]

35. Or The Mideast

Oh, that's right. He would have Clinton do that for him. I'm not sure how that affects the increase in military aid from $1 billion to $4 billion that Dean personally promised Sharon (without conditions).

[Kolesar]

38. then you were not being sarcastic (oops)

I get so used to the dry, twisted and unclear messages in the politics forum that I have come to expect sarcasm. Terribly sorry!

[Rose Siding]

7. Why? Ideological bigotry?

:shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. We'll find out on February 3

how South Carolina's black population feels about this.

[Sean Reynolds]

9. We've already found out.

It seems the only person that has an issue with Dean's words is Mr. Kerry, who is neither southern, nor black.

[LuminousX]

11. Kerry is an opportunist

And he is hoping this is his opportunity to regain his lost prominence.

[Cha]

12. Since it's based on inaccuracy I hope

he goes down flailing.

[Rose Siding]

13. Well...

We have Edwards, too, who seems to think that, somehow, inexplicably, a symbol was embraced. Hilariously, he also sort of goes somewhere else with the truck thing that had nothing to do with the remark. I'm thinking "opportunistic mischaracterization"?

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/page.asp?id=323

RALEIGH, NC - Senator John Edwards (NC) released the following statement today in response to Governor Dean's statement about the Confederate flag:
"What Howard Dean said today was nothing short of offensive. Democrats from every wing of the party understand what that flag symbolizes. And when a politician embraces one of the most divisive symbols in America, it is offensive to every American. Some of the greatest Civil Rights leaders, white and black, have come from the South. To assume that southerners who drive trucks would embrace this symbol is offensive.”

[tsipple]

15. Hey, John Edwards...

...Roll down your limo's window and take a freakin' look!

[DemDogs]

39. This is a joke, right?

Edwards grew up here. He knows the oppression that African-Americans feel in the South. Go ahead, put 'em side by side in front of an African-American audience and I am pretty sure Edwards will take his chances. Will Dean?

By the way, African-American audiences don't like to only see the husband. They want to see the wife, too.

[Egnever]

48. A jab perhaps but close to the truth

which one would you call the limo?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. There's no question it reinforces the stereotype

Edwards is quite right to call Dean out on this. It's simply indefensible thinking.
And I'll trust the word of the son of a mill worker from NC any day over Mr. pretend populist Dean.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemDogs]

43. I want to be the candidate of voters with . . .

the confederate flags on the trucks is not exactly distancing yourself from that symbol of racism. I'd say it comes pretty close to embracing it.

[Hawkeye-X]

36. Sorry, I'll take people-powered Dean

than limo-riding richboy Edwards or Kerry.

Both are sorely OUT OF TOUCH.

Hawkeye-X

[DemDogs]

44. Limo-riding Edwards? What a joke!

Edwards - son of millworker, no country club, home in Robbins,NC, public high school and college, vacation at grandparents mill house in SC

Dean - grew up on Park Avenue and the Hamptons, home on Hook Pond, son of Wall Street, Maidstone Country Club, St George's School, Yale, vacationed for a year skiing in Aspen.

[Egnever]

49. compare and contrast. Id call it limo riding Edwards

We report you decide

[tsipple]

17. Oh, For God's Sake!

Here's the snippet of the Dean quote (which should be read in context, by the way): "...White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back..."

He said white folks in the south who drive pickups. Assume "that southerners who drive trucks would embrace this symbol"? :wtf:

You know, this is why the Democratic Party is so utterly devoid of any reason for existence right now. What kind of opposition party, much less a major party, would go on about such nonsense when there are people dying every day in Iraq (to pick one important issue)? (Oh, maybe that's because John Edwards voted for the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq and helped co-author the Patriot Act. I guess with that recent string of votes you'll do anything to change the subject.) No wonder the Green Party and the GOP are laughing at Democrats.

[dsc]

21. It assumes no such thing

It doesn't assume that most pick up trucks have these stickers but that most of the vehicles with those stickers are pick up trucks. That is a huge difference. The first reading, yours, is like saying that most blacks play in the NBA. The second, mine, is like saying most NBA players are black. The first statement is preposterous the second undeniably true.

[mbali]

22. Was it "opportunistic mischaracterization"

when Howard Dean claimed, repeatedly, that he is the only white politician talking about race to white audiences?

[Sean Reynolds]

23. He was wrong in saying that.

I do not deny that fact.

But this goes beyond anything I've seen before.

[tsipple]

24. Looks Like Dean Was Right

Same quotes in speeches given to predominantly black audiences in South Carolina and a predominantly white audience in Sacramento.

Yeah, I think Dean nailed it, and we're just getting more evidence of that today. Kerry and Gephardt think it's perfectly fine to use race as a wedge issue when it benefits them, and I think that's disgusting and desperate.

