Kerry "hides" from Dean at Dem Dinner

[dajabr]

--snip--

Kerry and Dean remained relatively civil if not chilly in their dislike from a distance. As expected, Dean rapped "Washington insiders" for not getting the job done and supporting programs such as No Child Left Behind and military actions such as the Iraq war.

Shortly after Dean's raucous introduction, Kerry took a seat in the far rear of the room sitting at the last seat on the table. Never once clapping for his opponent's stump, Kerry listened casually in between scribbling notes for his upcoming speech.

When Dean concluded, he headed straight down the center of the crowd, nearing the exit and Kerry. As the anticipated "moment" inched handshake by handshake closer, the cameras gathered and pens poised over paper. Alas, as Dean reached Kerry's table, Kerry turned his back toward Dean and chatted with restaurant workers at the bar.

Kerry section of: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html

[wtmusic]

1. Kerry's all class

:eyes:

[SahaleArm]

26. Maybe he didn't like being called a...

:D

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

2. I think it's safe to say

There won't be a Dean/Kerry or Kerry/Dean ticket. :)

[CMT]

3. The biggest problem I think John Kerry has had in this campaign

is that he felt he was entitled to the democratic nomination and didn't have to fight for it. Now he has to fight for it and he is not at all happy about it.

[eileen_d]

7. Well, on the other hand

If Kerry knows he's qualified to be president and is getting beaten by another guy he doesn't think is qualified... I think he has a right to be a little pissed off. I don't think Kerry is ENTITLED to the nomination without competition, but I do think he is more qualified than Dean to be president.

(Of course I have no real evidence that Kerry is thinking this way... but you don't have real evidence that he "felt he was entitled to the democratic nomination" either, so it's all theory)

[CWebster]

24. Presidential qualification

is not in pulling the kind of behaviors that chimpy and his gang of goons have pulled -- succeeding in alienating us from all our allies while making us the most unpopular kid on the global block.

Being pompous elitist asshole IS exactly how Kerry earned his reputation.

[brainshrub]

4. This link will show you the catfight.

http://www.rathergood.com/independent_woman/

[eileen_d]

5. How junior high!

I mean the article, not either candidate.

"Omigod, did you see Kerry? He was, like, *totally* dissing Dean. Dean was like going to shake his hand and like Kerry reached out but then he like ran his hand through his hair and said 'PSYCH!!' Dean was like so bummed out."

[blm]

6. Why would he shake a guy who treated liberals like shit hands?

Or do all of you believe that Dean is truly a populist?

Mention Howard Dean to the folks who know him best, and they shake their heads in awe, marveling at how their very own "Ho-Ho" has muscled his way to the forefront of Democratic presidential politics.

They see him on TV, firing up the liberals, and they're dumbfounded, because they always knew him as a tightwad governor who spent 10 years excoriating liberals. They see him wowing the "flatlanders" (that's everyone outside of Vermont), whipping them into a frenzy, and they can't square that with the little guy who wore frayed shirts and goofy ties and delivered speeches that lulled listeners into a stupor.

<snip>

And whatever happened to the Howard Dean who, when asked to render an opinion about the governor of Texas back in 1999, always gave the same answer: "I like George Bush, he's a good guy."

<snip>

Instead he would often rant at his detractors, calling them "lunatics," or confronting them with "the finger in the face," as Nelson calls it. At times he would get so mad that the skin on his thick wrestler's neck would redden to the color of raw meat. No wonder some folks used to call him "Little Napoleon."

<snip>

Meanwhile, the Republicans liked him just fine, because they were simpatico. Dean was old money (a descendant of whaling captains), with roots on Park Avenue and in the Hamptons. They also liked that he wasn't a "bleeding heart" - as evidenced by the time he publicly berated a single mother on welfare, saying, "You don't think you ought to work for a living?"

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/7215420.htm

[wtmusic]

8. Um, maybe to be civil

Kerry never had disdain for Dean until Dean's numbers started blowing Kerry out of the water.

I think that says it all.

[LuminousX]

9. It's cherry season again.

My choices from the same article

"He's also the savviest politician I've ever seen. He has been radicalized by circumstances into becoming the great white hope of liberals everywhere. And Howard, being the smart person that he is, recognized those circumstances from the beginning."
...

