Dean 'flim-flam' on guns, Kerry says

[Feanorcurufinwe]

In his sharpest criticism of his chief rival to date, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry said yesterday that former Vermont governor Howard Dean has waffled on the issue of gun control.

The senator said Dean is mounting his presidential campaign on a platform that supports gun control. But during Dean's gubernatorial races, he opposed an assault weapons ban and courted support from the National Rifle Association, Kerry said.

"By falling in line with the most extreme elements of the National Rifle Association, Howard Dean didn't offer straight talk, he offered a pander to one of the most powerful interest groups in America," Kerry said during a morning press conference in Concord.

During his 1992 race for governor, Dean opposed a ban on assault weapons, a waiting period for all firearms sales and a requirement that firearm owners register their guns, according to a questionnaire he submitted to the National Rifle Association. Now, as a candidate for the Democratic Party nomination, Dean is saying he supports the assault weapons ban and the Brady Bill, which required background checks for gun purchasers. Beyond those federal laws, however, Dean says that the states should be responsible for their gun control laws, leaving them to tailor any restrictions to their local needs.

<snip>

According to Andrew Arulanandam, director of public affairs for the NRA, Dean was endorsed by the group in three of his five gubernatorial elections: 1994, 1996 and 1998. In 1992 and 2000, Dean received a top shelf "A" rating from the NRA but was not endorsed.

Like Kerry, Arulanandam said Dean's support for the assault weapons ban isn't in sync with his stance as governor.

"Clearly it's inconsistent," Arulanandam said.

Kerry's attacks were spawned by Dean's recent remark about the Confederate flag, a comment the governor made in defending his position on guns. Dean said the Democratic Party needs to court Southerners with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. Earlier this week, Dean said he regretted the remark and apologized.
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state2003/kerry_on_crime_2003.shtml

[LuminousX]

1. flip-flop, flim-flam... Does this man speak english?

What happened to real words like inconsistent or fraudulent... oh, I know why, because they have actual definitions and legal ramifications and don't leave 'wiggle room.'

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LuminousX]

5. Thank you, I don't feel quite right until I've been insulted

Cheers. I still love you, despite your spite.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. There's a difference between

adding spite to the mix, and stirring it around.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. Your comment is stupid and off-topic

[jeter]

3. Is it me, or is Kerry really getting annoying

I am so close to not supporting that eastern elitist preppy, war voting jerk if he is nominated.

This is getting outrageous.

[polpilot]

10. Whining and groveling...Kerry is quite annoying. Misrepresenting Dean's

positions was the line he crossed. I believe the Kerry machine is rapidly approaching the word 'pathetic'.

We're wasting valuable energy that should be focused on the lying, warmongering, dangerous fool known as Chimpy.

Dean '04...

[Cha]

15. Way past "Pathetic"....zooming onward

to "Sorry Ass!"

[virtualobserver]

4. I don't blame Kerry for his constant mention of Howard.

He apparently joined Transcendental Meditation a few weeks ago, and they inadvertently gave him the word "DEAN" as his mantra.

[jody]

6. As governor, Dean took an oath to support Vermont's constitution

which says:
QUOTE


Article 1. {All persons born free; their natural rights; slavery prohibited}

That all persons are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent, and unalienable rights, amongst which are the enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety; therefore no person born in this country, or brought from over sea, ought to be holden by law, to serve any person as a servant, slave or apprentice, after arriving to the age of twenty-one years, unless bound by the person's own consent, after arriving to such age, or bound by law for the payment of debts, damages, fines, costs, or the like.

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Article 16. {Right to bear arms; standing armies; military power subordinate to civil}

That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State--and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.
UNQUOTE {emphasis added}

I don't see how Dean's position on RKBA as governor was inconsistent with his responsibility as governor.

[Rose Siding]

18. When he was Gov, he served Vermonters

As pres and pres candidate, his constituency is different. His views reflect the difference.

Kerry's just having Fun With Words. He's on the "Fl"'s now.

On a raido program, according to today's NYT, the host had to ask him to stop talking about Dean and say some things about himself.

