The Democratic Party: Outside In/Dean, Clinton, Gore, DLC, NDN (?)

[Rose Siding]

snip>
The Dean split is mirrored in the centrist New Democrat movement as well. No organization has been more hostile to Dean than the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). In May, Al From and Bruce Reed, the chairman and the president of the DLC -- the group that served as a policy springboard for Clinton's rise -- wrote their now-infamous manifesto warning that nominating Dean, whom they view as hopelessly left-wing, would bring certain defeat for Democrats in 2004. But, for months, another prominent New Democrat has been making a different case. Simon Rosenberg, who cut his teeth on Clinton's 1992 campaign and now heads the New Democrat Network (NDN), sees Dean as the most innovative and potentially transformative Democrat since Clinton himself. Like Stern, Rosenberg is a bit of a rebel within his own movement. He once worked for From, but his organization is now challenging the DLC and is becoming an increasingly influential player in Democratic politics. Unlike the more top-down DLC, NDN is building a grassroots network of donors and has become a key player in the new world of 527s. "NDN has not endorsed Dean or embraced him, but we have given our opinion that this is a serious campaign that is going to change the party," says Rosenberg.

As the party's split into Deaniacs and anti-Dean Clintonites unfolds, one of the most intriguing subplots concerns the machinations of Gore. Immediately after the Florida recount was decided in 2000, Gore's senior aides were purged from the DNC and Clinton's were installed. Some ex-Gore staffers are still bitter about the coup, and several express admiration for what Dean is doing.

The two men have a strained history, but lately Gore is sounding more and more like Dean. His three most important speeches since leaving office have been harsh attacks on President Bush's Iraq policy and his abuse of the Patriot Act. The two most recent were delivered before MoveOn.org, the Internet network for grassroots liberals, which is overwhelmingly pro-Dean. Some suspect that, just as Dean went outside the Beltway and built his own high-tech grassroots army to bypass the sclerotic D.C. establishment, so is Gore. It's not a bad way for him to exercise influence in the party, if he wants to make a potential endorsement more powerful or if he still harbors hopes of running for president in 2008. "The rest of the Democratic infrastructure is controlled by the Clintons," says one top Democrat.

Perhaps Gore would not endorse the former Vermont governor (though Joe Trippi, Dean's campaign manager, says "they talk relatively regularly"). Regardless, he'll have to choose sides, because the Democrats are splitting into two parties: the party of Clinton, and the party of Dean.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/13/opinion/main583484.shtml

This whole article is interesting.

I've never heard of the NDN but here's the site.

http://www.newdem.org/

[slinkerwink]

1. wow!

I didn't know that Gore's been talking to Dean regularly----that rocks!!

[dave29]

2. This is a very interesting article

to say the least

[slinkerwink]

3. I concur because Gore's sounding a lot like Dean

these days....his moveon.org speech this past Sunday was more proof of that. I had no idea that they'd been talking but I think that's cool!!!

We definitely need to revitalize the Democrat party....the power of the DLC is long gone now, and the DNC fucking needs to get on board before the nomination if Dean wins a lot of primaries.

[Rose Siding]

4. This part is intriguing

snip>
And soon, according to an aide, his campaign will unveil a group of foreign policy luminaries who had been advising several candidates but have recently decided to back only Dean.
end snip>

I wonder who that is?

[BUSHGONE]

27. Dean sounding more and more like Gore!

I must step in here and disagree with the comment that Gore is sounding more and more like Dean. Gore has been giving these speeches on the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act and how the President has mislead the American People since 2001. Long before Dean even started ruining his campaign. As a matter of fact Gore has been setting the whole charge towards this President on Foreign Policy. You should give credit where credit is do. Dean didn't have much of a foreign policy experience, and for that matter still doesn't. To Dean's credit, he was smart enough to copy from one of this country leading authority's.

Good luck with the Dean thing, since this election will be all about our country's foreign policy, and the war in Iraq, Dean has a long road to ho. :hi:

[nocreativename]

13. This is a good article

A Paleontology Prof once said, “in the world of natural selection if you don't evolve, you die.”

I'm fairly new, and have a whole heck of a lot to learn, but it seems, politics is the fasts evolving art out there. I think we could call the DLC, dinocrates.

[blm]

5. Funny, I wonder what Trippi means by "relatively regularly"

that sounds like spinning it into more than it is, because the blood between the two is not that good, and The Note referenced a piece from WSJ saying Gore will NOT be endorsing Dean.

[slinkerwink]

6. of course Gore can't officially endorse Dean during the primaries...

but Gore can unofficially back Dean. A lot of politicians are unofficially backing other presidential Democratic candidates....

[Rose Siding]

7. Who knows?

Sounds infrequent, anyway. There's nothing here to suggest any endorsement and their "strained history" is noted.

Gore's speeches have hit some of the same basic notes as Dean's. I'm glad they are talking at all with all the subterrainian power struggles.

[blm]

12. If people would notice what the candidates are saying

they are ALL pretty much on the same page. To say he sounds like Dean is absurd, because when you read Kerry's foreign policy speeaches from 2002 and early 2003 and then Dean's a few months later, Dean's sound eerily similar. Same with Kerry's environmental speeches.

It's not like Dean has a firm grasp on these issues, and kerry's been working on both ACTIVELY for over 30 years.

Gary Hart said last May that Dean has no grip on foreign policy, and he should know, since Hart is someone Dean called. "Gary, what do I do?"