After that, he really got plucky - especially with Democrats who wanted to bankroll big programs. Dean, the son and grandson of Wall Street stockbrokers, was obsessed with balancing the budget. As State Auditor Liz Ready recalled, "I was a legislator back then. He was tough, very direct. He'd say things that would make us cringe, like, 'You've got your nuts on the left, Senator Ready, there's no end to what they want.' " (When Dean left office, the budget was balanced, and the state had the highest bond rating in New England.)
...

In the end, he signed the law behind closed doors, and some observers thought he had signed his political death warrant. But, in Wright's words, "Howard has the best political instincts of anyone I've ever seen." Dean survived reelection that year - and then he went national with the issue, talking up equal rights at lavish gay-group dinners (where money is raised for national races).
...

The locals don't know whether he can pull it off, but they know he's loving the fight. Freyne, the political columnist, said, "There ain't no wimp in the man. He'd rather be knocked unconscious than run away. And, look, it's good for a man to have a dream. What else is there to live for?"
...

[wtmusic]

10. Sounds more like sour grapes

;-)

[ACPS65]

11. Yeah

Good thing we have canidates like Howard Dean who is such a bastion of moral probity and uprightness. He'd never do anything to slight a canidate, like running attack ads.

[LuminousX]

12. Because attack ads have NEVER been run in a campaign before

[eileen_d]

13. Yeah, and Dean is a NEW type of politician too

Of course when Dean attacks Kerry, he's expressing the morally righteous anger of his grassroots constituency. When Kerry attacks Dean, he's a filty career politician and Washington insider playing politics as usual.

[LuminousX]

16. *I* never said that

Candidates have to attack each other once in awhile. It is part of the campaign process. Dean isn't a 'new' type of politician, that has never been a tag applied to him, he is a new type of campaigner.

[eileen_d]

20. I don't understand what you're saying

If Dean is participating in "part of the campaign process" by attacking other candidates (as most candidates do), how does that make him a new type of campaigner? Probably you are referring to his fundraising methods and use of the Internet.

And really, Dean has never been called a "new type of politician"? Funny, from reading the hype on DU I would think he was a new type of carbon based life form.

[LuminousX]

21. That would be your inference, not an implication by anyone

The new type of campaigning really is using new tools to accomplish something that was difficult in the past. By organizing through the internet, Dean was able to have campaign activity in states that he couldn't afford to open an office. This gave him a lot of advance action, with volunteers ready and willing when the official campaign rolled into town.

I remember stories posted here regarding public events where only Kucinich and Dean supporters were present passing out literature.

That is the 'new' campaigning, which isn't really 'new' just more effective due to new tools.

One does not throw away the tools that have worked in the past.

[eileen_d]

53. I still don't care - I still think Kerry is better

It's great that people are becoming involved politically, but that's not for everyone. Do I have to be participating in a cutting edge campaign in order to have a president I can respect? That's what some Dean supporters make it sound like.

As I said in another post: RESISTANCE IS FUTILE, YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED is the message I get from the Dean supporters around here. I am an American citizen. I want the most qualified president. I shouldn't have to jump on a bandwagon to get one.

[killbotfactory]

14. Quit crying in your teacup, Kerry.

You're getting beat for a reason.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

Kerry is such an ass

What a sore loser. Kerry has attacked Dean over and over again, low-blowing him and he still can't get any traction. This is how we can expect this man to act if be became president - blame everyone else but himself for his own ineptitude and lack of leadership qualities.

Kerry should resign from the Senate.

[helleborient]

18. Totally unnecessary personal slams, imo (n/t)

[AWD]

34. No way!

Kerry should resign from the Senate.

Kerry is (with exceptions from the last 2 years) a wonderful Senator. I don't want him to resign at all!

I want him to stay in the Senate, where Vince Whitacre and I can send him bills from the House, and he can pass them and send them to President Dean!

[polpilot]

47. Kerry was swatted like a bug.

Dean '04...

