Governor Dean responds to flag controversy

[Padraig18]

Dean questioned about flag comment
By JONATHAN ROOS
Register Staff Writer
11/04/2003

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, campaigning in the Des Moines area Monday, addressed lingering questions about his references to the Confederate flag.

During a mid-day meeting with Johnston High School students, the Democratic presidential candidate was asked about a recent comment that he wants to be the candidate "for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

Dean said he has used the description to refer to working class, white Southerners who vote Republican when it's not in their interest to do so because of GOP policies such as tax cuts benefiting wealthy Americans.

"What Franklin Roosevelt did was to get the Southern white working class to vote with the Southern African-American working class," said Dean, about the former Democratic president.

"The only time we're ever going to make progress in this country is when black people and white people and brown people work together and put race aside."

Entire article: http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/22668055.html

[onebigbadwulf]

1. Amen

and a happy new year

[mandyky]

2. Dean also clued youngsters in on the reality of politics

being a lot about people saying stuff about one that is not true...

[Hawkeye-X]

3. This comment that Dean just made

just laid to rest about Dean and Confederate Flags, buried it permanently. Rove can't use it now.

Hawkeye-X

[helleborient]

4. Political savvy at its best!

Not backing down, explaining yourself and teaching people about politics all at the same time!

Thank you, Dr. Dean!

[mmonk]

9. Don't think so

working class southern whites aren't homogenic. Goes back to assumptions about southern men and why they have lately gone to the republicans with a sort of in the background assumption that it could be related to race (how some will read it). It will go away, just not permanently for some in their minds.

[Padraig18]

5. In the rest of the article...

... there is reaction from Iowa voters, who accept Gov. Dean's explanation.

Message to the 'outraged' crowd: get over it, because the voters already have.

[Rowdyboy]

6. Incredible....

That so many people got so upset over this. Its an analogy for God's sake. People waste so much time and energy over symbols like the confederate flag when there are so many serious issues being neglected. Poverty, unemployment, hunger, child neglect, skyrocketing deficits and people choose to get riled up over a stupid symbol.

[Padraig18]

7. Ain't it the truth?

It said far more about the desperation of the other candidates than it did about Gov. Dean; I think that's why Gen. Clark's response was reasonable, rather than hystrionic.

[Nazgul35]

8. ahmen Rowdyboy....

hopefully one of our guys'll get the nod (Clarke Dean Kucinich) and then we can leave this nonsense behind....

Although it is showing those who were concerned that Dean wouldn't be able to weather the attacks that they were wrong....ooooppppppsss!!!!

:evilgrin:

[lastliberalintexas]

10. Thank you Rowdyboy

And btw, Clark has gained some ground by, for the most part, staying out of this. That showed a lot of class on his part.

I haven't been a fan of his in the past, so it has definitely helped him in my eyes. And not because this was directed at Dean, but because this targeted attack was directed at a Dem.

[Padraig18]

11. Clark's response...

... moved him straight into the #2 position, in terms of my candidate preference. Kerry, Gephart and Edwards moved into 7th, 8th and 9th, respectively, due to their responses.

[mmonk]

13. Good

Dean's my second. Haven't determined the order of the remaining except Lieberman in the rear.

[billbuckhead]

12. "USED the description to refer to working class white southerners"

Emphasis on the word "used", because that is what he did with this hated symbol."He owes the millions of working class white southerners an apology for saying they have Confederate flags on their trucks as well as to minorities for "using" the flag for his own political benefit.

[Padraig18]

16. Keep on harping, bill,...

... but the voters have already moved on. But if it makes you feel better, by all means... :shrug:

[Upfront]

68. Nice Try

but bull S. as usual. You must try harder your losing more every time you speak.

[Cha]

84. Dean has brought the subject out into the open and

only ones with axes to grind do not its benefits, IMFO.

[Padraig18]

102. Horseshit!

LOL! Who died, and appointed you as Miss Manners?

[redqueen]

107. What the hell has it got to do with manners?!

He used a DIVISIVE symbol, get it?

Whatever you think about the lack of outrage or the timing of it... that's all BESIDE the point.

He used a DIVISIVE symbol, when he DIDN'T HAVE TO!

Is that getting any clearer?

How many times has this been pointed out on this forum?!

I guess it doesn't matter, because it was Deeeean who said it, and his stuff don't stink.

Sickening. Truly sickening.

