Luck, pluck propelled Dean to national spotlight

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Mention Howard Dean to the folks who know him best, and they shake their heads in awe, marveling at how their very own "Ho-Ho" has muscled his way to the forefront of Democratic presidential politics.

They see him on TV, firing up the liberals, and they're dumbfounded, because they always knew him as a tightwad governor who spent 10 years excoriating liberals. They see him wowing the "flatlanders" (that's everyone outside of Vermont), whipping them into a frenzy, and they can't square that with the little guy who wore frayed shirts and goofy ties and delivered speeches that lulled listeners into a stupor.

<snip>

And whatever happened to the Howard Dean who, when asked to render an opinion about the governor of Texas back in 1999, always gave the same answer: "I like George Bush, he's a good guy."

<snip>

Instead he would often rant at his detractors, calling them "lunatics," or confronting them with "the finger in the face," as Nelson calls it. At times he would get so mad that the skin on his thick wrestler's neck would redden to the color of raw meat. No wonder some folks used to call him "Little Napoleon."

<snip>

Meanwhile, the Republicans liked him just fine, because they were simpatico. Dean was old money (a descendant of whaling captains), with roots on Park Avenue and in the Hamptons. They also liked that he wasn't a "bleeding heart" - as evidenced by the time he publicly berated a single mother on welfare, saying, "You don't think you ought to work for a living?"
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/7215420.htm

[wryter2000]

1. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't

It seems half the time Dean is excoriated for being unelectable because he's too liberal and the other half the time he's branded as a Republican. It's getting pretty tiresome.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[billbuckhead]

5. Barbour was laughing about how Dean attacks from the left and the right

Old Haley was cutting up on Crossfire one day about how Howrd dean is attacking the other Dems from the left and the right. It sure is hard to figure out what Dean stands for. And when he does get pinned down, he changes his mind if he thinks it will get him more votes. It is tiresome.

[blm]

28. Bingo...what are Dean's core principles?

His inconsistency is ammo for RNC ads. Who do you trust, Dean the governor or Dean the campaigner?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. Most of the criticism of Dean has to do with his temper, his inconsistency

or both. I think it's clear to everyone that he's no liberal except when it suits him politically.

"When people get in my face, I tend to get in theirs," Dr. Dean said in the interview at The Times. "Al Sharpton was in my face last night and I was not going to step one step, half a step, backwards, and I don't care who's in my face.

"I tend to be reflective rather later than sooner," he added. "Now, unfortunately, we all know that nobody's personality is perfect. So the things that make me a strong candidate are also my Achille's heel."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/campaigns/06DEAN.html?hp


Acknowledging his have-it-both-ways approach with a smile, Dean said: "So you can put me down as waffling on the balanced budget amendment.

"I'm already down as waffling on that one. I've waffled before. I'll waffle again"
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/28/ill_mend_iraq_rift_dean_says/

[reprehensor]

3. and...

Working his ass off, campaigning in the Heartland of Bush country in July (Texas), being smart enough to utilize and mobilize the online community in new, groundbreaking ways, being bold enough to criticize the Bush administration's foreign policy when Kerry and Lieberman were voting for the invasion of Iraq.

Not luck.

[helleborient]

4. Author Polman elsewhere on John Kerry....

Seems like this author likes to attack Democratic candidates. Here's an excerpt from his column on August 12, 2003:

"Kerry defended his war vote, and, on the domestic front, he also managed to pitch his health-care plan, which puts heavy emphasis on cost containment. He boasted that Time magazine called it "the best big idea" of the campaign.

However, he did not mention a flap over the plan. The National Journal magazine asked 10 bipartisan health experts to assess the various Democratic health-care plans for the July 19 issue. The experts did not pick a favorite, but Kerry's Web site claimed last week that Kerry's plan had been rated the best - and heralded the news with a graphic of a prize ribbon. But last week, the experts told the Washington Post that Kerry's claim was "patently untrue."

[blm]

25. And it was posted by more than a few Dean teamers.

No proKerry bias for the reporter.

btw...a few other reporters, including Ted Rall, have said the same once they bothered to go to Vermont and really look into Dean's record and his way of governing.

[LuminousX]

6. This is an interesting profile of Dean

And Napoleon really screwed it for the 'little guy' didn't he? Any man who is short who seeks public office has a Napoleon complex. So some people called him "Little Napoleon"... who? His garbageman? His mother? I think it matters who.