[dfong63]

28. that's rich

On a raido program, according to today's NYT, the host had to ask him to stop talking about Dean and say some things about himself.

good one!!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. Apparently the only thing the NRA and Kerry agree on

is that Howard Dean is untrustworthy on the gun issue.

According to Andrew Arulanandam, director of public affairs for the NRA, Dean was endorsed by the group in three of his five gubernatorial elections: 1994, 1996 and 1998. In 1992 and 2000, Dean received a top shelf "A" rating from the NRA but was not endorsed.
Like Kerry, Arulanandam said Dean's support for the assault weapons ban isn't in sync with his stance as governor.

"Clearly it's inconsistent," Arulanandam said.
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state2003/kerry_on_crime_2003.shtml


2002 Based on lifetime voting records on gun issues and the results of a questionnaire sent to all Congressional candidates in 2002, the National Rifle Association assigned Senator Kerry a grade of F (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F).
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103#Gun+Issues

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. So you agree that Dean has flip-flopped on this?

[Cha]

16. I "agree" kerry is a Flimflammer Extraordinare..

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Dean was against the AWB, now he's for it. Isn't that flip-flopping?

[MercutioATC]

23. Again, he WAS the Gov. of Vermont. He's now RUNNING for Prez.

In the first case, his sole responsibility was to the people of Vermont. In the second, his responsibility will be to all Americans. There is a rather large difference.

As Gov. of Vermont, I'm sure there were times that Vermont was in competition with other states for Federal money for various peojects. Would you fault Dean for doing what he could to get Vermont as large a chunk of money as he could? By extention, would you expect him, as President, to continue to funnel as much money into Vermont as possible?

The change of jobs necessitates a change in viewpoints. I thought that would be obvious.

[killbotfactory]

25. He said he was against banning semi-auto guns.

That's different than the Assault weapons ban, which did not ban semi-auto guns. And that was two years before the AWB was enacted. Kerry knows the difference, he's just being an ass because he knows most non-gun owners don't understand the details of our gun laws.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. So the NRA just 'misunderstood' him?

According to Andrew Arulanandam, director of public affairs for the NRA, Dean was endorsed by the group in three of his five gubernatorial elections: 1994, 1996 and 1998. In 1992 and 2000, Dean received a top shelf "A" rating from the NRA but was not endorsed.

Like Kerry, Arulanandam said Dean's support for the assault weapons ban isn't in sync with his stance as governor.

"Clearly it's inconsistent," Arulanandam said.

Kerry's attacks were spawned by Dean's recent remark about the Confederate flag, a comment the governor made in defending his position on guns. Dean said the Democratic Party needs to court Southerners with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. Earlier this week, Dean said he regretted the remark and apologized.
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state2003/kerry_on_crime_2003.shtml

[killbotfactory]

33. Screw the NRA. This is simple.

1.) Dean said he wouldn't support a ban on all semi-auto guns.
2.) This was before the Assault weapons ban.
3.) The assault weapons ban did not ban all semi-auto guns.
4.) As governer, he would have no say in what federal laws are enacted.

This is a bullshit issue made up by Kerry's desperate campaign.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. You are talking about the 'one' survey that's been released.

But Dean got NRA support year after year. All of those surveys haven't been released. But we do know his answers convinced them he was opposed to the AWB. Oh well, I guess they're just ignorant gun nuts with Confederate flags on their pickups.

According to Andrew Arulanandam, director of public affairs for the NRA, Dean was endorsed by the group in three of his five gubernatorial elections: 1994, 1996 and 1998. In 1992 and 2000, Dean received a top shelf "A" rating from the NRA but was not endorsed.

Like Kerry, Arulanandam said Dean's support for the assault weapons ban isn't in sync with his stance as governor.

"Clearly it's inconsistent," Arulanandam said.

Kerry's attacks were spawned by Dean's recent remark about the Confederate flag, a comment the governor made in defending his position on guns. Dean said the Democratic Party needs to court Southerners with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. Earlier this week, Dean said he regretted the remark and apologized.
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state2003/kerry_on_crime_2003.shtml

[Malva Zebrina]

12. Kerry is getting irritating

with these attacks on Dean--turning me off . I admire Kerry and like him, but this sort of thing is cheap. It indicates a character flaw--much as I like Kerry--I think he is giving in to childish behavior--or, perhaps, he does not recognize the dire straigts his own country is in--trouncing on Dean does not speak well for Kerry's character.