[Padraig18]

110. It really doesn't matter.

He said what he said, and any reasonable person knows what he meant. this whole 'get your panties in a wad' reaction is sheer hystrionics. :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

14. Symbols Are Not Stupid.

In some ways, they are more real and more powerful than the tangibles for which they stand.

And this is not to mention symbols which represent intangibles.

And my comments about Dean and his Confed Flag statement were concerned with his inability to speak without turning people off by being patronizing.

Dean has NOT reached out specifically to Southern Rebels in his campaign- so why is he talking about them to his rank and file? Apparently he has no clue on how to appeal to them.

Dean does a wretched job of choosing his words and if he gets nominated this might lose the general election.

Frankly, if he gets the nomination I think his entire Presidential Campaign would end up being damage control.

[LuminousX]

15. his inability to speak without turning people off

Then you don't have to worry about him winning the primaries.

[Padraig18]

17. He looks viable as hell, objectively-speaking.

It's about voter support, organiztion and money, all 3 of which he has in abundance. :hi:

[KittyWampus]

24. Sad How Dean Supporters Just Tune Reality Out

Again, why is Dean talking about Southern Rebels to his rank and file?

If Dean really wanted their support and to reach out to them... he would talk to them directly.

This is the REALITY.

Tell me, when is Dean going to start directly reaching out to the Southern Rebels?

He will talk at colleges, black churches and Union rallies.... if he REALLY wants those votes when is he going to address that particular group of voters.

[Padraig18]

29. What's Sad is ...

... Democrats adopting the same techniques they allegedly deplored Ken Starr for using against Bill Clinton: parse every word, take statements out of context, annoy, harrass, browbeat into submission, etc. . guess what? It won't work, so cry yourself to sleep as you watch your candidate's campaign implode.

I can understand why you'd be bitter about that, though...

[KittyWampus]

31. You Still Haven't Addressed The Point

That Dean was talking about the Southern Rebels to his rank and file when he apparently has NO REAL INTENTION of truly reaching out to them.

This isn't parsing anything!

I made a rather OBJECTIVE OBSERVATION.

If you read what I wrote, there is NO ATTEMPT TO CHARACTERIZE WHAT DEAN SAID....

Although there is my personal opinon on what the results of Dean's rhetoric would reap in a General Election.

[Padraig18]

32. "Southern rebels"?

That's objective? *hands you a dictionary*

[KittyWampus]

34. Yes, Confederate Flag Decal Using

Truck driving Southern Rebels.

And again, you totally ignore the objective observation that Dean has NOT actually reached out to these people.

All he's done is talk ABOUT them... to his rank and file.

Whywould I need a dictionary? I've know some of these types and listened to their music when I was younger.

[Padraig18]

35. "Souther rebels" is...

... hardly an objective term. It is, if anything, a slur.

[redqueen]

38. Are you serious?

That's what the flag is ... the 'rebel' flag ... and it's Southern by definition ... so ... :shrug:

[Padraig18]

40. Are YOU serious?

That leap of logic spans a century-and-a-half. Do you assume that what the CF represents to you is what it neccessarily represents to *them*? :eyes:

[redqueen]

49. Damn straight I'm serious.

I live in Texas. I know these people. THEY call it the 'rebel flag', not the CF, and they're very proud to be Southern Rebels.

Jeez... I almost can't believe anyone would think otherwise. Guess I got that assumption corrected!

[Upfront]

72. How Many

will be voting for Dennis? lol

[redqueen]

97. Boy, there's one thing you can count on Deanbots for...

meaningless, nasty one-liners.

Bet they're proud of it, too... go figure.

:eyes:

[LuminousX]

98. Deanbots? Shall we start using the term Kooky-Kucis?

[redqueen]

100. Why the hell not?

Half of you call us 'loonies' or whatnot on a regular basis!

I'm really BEYOND tired of this...

[KittyWampus]

61. Yet Again You Completely Ignore My Point

And I'm not the one who brought up Confed Flag waving Southern Rebels- DEAN DID.

And the Confederate Flag is CALLED THE SOUTHERN REBEL FLAG and the guys who fly it tied to their antennas call themselves REBELS... so if its a slur then they are denigrating themselves.

Jeez.

See for yourself at www.rebelstuff.com where they have "Everything Confederate from home fashions to t-shirts"

[Padraig18]

64. When you have a 'point', I'll address it. n/t

[polpilot]

93. I'd suggest a better source for your information concerning the flag of

the Confederate States of America and the origination and use of this flag. wwwrebelstuff.com would be a site that I haven't or won't be visiting for education or entertainment and certainly not for knowledge of this flag.