[MaineDem]

49. I'm not sure what you mean by your statement

But Kerry certainly wasn't "swatted" at the dinner referred to in the article. Neither was Dean.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

15. Dupe

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Kerry snubs Dean at dinner.

lol

[LuminousX]

19. Benefit of the Doubt

Okay, Kerry was avoiding an embarrasing picture, embarrasing for both candidates. If he shook Dean's hand, it would have been disingenuous. If he outright snubbed Dean, that would have been plain cold. By making himself 'unavailable' Dean could pass right on by, no photograph of the two shaking hands with sourpuss looks on their faces, and no real story except for the few of us here who follow every step and syllable of the candidates

[DrFunkenstein]

25. Thank You

I've seen them shake hands plenty of times at the debates. The Note has a thing for Kerry, though. They repeatedly forget to mention endorsements for Kerry and generally have a negative spin on him.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_10774270/Road+To+The+White+House/__hr_Kerry+And+Dean.jpg?bcxC_r_ApnM4nagG

[Lady President]

22. Dean's not warm to the other candidates

Dean hasn't exactly been sunshine and lollipops to the other candidates either. We've had many threads here discussing how Dean seem disconnected to the other candidates during the debates. The other eight clap, nod, and smile for each other while Dean doesn't react (or grimaces and mumbles). Why should Kerry go out of his way to be pleasant when Dean hasn't shown much respect for any of the other candidates?

[Sean Reynolds]

41. Of course he does....

Because they're all attacking him during the debate. Dean this, Dean that...blah, blah, blah! Wouldn't you get a little pissy too if you were the focus of every damn debate?

[Lady President]

46. Let's see if I get it

When Dean decides it time to shake hands and be friendly with the other candidates, they're supposed to follow suit. But, when Dean is the one who acts unfriendly, it's the other candidates' fault. Sounds reasonable. :eyes:

Dean is being coddled by the media, so the other candidates have no choice but to point out problems with his platform and statements during the debates. Also, everytime he says that he's 'anti-establishment' he is telling several candidates that their lifetimes of public service are worthless. I would be pissed about that.

[CWebster]

23. Why how presidential....

I could go on...

[MercutioATC]

27. We don't need to do this...

Maybe Kerry really WAS talking to somebody else. I know it pisses me off when somebody posts some petty, outlandish anti-Dean tripe that could have any number of different, more rational explanations (I won't mention names, but there's a picture of Dean and Sharpton at the "Rock the Vote" event that's totally out of context that comes to mind).

Garbage like this is counterproductive because when you're seen as reaching for every little slam, you lose credibility (again, I can think of a couple posters this applies to, at least for me). Legitimate gripes are fine, but why stoop to such trivial attacks?

[dajabr]

28. Take it up with the Kerry Campaign embed...

Apparently, he and The Note found it "newsworthy." :shrug:

[LuminousX]

29. Doesn't make it, 'Discussion Worthy' though

It reads more like something a tabloid would write about (EXCLUSIVE! Jack Nicholson spills drink on waiter! Was it malicious intent or signs of drug use?)

[dajabr]

32. Simple...

If it's not worth discussing, it will sink like a rock.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. You falsely used the word 'hides' -- that's your spin, no one else's.

Now you are trying to blame it on someone else. :puke:

[dajabr]

31. Like...

Dean "crumbling" in Iowa?

please...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. Yes. Exactly. Both are spin.

What else would you call it?

lol

[dajabr]

35. You did not deem it necessary to call the other topic "spin"

You called it, "The simple posting of a poll"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=81251&mesg_id=81342&page=

Why the double standard?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. Why attack me?

You posted a story, titled it with some aggressive spin.

That is your privilege.

The other poster posted a poll, titled it with some aggressive spin.

That is his privilege.

I've said that both are spin, and you accuse me of having a double standard. :eyes:

[dajabr]

39. No...

You said the posts were spin HERE - in this thread.

But, you characterized the other post yesterday as "a simple poll" in THAT thread.

Explain to me your overnight conversion then? Otherwise, I can't take your point seriously.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

40. In post 33: I clearly say "Yes. Exactly. Both are spin."

I don't understand why you are so concerned about what I have to say, anyway... is my viewpoint really that important to you? :shrug:

I mean, are you going to lay awake at night if I don't admit...something... what is it you are accusing me of again?

[dajabr]

42. You felt it necessary...

To critcise the headline of the topic I posted. Otherwise it would be of no interest to me really.

I'll try one more time.