This isn't a well cited article but as always, many interesting sections are left on the cutting room floor as they are brought over to DU:

But if you quiz folks long enough in this flannel-and-Birkenstocks town, where bike paths cross interstate highway ramps, you find out that Dean - while as anxious for adulation as any politician - governed with a doctor's personality, making crisp diagnoses, moving on with no second thoughts. He was supremely self-confident, and never felt the need to charm the people who didn't like him.

and this:

Jan Backus, who fought with Dean when she was a liberal state senator, said, "It doesn't matter that he wasn't before, because he's there now. That's a quality that the great politicians have - they come to believe in their own sincerity. The whole state, including me, is awed by what he has done."

It ends with what I think is going to be my favorite quote regarding Howard Dean: "There ain't no wimp in the man. He'd rather be knocked unconscious than run away. And, look, it's good for a man to have a dream. What else is there to live for?"

All in all, a solid, interesting profile of Howard Dean. If you like him, it will reinforce that like and if you dislike him you can relish his attacks on the welfare mom (which the article does say he backtracked on) and his choice of balanced budget over people.

[eileen_d]

7. Heh

He was supremely self-confident, and never felt the need to charm the people who didn't like him.

Ain't that the truth...

[helleborient]

8. A very very distinctive difference from Pres. Bush (n/t)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. Actually that sounds just like Bush

I don't like Bush, and I've never felt him to be 'charming'.

How about you? Do you find Bush 'charming'?

[helleborient]

12. The national media wallowed in how personally charming he is...

I didn't make that up.

There was story after story of how people voted for Bush because they though he would be a great dinner guest.

Molly Ivins talks at length of his "charming" the legislature in Texas.

Again, I didn't make any of this up - this was reality in the last campaign.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. I think Bush is a jerk and I don't care what the media says.

If you feel otherwise, that's your right.

[helleborient]

16. I don't ...but that doesn't negate...

That a major part of Bush's attempts to govern involve trying to charm others.

The article stated that was not Dean's approach.

I see a difference between the two.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. That is the media lie about Bush and it's absolutely false.

Bush does not try to charm those he disagrees with. He ignores them, or lies about them, tries to smear them, uses every dirty trick in the book against them -- that's anything but charming.

You won't get me to defend Bush. To be honest I find him even less charming than Dean.

[helleborient]

18. Why don't you ask John Kerry if it's true or not?

What exactly was Bush doing in closed door meetings with members of Congress?

Trying to charm them?

No?

Was he twisting John Kerry's arm behind his back until he cried uncle?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. Bush sucks no matter what you say. Your defense of him is disgusting.

[helleborient]

20. Anyone who reads this thread....

Will note that I pointed out I do not find George W. Bush charming.

However, I do read newspapers and watch campaigns and read commentators such as Molly Ivins, Paul Krugman, Joe Conason, etc.

What I respond with is a truism - that one of Bush's modes of operation is to attempt to charm those who disagree with him.

I have no intention whatsoever anywhere to defend Pres. Bush.

You are absolutely wrong in your ridiculous attack.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. You said Bush is charming, I disagree

I don't care if you are repeating BS you heard in the media -- it's still BS.

Bush is not charming to those who disagree with him. Although I would say he is a little slicker about it than Dean.


For instance, Bush is probably more in control of his emotions than Dean. I don't think we'll see a picture like this of Bush:



Check out Carol laughing at Dean behind his back in this picture. He sure knows how to make an idiot out of himself.

He really is the picture of childish, petty anger.

I had a gym teacher in junior high who used to poke me in the chest like that. He seemed to take some kind of perverse pleasure in getting in our faces. Maybe someday we'll have a President just like that.

[Name removed]

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[indigo32]

24. There is never ANY explanation of what

was going on in that photo. I'd REALLY like to know the story, as it's sure to NOT be the one it's being used to convey here.

[helleborient]

26. Yep, but I guess I won't hear the explanation...

Since on goes the "ignore" I'm tired of it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

35. Have you really put me on 'Ignore'?

So, I could make some off-the-wall, insulting comment and you wouldn't even see it? How tempting.... NOT

[indigo32]

27. Still Waiting

eom

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Whatever the spin from the Dean folks, our eyes can see for ourselves that this is a picture of a childish, petty, angry, red-faced man.


Explain it however you want.