Dean '04...The Rebel With A Cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[redqueen]

99. Do you not realize that this is where ...

the people with the bumperstickers GET THEM?!

[Padraig18]

103. Umm...

... you can buy them at virtually any convenience store, gas station, etc., in America, too. :eyes:

[redqueen]

105. No s**t? Really?!

DUH!

Okay let me spell it out for you: it's that TYPE of site or PLACE where people buy crap like that.

You sure as hell don't find them at Whole Foods, bookstores or the local convenience store.

Pathetic.

[Padraig18]

108. You *do* find them at the local convenience store.

I saw them today at 'Huck's' and 'Casey's' both--- $1.89, plus tax.

[helleborient]

37. Why do you say he has no intention to reach out to them?

He said they need healthcare and education as well...that was reaching out, wasn't it?

I'm confused...don't you think he will campaign in the South Carolina primary?

I can't really imagine Kerry, Gephardt or Edwards campaigning in South Carolina with banning the Confederate flag as a primary theme. If they don't, I assume they will be attempting to reach out to those voters as well.

[KittyWampus]

52. He Made A Comment Drawing Attention To ONE SPECIFIC GROUP

And he made this comment about this one group to his rank and file.

He was NOT TALKING TO THAT SPECIFIC group... he was talking about them.

And talking about someone is not the same as TALKING TO THEM.

In fact, his statements come across as patronizing.

If he truly wants to reach out to Confed Flag buffs let him speak at an NRA rally or NASCAR rally.

Kerry and the rest didn't talk about banning the flag... who mentioned banningn the flag?

And the other Democrats didn't step in a rhetorical pile DEAN DID!

[Padraig18]

54. Odd how you all just *discovered* the remarks...

... even though all of the other candidates heard them, except sen. kerry, who was recuperating from his surgery--- and you can be damned sure he heard them, too. Your 'outrage' doesn't pass the smell test.

[KittyWampus]

69. Plenty Of People Called Dean Out WHEN HE MADE THE REMARKs

Here on DU. I remember quite well.

And my point is not about OUTRAGE as you yet AGAIN miss my point.

This is about Dean's being a liability in the General Election. The man doesn't choose his words well.

[Padraig18]

71. Read post #50. n/t

[LuminousX]

59. Or how about speaking to a crowd in South Carolina?

South Carolinians have voted Republican for 30 years," said Dean, who appeared on stage with no jacket and blue short-sleeve shirt. "Tell me what you have to show for it?"

"Nothing! Nothing!" several in the crowd shouted back.

"The Legislature cut $73 million out of the public school system. Jobs gone to other countries especially in textiles. People haven't had raises in five years because their health insurance premiums took their raise in pay," Dean said.

"If you're satisfied with that, you ought to vote for George Bush," he said. "But maybe you ought to vote Democratic again. Because when white people and black people and brown people vote together in this country, that's when we make social progress."

Dean talking to Southerners

[KittyWampus]

74. He Was Talking To Southeners NOT Southern Rebels

When Dean said "Confed flag decal truck drivers" he wasn't generically referring to "Southereners".

The group of white southern men who drive pick ups with Rebel Flags on them are SOUTHERN REBELS.

If he MEANT Southerners as a generic term then he's more STUPID than he is ill-spoken.

[Padraig18]

"The group ...are SOUTHERN REBELS."

No, that is YOUR projection, not their self-identification, I think.

Did they take a vote? Was the vote unanimous? Where are the results posted?

I'm dying to know... :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

80. Visit The Link I Gave You

www.rebelstuff.com

Just as some people identify themselves as skinheads, punks, union members whatever...

There are guys who consider themselves SOUTHERN REBELS

You can't hear what I'm saying... this is pointless.

[Padraig18]

83. Oh, I hear what you're saying.

What your saying is nonsense.

[redqueen]

101. I was wondering ...

when you'd get tired of banging your head into that wall.

[LuminousX]

77. This is a speech to a group

which may or may not contain some Southern rebels, but it, like all speeches, are meant to give an indication of how the campaign is going to be handled. Which means, he is telling this group of aforementioned South Carolinians that his campaign is going to reach out to this group and he thinks it is a good think because one less vote for Bush is a good thing and in the process, getting them to realize their plight is caused by Republicans who use race issues to keep them voting for the Republicans.