[Cha]

14. I saw right through kerry's "character" the minute

his "Iraq War Resolution" vote was announced and it has only gone downhill from there.

[blm]

24. Dean not standing against Reagan-Bush on IranContra speaks volumes

to those who understand that it was the greatest subversion of the Constitution in the last century.

[tsipple]

13. In Related News, Kerry Changes Rules of Grammar

In a little noticed amendment to the so-called "partial birth abortion" ban passed by Congress, Senator John Kerry inserted language that reads:

Henceforth, it shall be a crime, punishable by a maximum fine of $45,000,000, to refer to the currently serving junior Senator from Massachusetts without both bolding and underscoring his name. It shall also be a crime, with the same punishment, to refer to the just prior Governor of Vermont using the same emphasis or with capital letters.

President Bush signed the measure without reading it, apparently.

Attorney Floyd Abrams will be taking the case to the U.S. Supreme Court as quickly as possible on free speech grounds. But, in the meantime, John Kerry will continue to attack howard dean at every opportunity.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. I thought satire was supposed to be in the lounge...should we all just

start ridiculing the other candidates and making silly things up?


Is that really the best you can do?

What about the fact that Dean has flip-flopped on the AWB? The NRA doesn't think it is a bogus attack. What good is an A rating from the NRA if they are also calling you inconsistent?

[izzie]

20. Gee I see nothing wrong with Dean's views.

Never had a gun and do not plan to get one but lots of people love the GD things and frankly I do not care as long as they do not bring it to the local supermarket. They can hunt and shot at targets and even run around like nuts in some half baked army for all I care. Be nice if they checked some of the nuts buying them as I have seen some of those, with guns.Also why not go after the people who make the guns if there are to many around. Put a quota on that maybe. Some thing I just do not get. Like why are speed limits 65/75 and they make cars that go 175 MPH.It is the people making these that are a lot of the problem. In this society guns are going to be a big item so lets for get it.

[killbotfactory]

21. Kerry's pathetic. Dean said he would not support a ban on semi-auto guns

Guess what? The assault weapons ban DID NOT BAN SEMI-AUTO WEAPONS.

Kerry should know this since he's GI hunter boy Nam vet.

[Egnever]

22. I am starting to think Kerry wants to loose.

I can find no other explanation for his behavior, when interviewers start saying eniugh about Dean lets talk about you. Theres a problem.

[blm]

26. A reporter actually reported the truth about the "remark"... YAY.

It was about GUNS and not a discussion about race relations like Dean said.

>>>>>
Kerry's attacks were spawned by Dean's recent remark about the Confederate flag, a comment the governor made in defending his position on guns. Dean said the Democratic Party needs to court Southerners with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. Earlier this week, Dean said he regretted the remark and apologized.
>>>>

[MercutioATC]

27. You're STILL fixated on this?

Fine, If it makes you happy, Dean answered a gun question with a race relations answer (not what I think happened). Does it really make ANY diference? Regardless of the question, Dean's positions on gun control and race relations have been stated quite clearly. I don't see what difference it makes.

[LuminousX]

29. With that single revelation

Kerry will surely win now.

I agree, I don't believe Dean lied. Obviously neither does Kerry or Edwards because they haven't gotchya'd him.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. No, Dean answered a gun question with a gun answer and a stupid stereotype

thrown in for good measure.

According to Andrew Arulanandam, director of public affairs for the NRA, Dean was endorsed by the group in three of his five gubernatorial elections: 1994, 1996 and 1998. In 1992 and 2000, Dean received a top shelf "A" rating from the NRA but was not endorsed.

Like Kerry, Arulanandam said Dean's support for the assault weapons ban isn't in sync with his stance as governor.

"Clearly it's inconsistent," Arulanandam said.

Kerry's attacks were spawned by Dean's recent remark about the Confederate flag, a comment the governor made in defending his position on guns. Dean said the Democratic Party needs to court Southerners with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. Earlier this week, Dean said he regretted the remark and apologized.
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state2003/kerry_on_crime_2003.shtml