[mbali]

25. No he wasn't

Speaking about race to white audiences is not the same as being the ONLY candidate to speak about race to white audiences.

If Dean wants people to know that he is doing this, he should talk about it to his heart's content. The problem is that he continues to characterize himself as the ONLY one doing it, and, by implication, mischaracterizing the actions of the other candidates.

He should just talk about what he's doing and leave it to the voters to determine who he measures up against the other candidates. His continual attempts to denigrate his opponents as not as worthy as he is only leaves him open to criticism when he makes stupid comments like the confederate flag remark.

[tsipple]

27. No, He Doesn't "Continue To"

Although I'm beginning to wonder, given the recent behavior of Kerry and Gephardt in particularly.

By the way, did Jesse Jackson, Jr. just make a "stupid comment" about the confederate flag?

[DrFunkenstein]

33. No He Spoke Eloquently

Pointing out how poorly Dean spoke about the same issue.

[w4rma]

37. Jesse Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., March on Washington, August 28, 1963

"White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."-- Dr. Howard Dean, DNC Winter meeting, February 21, 2003

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., today said, "This year we celebrated the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's famous speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963. Forty years later, Dr. Howard Dean is reminding us that the great task of uniting the northern black and white urban poor and working class, with the southern black and white rural poor and working class around common economic issues good health care, high quality schools, and affordable housing is the key to wrestling our democracy away from the race-oriented Republican right-wing.

"Democrats were not competitive in the South in 2000, and we have struggled to thrive, and in some instances survive, since Richard Nixon and the Republican Party began using their race-based 'southern strategy' in 1968. The use of race, cultural and social issues have served to distract voters by keeping the focus off of economic issues has been the basic strategy of Bush and the Republicans in the South. That's why they make wedge issues out of prayer in school, the Ten Commandments on public buildings, civil unions, the false allegation that Democrats will take away hunters' gun rights, choice for women, the controversy of having the words 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the Confederate Flag. Lest we forget, the Confederate Flag is the Democratic Party's historic contribution to the South, and current Democratic candidates have not been able to figure out how to come to grips with their own historic symbol.

"Normally, rather than directly confronting poor and working class white southerners with a strong economic agenda, Democrats have tried to imitate Republicans on many of these social issues. It is good that we have a candidate offering hope to the South with an economic agenda. It is Dr. Dean who is reminding us that the combination of poor and working class blacks and whites, north and south, united in coalition around a common economic agenda of jobs, health care, education and housing will constitute a winning strategy in 2004," concluded Cong. Jackson.

Posted by Mathew Gross at 07:12 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002084.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=631124

[Nazgul35]

45. Actually looks like he was right...

now doesn't it....it seems that Dems only seem interested in continuing to use the age old tactics of exclusion and race-baiting to ensure the "black folks" vote for us....

It appears that Dean is attempting to address the underlying causes on which racisim draws its power....poverty and under-education....by going directly to those individuals who are abused by the repugs time and time again by the very tactics he mentions...

So let's support the 'ol status quo....let's pretend the problem doesn't exist....lets continue to treat the symptoms and not the causes.....that'll get us right quick to the dream of MLK...cause it's worked soooooo well over the last 40 years......

[mzmolly]

42. What a dope!

I thought he had some brains till now. LOL

[killbotfactory]

30. Obviously, they are racists

n/t

[poskonig]

31. Dean's comments look reasonable in context.

I wish the other candidates would focus on more substantive things. Whether one supports the Confederate Flag or not is unimportant. I'm personally uncomfortable with it, while others aren't.

Meanwhile, Iraq is a mess, Bush is shifting the tax cut burden from wealth to labor while bankrupting the government programs, rolling back environmental safeguards for polluters, etc., and as a voter, I care more about these types of things.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

40. Am I the only one

to whom this whole thread seems racist in tone?

" So why is a WHITE, NEW ENGLANDER having a problem with 'em?"

Isn't that attacking Kerry because he's white?


(ps, I did alert this yesterday)

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

51. So is it racist to attack Kerry because he's white, or not?

[mzmolly]

41. "Dean says confederate flag should come down."

And he did so back in May...

Thanks for the great work Sean!

:yourock:

[mmonk]

52. that's admirable

which one begs to wonder why bring it up in a different context in an appeal for votes.

[mmonk]

46. There's more to the south than rebel flags and race.

No one would argue race relations have a tough history here. Its just alot of people will view the rebel flags and pickup comments as a putdown of people from the south. African Americans will want clarifications of his remarks here also. People may be wonder if he is wedging people or not. Sorry, that's how I see it from my vantage point.

[Maddy McCall]

47. and I, too.

And have seen other southerners say the same thing here on du.