Whew... anyone say 'run on sentence'? I knew you could.

[LuminousX]

78. BTW, do 'SOUTHERN REBELS' hang out someplace in particular?

[LuminousX]

53. Oh? Then what is this about?

Dean talking to Southerners

South Carolinians have voted Republican for 30 years," said Dean, who appeared on stage with no jacket and blue short-sleeve shirt. "Tell me what you have to show for it?"

"Nothing! Nothing!" several in the crowd shouted back.

"The Legislature cut $73 million out of the public school system. Jobs gone to other countries especially in textiles. People haven't had raises in five years because their health insurance premiums took their raise in pay," Dean said.

"If you're satisfied with that, you ought to vote for George Bush," he said. "But maybe you ought to vote Democratic again. Because when white people and black people and brown people vote together in this country, that's when we make social progress."

[KittyWampus]

66. Where's The Mention of The Confederate Flag?

Seems he uses the term when he's talking with one group and not with another.

But that's probably becasue the term he used with his rank and file was CRASS and he didn't WANT to use it woith actual southerners.

[LuminousX]

76. In nearly every stump speech he's made

Dean in South Carolina again
When we come to the South, Democrats have got to start talking about race because the Republicans always talk about race,” he said to the South Carolina Democratic Convention. “They talk about it to try to keep people from voting, they talk about it by using divisive words like quotas, which are race-based words. In the South, we have discovered that when white voters and black voters vote together, we all make progress.”

Dean promised Democrats that he would work to ensure the African American base of the Democratic Party was not ignored. And in this state, which moved up its presidential primary date to Feb. 3, 2004 — making it the first primary in the South — he made an appeal to white voters who have long supported Republicans.

“There are 103,000 kids with no health insurance in this state and most of them are white,” he said. “What I want to say to white voters is, ‘Let’s put aside those divisive issues the Republicans always bring up and lets vote together for a better future for our children’.”

Dean said Saturday that he opposed displaying the Confederate flag at the capitol. But he said he was not honoring the NAACP’s boycott of the state after discussing the matter with African American leaders in South Carolina.

“I think it should come down,” he said.

[Cha]

85. You say it's "sad how Dean supporters tune out reality"....

I say it's pathetic how much you need a good dose of Reality!

[w4rma]

113. Dean Won't Stop Talking About Race with Southerners

Howard Dean campaigns in Tallahassee

Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean told a Tallahassee audience today that southerners have to quit basing their votes on "race, guns, God and gays."

Dean, making his first campaign foray into North Florida, spoke at a rally in Jacksonville then addressed more than 500 people at a luncheon of the Capital Tiger Bay Club.
…
Dean said he hopes to reassemble a coalition of conservative southern voters like President Franklin Roosevelt had in the "solid South" 70 years ago. Although his opposition to the war in Iraq and his criticism of the Bush tax cuts do not score well in polls in the South, Dean said he hopes working families will support his call for improving education and health care.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/7181952.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=76824

Did these SOUTHERN, BLACK, Baptists have a problem with Dean's remarks?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=73335

[billbuckhead]

18. The people who have died over these symbols must be stupid

The soldiers of the civil war who died fighting this symbol of racism and oppression must have been stupid. The soldiers raising the American flag at Iwo Jima must have stupid as well.

[Padraig18]

19. No one said they were stupid.

Oh, wait-- you just did. :hi:

[JohnKleeb]

22. I had a relative on the fields of Virginia in the 1860's and one

on the sands of Iwo Jima. One lived, he was in the Army of the Potomac during its toughest days though, and the other one Sgt. Strank who yes was one of the flag raisers died, sigh, I wonder what we would have done in life really. I read the book Flags of Our Fathers by James Bradley very personally, so I think about Sgt Strank and his brave sacriface, its a shame he never came home. I dont think though all who raise the flag are in fact racist nor do I think Dean is one but the confederate flag offends me simply put, and thats all I have to say about that. It offends me, it represents a tragic period in our history. No I dont find Dean a racist for saying what he said not at all but I dont feel right about that flag.
Thanks for bringing up Iwo Jima though, I think of my relative, being that I am staring at that book now, and it really has been an interseting journey for me. I shall go to Arlington cemetery sometime soon.

[helleborient]

41. Ummm...let's straighten out a little history

Most people who see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism do so because of its use as a symbol to threaten people with after the Civil War.