Yesterday, this post http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=81251&mesg_id=81251

was in your estimation, "a simple posting of a poll."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=81251&mesg_id=81342&page=

Today, in trying to discredit my post, you call that very same post (which was a "simple poll" to you yesterday) "spin" (post #33).

So, my point is how can I (or anyone) take your critcism seriously if you exhibit a clear double standard?

Your apparent "flip-flop" indicates that you are probably not qualified to weigh in on what is spin and what is not.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. I can't believe you are so obsessed with me and what I'm saying.

But despite your single minded focus on my words, in return, I couldn't care less about your opinion or whether you think I have a double standard.

[dajabr]

44. Then...

Feel free to put me on ignore, since you could not seem to keep yourself from commenting on my thread.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to expose the hypocrisy of my critics as I see fit...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. I'll feel free to do what I want. You feel free to do what you want.

lol

[AWD]

37. As a candidate....

...I can tell you that my concentration must be on many things atonce in situations like that.

If another influential Dem is nearby and walking past, at least the effort of contact MUST be made to prevent situations like this one.

And in a high-profile race like this, it's even more important.

I've learned that every little thing I do can be looked at under a microscope, so in public, I must be aware of my surroundings at all times. Payback for such violations are usually a return snub of some sort. Very petty crap, but also very minor.

A small handshake should have happened, but it shouldn't be such a massive deal.

But this will also go right under the bridge in a hurry...nothing big here, unless it becomse a pattern.

[MaineDem]

36. Sorry folks, this is creative writing

Someone is getting paid to create sensation, I'd gather.

I was there. There wasn't even enough room to push a chair back and stand up. The crowds around both candidates were pretty impressive. I was 3 seats away from where this suppossed "snub" took place and, umm, it didn't happen like it sounds.

I just love the jumping to conclusions that's done by reporters and readers. :eyes:

[blm]

48. Where in the article does Kerry HIDE from Dean? I don't see it.

Of course, Dean teamers have a tendency to see race relations triumph in an NRA article where there is none, too. Typical.

[dajabr]

50. It's not...

That's why the word "hides" is in qoutes.

Use "evades," "steer's clear of," or "avoids" if you think it fits better?

Or take your pick here: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus

[blm]

51. Quotes are usually used to mean someone ELSE said it, not you.

Or have things changed recently.

[dajabr]

52. Pardon my bad grammar...

Back to the books for me!

There are many ways to go wrong with quotation marks. They are often used ironically:

She ran around with a bunch of "intellectuals."
The quotation marks around "intellectuals" indicate that the writer believes that these are in fact so-called intellectuals, not real intellectuals at all. The ironic use of quotation marks is very much overdone, and is usually a sign of laziness indicating that the writer has not bothered to find the precise word or expression necessary.
Advertisers unfortunately tend to use quotation marks merely for emphasis:

"FRESH" TOMATOES
59 CENTS A POUND
The influence of the more common ironic usage tends to make the reader question whether these tomatoes are really fresh. Underlining, bold lettering, all caps--there are several less ambiguous ways to emphasize words than placing them between quotation marks.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/quotation_marks.html

[whirlygigspin]

54. I feel your pain

No doubt it must be gauling for Kerry to be bested by a
Vermonter. good grief, what is the world coming to?
The people are indeed revolting, said Marie Antoinette.

But for his position, Kerry is showing very little class
in the way he is reacting to the besting, though.
He seems quite petty and self-indulgent in his reaction,
perhaps even embittered.

I suppose it's hard knowing you are the better orator
and still losing out. Added to that perhaps the dream of
re-kindling the era of Camelot and all that might mean
to the man.

One can only hope he can display his most
admirable qualities in defeat, as well as in victory.

Learning how to lose is a difficult thing, best done when we
are young and bounce back more readily than later in life,
when we are apt to take it more personally.

I must admit that in a perfect world, Kerry would be King,
but alas, those days are past.

We are in the age of Bubba. Bubba Gump, Bubba Clinton, and Bubba
Bush. And so, Bubba Dean. He may not be a Bubba, but he is a Vermonter,
and in Boston,that's as close to a Bubba as you can get.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. Kerry has a better temperment, and is more qualified to be President

His policies make more sense for America. This isn't a debate about who can produce the most childish ridicule or satire.

It's a serious choice about who should be President.