[indigo32]

31. Don't be ridiculous

I am not "Spinning" anything. I am supporting Clark now BTW. But...don't you suppose we would have heard a little more about it if there had been anything to this pic? You and I both know that probably only Kerry and Dean have that kind of anger towards eachother... and they wouldn't be stupid enough to do this in front of a crowd.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. I heard plenty about Dean being angry, aggressive and non-apologetic

in the debate. One of the things I read was from Dean:

"When people get in my face, I tend to get in theirs," Dr. Dean said in the interview at The Times. "Al Sharpton was in my face last night and I was not going to step one step, half a step, backwards, and I don't care who's in my face.

"I tend to be reflective rather later than sooner," he added. "Now, unfortunately, we all know that nobody's personality is perfect. So the things that make me a strong candidate are also my Achille's heel."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/campaigns/06DEAN.html?hp

The fact is, a picture is a picture. Dean's word are Dean's words. You are welcome to find your own interpretation for them.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. Bush is not charming and neither is Dean. If you think otherwise, fine.

[dsc]

36. So Ivins is a liar too?

Like it or not many, many people find Bush charming.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. If she says Bush is charming, she's wrong. I don't find Bush charming.

Do you find Bush charming? I find Bush nauseating. So sue me.


If you feel it necessary to call her a liar, you have the right to do so.

[indigo32]

21. cool

we agree on something. He came off as a smug little sh!t to me from day one... and my opinion has never changed LOL

[eileen_d]

11. Really?

What difference do you see? I'm not saying Dean is as bad as Bush, of course he isn't - I would certainly vote for Dean if he gets the nod. I am just curious as to how you would contrast Dean with Bush on those points.

[helleborient]

13. Point to one article which says....

Bush did not feel the need to charm those who disagreed with him.

That IS a significant part of Bush's approach to governance.

[eileen_d]

14. I'm not arguing citations here

It was a sincere question soliciting your *opinion*. I don't think Bush ever felt it necessary to charm ME.

In either case, whether a candidate is "charming" or not is highly subjective. Whether Dean or Bush chooses to govern by "charm" or not, I personally don't give a shit. It's their actual decisions combined with respect for the people they are governing that makes a difference. Charm (or lack thereof) has little do do with either of those things.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. But, but, but-

I thought it was that nasty Rove media spin machine. :shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. Well there's no doubt the corporate media has helped Dean's campaign

but I don't think it was at the direction of Rove. Do you?

[blm]

38. they sure have applied the teflon....

very few reporters have scrutinized Dean's actual style of governance.

[whirlygigspin]

39. Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean

Dean is a very nice man and personable.
But in dealing with policy, he fights like a pitt bull.

Perhaps you'd prefer a cuddly pint tutu Daschle type to
get mauled mercilessly by the facist/repukes?

All that being "nice" to facists gets you is dead, or sent to
Guantanamo or Syria for torture--or thrown out of the military for your political views.

Wake up before you end up in a concentration camp.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

40. Dean seems to disagree with your assessment of his personality.

According to Dean, his anger problems have more to do with a personality flaw:

"When people get in my face, I tend to get in theirs," Dr. Dean said in the interview at The Times. "Al Sharpton was in my face last night and I was not going to step one step, half a step, backwards, and I don't care who's in my face.

"I tend to be reflective rather later than sooner," he added. "Now, unfortunately, we all know that nobody's personality is perfect. So the things that make me a strong candidate are also my Achille's heel."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/campaigns/06DEAN.html?hp

Dean says he gets angry without thinking about the consequences. But we will all have to live with the consequences if he becomes President.

[whirlygigspin]

41. if your like being a victim

Then your right, Dean is not your man.

You can take compfort in feeling morally superior
as a victim and stay free from responsability, how convenient.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

42. It's not about me. It's about choosing a President.

Of course nobody's personality is perfect. But the question we need to ask, is

do we want somebody who says "I tend to be reflective rather later than sooner" in the most important job in the world?

Do we want someone representing America in the world by getting in everybody's face? Isn't that just what we've been doing wrong with Bush in charge?

It seems that Dean is telling every two-bit dictator in the world exactly how to push his buttons: just get in his face.

[eileen_d]

43. So is this a Montana thing? Cuz I agree with you.

Seriously - you're in MT right? Me too.

You're exactly right, it is about choosing a President. And Dean being a "feisty little bastard" (as I've seen in a supporter's sig) impresses me NOT ONE BIT. I want a leader, not an "in-your-face" dude.