The Civil War was not fought to end racism and oppression...it was fought to preserve the Union, keep it from splitting into two countries.

Slavery was not a major issue in the war, as in, the soldiers are fighting to end slavery, until President Lincoln freed slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation in 1864. The war had been going on for 4 years at that point. One of the primary reasons Lincoln freed the slaves at that point was so that slaves would help by taking up arms against the South.

I had a great great grandfather who lost an arm fighting for the union in the Civil War.

Any comments Dean has made about the Confederate flag mean nothing about that.

The way the flag was used at times to threaten and oppress people post-Reconstruction is shameful.

Just please get your history straight...soldiers in the Civil War as a whole were not engaged in the war to fight racism.

[JohnKleeb]

To some though it was to end slavery hell though

I am not sure what my ancestor thought. Actually Lincoln gave the Emancipation in 1862 for some it was to end slavery though, the famous Colonel Chamberlain on Little Round Top I thik thats one of the reasons why, the emancipation was signed after the battle of Antineam I think. It was about preserving the union intially yes you are ever the right but as the war drew on and especially with the black recruits for the union it became a war to end slavery. Again I wasnt offended by what Dean said really that much what I was, is by the Confederate flag defending I saw afterwards amd yes Hell I know you didnt take part in that, kudos.

[helleborient]

48. No, I wasn't disagreeing with you John...

I just thought that post about all the soldiers fighting to end racism and oppression was a bit off mark. After the Civil War there was still plenty of racism and segregation in the north as well.

I think you would have found yourself a lonely voice if you had told northerners the war was about racism. Anti-slavery, possibly yes for a number of them, but anti-racism, no.

And I'm sorry for the mess-up with dates. The final part of the proclamation was actually issued and took effect on January 1, 1863.

Lincoln also faced strong opposition from northern Democrats who wanted to end the war in his race for re-election in 1864.

[JohnKleeb]

60. I am history wiz dude

Oh on the north I know, did ya see Glory? yep, youre right about racism though. There were a handfull that were for full equality.

[polpilot]

94. I was preparing a similar post but you beat me to it. That's what so

good about this board. It's a LEARNING experience for many. Too many.

Dean '04...Rebel with a Cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[polpilot]

91. His brilliant campaign this year appears quite talented and successful!!

Successful...talented...winning...I believe that's the game we're playing this year and I believe Mr. Howard is the winner.

Dean '04...

[Padraig18]

92. And 99% of the 'outrage' we're hearing...

... is the venting of frustration over supporting candidates whose campaigns are imploding.

[Upfront]

65. Your Right

most don, have the guts or the brains to face the truth. Dean is right again.

[sandnsea]

20. Put race aside?!?

The more I think about that comment, the angrier I get. Put race aside!!!

We're screaming about racial profiling of Arab-Americans. We're screaming about driving while black. We're screaming about racism against illegal immigrants, particularly in California and the southwest. We're screaming about the death penalty, incarceration rates, and drug sentences that are slanted against blacks. We're screaming about black unemployment rates being twice that of whites. So many racial issues out there that DUers are outraged about, and Howard Dean says PUT RACE ASIDE!!!

Fuck that. This guy clearly doesn't get it at all.

[Padraig18]

21. Yet another example of...

... screaming "Tree! Tree!" while standing in a forest. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

23. No,

It's screaming tree, tree, while the forest is burning down.

[Padraig18]

26. No

It's yet another example of parsing a PART of a sentence, and taking it out of context.

[sandnsea]

30. Take the whole sentence

I don't care. It makes no sense. He's saying all people should vote together for health care and education and put race aside. Forget about race. What does that mean? Is Dean saying to stop being racist and then thinks people just will? Is Dean saying to stop talking about race and it'll go away? What is he saying?

[Padraig18]

33. It makes perfcet sense!

"The only time we're ever going to make progress in this country is when black people and white people and brown people work together and put race aside."

What, pray tell, is hard to understand about that sentence?

[sandnsea]

43. Put race aside

Dean said it's not an issue anymore, so it's not. Hooray for Dean! He's solved one of the oldest problems of mankind! Wohoo! Yehaa! Where's the celebration? When will people of color be pouring into the streets, hand in hand, arm in arm? Put race aside! Put race aside! Too bad Martin Luther King didn't say this 40 years ago. Think of the progress we could have made!

[Padraig18]

45. Appeal to ridicule.

And not even what he said. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

51. Then what did he say?

I'm trying to get where he has made any statement about racism. I'm trying to figure where that statement to 'put race aside' addresses racism. I don't see it.

[Padraig18]

56. Read the bloody sentence!

Did anyone say it was a bloody address about racism? The sentence says what it says, ffs! :wtf:

[Padraig18]

57. Dupe

.

[Upfront]

75. Dean Is Saying

We have to start somewhere. Now is the time.

[LuminousX]

28. then you don't have to worry about him being nominated

[mmonk]

25. The best thing Dean can do about it

is to not overexplain it. It will make it worse. The best thing for the other candidates to do is to stop attacking him on it at some point as it might backfire. I'm a southerner and didn't like it. I don't like the explanation. But I don't think Dean is a racist. I'll get over it because I know alot of people around the country can only think in those terms when asked about the south. Nothing I can do about it. Time to move on I think.

[KittyWampus]

27. No, Dean Isn't A Racist

He just does a piss poor job of choosing his words and phrases.

Edit: and he has a couple of statements from his past that don't paint him in the most Affirmative light.

[boxster]

36. Dean should have just said this the first time:

working class, white Southerners who vote Republican when it's not in their interest to do so because of GOP policies such as tax cuts benefiting wealthy Americans.

The point could have easily been made without mentioning the flag, saving him some grief.

"What Franklin Roosevelt did was to get the Southern white working class to vote with the Southern African-American working class," said Dean, about the former Democratic president.

"The only time we're ever going to make progress in this country is when black people and white people and brown people work together and put race aside."

Again, point made - no flag reference. Just make the point - we want the Southern vote because we're the better party for the Southern working class. Then elaborate.

I think he could have easily made the point without the flag reference. When in doubt, avoid referencing a symbol that many people consider divisive!

[Padraig18]

39. I'm certain he won't do it again! LOL

But if I may ask, don't you find the timing of the 'outrage' odd, considering that it has been a line in his standard 'stump speech' for months, and in light of the new tri-partite alliance of Kerry/Gephart/Edwards?

Whenever * does something, we ALL look at it and talk about the timing, etc. . Why should we not try to be as objective now, when looking at this? :hi:

[boxster]

44. Yes, timing is certainly an issue, though it makes sense.

The closer we get to the nomination, the more stuff like this will garner attention.

Dean made it a little easier for his opponents to criticize it after this speech by his wording. It's all in interpretation - a loose interpretation of what he said could make it appear that he wanted to "represent" the CF voters and not just that he thought they should be voting Democratic anyway (for other reasons - healthcare, etc.)

The old saying is that there is no such thing as bad press. At the very least, he has certainly gotten attention for it. The way he deals with the aftermath is the key.

[helleborient]

42. My question I still have....

Why didn't everyone who is now screaming foul respond to Dean's statements when he made them the first time last February in the wake of the Trent Lott controversy?

Why did the DNC cheer his comments? All of the candidates were there except John Kerry who was ill at the time.

Cheering then and screaming "foul" now. I don't understand.

[Padraig18]

46. It's called 'crass, political opportunism'. n/t

[boxster]

47. I think a lot of it has to do with his choice of words.

In this speech, he said he wanted to "be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks." I'm not sure how he worded it at the DNC speech.

To some, that wording could be loosely interpreted to mean that he wanted to represent those voters and that he shared their views. He obviously meant that they should be voting Democratic anyway because of other issues, such as health care.

Honestly, though, his choice of words left interpretation to the listener. Had he said, "the guys with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks should be voting Democratic, because they need health care, too", I'm betting there wouldn't have been an uproar.

[Padraig18]

50. You're right.

And I've never taken the position that it was a brilliant piece of wordcraft; by the same token, the consistently negative interpretations only seem to be coming from those candidates and their supporters who are also contesting the nomination. As the voters in Iowa made plain, his explanation is accepted and they're prepared to move on.

I think the voters are wiser than we are, at times. :)

[boxster]

62. The effects of his statement would not be obvious, either way.

The voters in Iowa may accept his explanation, but most of them likely don't really understand the depth of the issue of the flag itself, so I wouldn't put too much stock in Iowa's reaction being indicative of the reaction in the South. Many people in the South likely won't accept his explanation, but they also won't demonstrate that anywhere but the voting booth.

The problem with an event such as this one is that it's nearly impossible to tell the net result - how many voters appreciate the fact he made note of them and brought up the issue (and explained the intent to their satisfaction) vs. how many voters were turned off by his reference to the flag, regardless of the context or the intent.

All we can do is speculate.

[Padraig18]

67. Yep.

And all the hammering, yammering and piling on isn't going to amount to a hill of beans, so the other campaigns would better spend their time, energy and resources on something else. They might also remember the old adage that 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones', and they ALL live in 'glass houses'.

[billbuckhead]

55. No,the problem is that he didn't care about black's feelings and stereo-

typed working class white pickup truck drivers as Confederate flag owners. I've lived in Georgia since 1981 and Dean's out of touch with reality.

[Padraig18]

58. Elected you their spokesperson, have they? n/t

[LuminousX]

63. Dean's out of touch, then he won't be elected, no worries.

[Upfront]

82. What

Is it reality that people have flags on their trucks? Do they vote republican? Is Dean trying to crack into that mind set? We should all bend over and stick our heads up our rectum and pretend this is not true. Do you want to beat Bush* or do you want to bring down Dean and his rabid supporters. If you want to beat Bush* then back your man and let the voters decide, and cut out all the attacks. They are as phoney as a two doller bill. You fool no one. Just so you know, I think the South is great and so are its people. If I had to fight a war they are the one's I want on my side. Southerners are tough, good people, Dean wants there vote, and is telling them that, they need to know. I go South every winter and am glad they let me.

[Cha]

87. Dean is so much in touch with Reality! Much more so

than you could Even know.

[LuminousX]

70. Here's One I Like

Dean at DNC Feb. 22 gets cheered for Confederate Flag remark
Enright noted that Dean had previously used the Confederate flag image in his campaign.

One instance came Feb. 22 at a meeting of the Democratic National Committee in Washington. Dean said the men with Confederate flag decals in their pickup trucks represented lucrative prospects for the party ``because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too.''

The party elite stood and cheered.

===
I guess their hearing wasn't so good. Or the party is filled with racists.

[Padraig18]

73. The irony is thick enough to slice...

... or maybe the hypocrisy and crass, political opportunism is. :P

[LuminousX]

79. I'll go with 'hypocrits'

mainly because it is a fun word to say.

[Padraig18]

81. LOL!

It also has that 'crack of the lash' quality to it! :P

[billbuckhead]

86. I'm so glad Vermonter Howard Dean has solved racism in America

by saying he wants the votes of those with Confederate flag bumperstickers on their pickup trucks. Why didn't Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Doug Wilder, etc think of that?

[Cha]

88. Because there is only one Dean..

All those other men made their contributions to our Country and Dean is making his!

[LuminousX]

96. Why did those at the DNC applaud Dean when he said that?

[DrFunkenstein]

89. Neo-Nazis Put Down Your Swastikas And Vote For Racial Unity

We need to reach out to the disaffected neo-nazis and militia men who really feel that neither Party is addressing their concerns.

<>

"We need health insurance, too."

[LuminousX]

95. Ever see "American History X"?

That is exactly what we have to do. You don't change people's attitudes by ignoring them.

[Frangible]

90. That should quell the overreaction

Jeeze people, Dean was just saying we have to set aside racial hatred and work together for a better America. That's 100% true, no matter who you vote for.

[redqueen]

104. Flag Schmag

Dean is too good at saying stupid things or saying smart things in a stupid way and then having to go back and tidy up after himself.

If he gets the nod, Rove will be happy as a pig in slop. Hope to see you guys around here if / when that day arrives. Hooting out your ***** likke a bunch of half drunk frat boys just like you are now.


What disgusts me is the smirky, insulting, condecending tone of a WHOLE HELL OF A LOT of his supporter's comments on this site.

Hope you're all REALLY FREAKIN PROUD. :mad:

[Padraig18]

106. He'll have a ball with DK, too.

And our responses are about as civil as the questions/statements that provoke them. :grr: back at ya.

[redqueen]

109. Yeah? Does this sound familiar?

"Do you sell tickets to that fantasy world you live in?"

About half a level up from 'nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah"

Yeah, right... quite a civil group.

[Padraig18]

111. You forgot...

... 'Drink the kool-Aid'. Just thought I'd mention that one, simply because it's about the most vile one uttered here yet.

[LuminousX]

112. Out of curiosity

Anyone been to Sturgis when all the bikers congregate there? How many 'Southern Rebels' show up?