Dean's sense of military strategy was NOWHERE to be found in this exchange with Russert in July 2002. Instead of backing up Kerry and Gore who had been scathing in their criticisms of Bush's failure at Tora Bora, Dean supported Bush instead. Dean didn't GET that Tora Bora allowed Bin Laden and most of Al Qaeda to escape and strengthen. They should have been defeated soundly there. Gore and Dean were NOT on the same page. Dean didn't know WTF he was talking about.


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.

[dsc]

14. and when I ask for a link of Gary Hart's actual words

I will get a story of a grand conspiracy. So I won't bother to ask just merely point out that the actually words are nowhere to be found.

[blm]

25. Read them again, then. Why pretend it isn't true?

Just because the link is broken and the article archived you think you can pretend that my post is wrong?


>>>>>>>>
While resisting a request to handicap the remaining contenders for the White House, the former Colorado senator offered these observations about some still in the field:
>>>>>
Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, lacks crucial defense or foreign policy experience.
Joe Lieberman, U.S. senator and former vice presidential candidate, is making a futile appeal to the "amorphous middle" by parroting Bush policies.
>>>>>
Dean, the former Vermont governor, is so inexperienced on defense and foreign relations that before his first trip to Israel in January, he called Hart and said, "Gary, what do I do?" Hart said.
>>>>
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E64%257E1373786,00.html

[redqueen]

24. Wha?

Is he TRYING to piss off liberals?

[Zynx]

8. This is something I have picked up on for some time.

Most of the criticism of Dean from the Dem establishment is not that they think he is George McGovern. He is nowhere near as liberal as George McGovern so it is not the issue. The issue is that Bubba is afraid of losing control of the party.

I personally don't like Clinton. I have very rarely had anything positive to say about him or Hillary. They are the types that pushed for the yes vote on the IWR and have sold us out to the corporate and trial lawyer special interest groups not to mention Hollywood elitists. Sure he won the White House, but losses in state and local elections have gutted this party of its strength.

[eileen_d]

9. Is Clinton really "in control" of the Democratic Party these days?

Please elaborate.

[Zynx]

15. Clinton controls the leadership positions in the party.

He appointed, either directly or through machine-like party politics, virtually everybody in the Democratic hierarchy with Terry McCaulife(or however you spell this prick's name) being the number one example. However, it seems to me that the people, the most important part, are revolting and demanding change. We are tired of losing.

[loyalsister]

17. Good point on trial lawyers

They have done a great deal of good and have legitimate concerns. However, they can go to far and have put us in a position where we could be working at cross hairs when working for health care. BEWARE of anyone who's got the trial lawyer support. They will have lots of trouble getting the support of physicians that they will need to get their plans passed.
The Dr.s are in a position where they are fighting against insurance companies over their unfairly ever-increasing malpractice insurance. Many trial lawyers aren't interested in seeing that problem solved. They get mad when legislators side with the Dr.s. That's not to say they try to eliminate all responsibility. Many support midiation, etc. I know some who get a tremendous amount of lobby support on health care issues. We really need support of Dr.s on this. It makes sense to offer them a bone on this issue.

[Rose Siding]

19. That bone wouldn't go to the docs

but to the ins industry and they DON'T lower rates when settlement amts are lowered- check CA for the last 10 years.

If a doc cuts off the wrong leg or the wrong tit, some of us think that's worth more than a quarter of a million dollars, especially until there's a system to weed out the careless docs with multiple findings. THAT'S what the ins scale should be based on.

[loyalsister]

21. You don't get it!

It's perception. The right wing has taken this issue and played them. They have been convinced that the insurance companies will punish them more if they don't get their tort reform, etc. I have seen docs pushed into larger and larger practices that they hate because they would rather spend more time with patients. Republicans have manipulated it so that docs would be competing against patients politically. The Democrats have to make them believe they are siding with them somehow.
The docs who genuinely care are interested in a push for mediation and insurance reforms. They will support democrats who are interested in helping them push the insurance companies, but they want to see more mediation so that they can have leverage against the insurance companies.
Obviously malpractice should be an option. I'm not suggesting we do away with it. I am suggesting that we don't get support from docs on things like universal health care because of the strength of the alliance and indebtedness to trial lawyers.

[DemDogs]

28. Democrats do the right thing

This is nonsense. Lawyers and doctors have and can work together. They did on the Patients Bill of Rights, working against HMOs on behalf on both their clients: patients. When what doctors want is to protect themselves from responsibility for their errors, do you want to "work with them"? (Well, if you are Dean supporter, you might, since he is for capping damages and limiting access to court when your HMO screws you.)
As for malpractice insurance, don't buy into the Republican riff on this. The problem is and always has been the investment activity of the insurance companies, not the cost of malpractice awards. The doctors get pinched (they make less money), but the problem is not the doctors, its the insurance companies. Edwards was a trial lawyer and he says that good Democrats can support helping doctors pay the premiums and looking at insurance company antitrust exemptions and punishing lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits. What we can't do is throw the most vulnerable injured and wronged in front of the bus in order to court the support of doctors who, often as not because of their income, support Republicans anyway. Even if they did not, we have to the right thing. You've heard of that, right? Doing the right thing? Well, maybe not, since you said,
"We need to get Dr.s support on this" -- "offer them a bone" -- what do mean -- the strong bones of a girl with cerebral palsy caused by an arrogant doctor who wouldn't listen to nurses telling him to do a c-section? Read Edwards book Four Trials, and I think you will feel differently.

[Rose Siding]

30. Have you a link about Dean favoring limiting access?

This is from his policy page:

But access to the courts is a fundamental civil right for all Americans, and many patients receive compensation for their injuries through the justice system.

We need a medical malpractice system that works for both doctors and patients. Patients and their families should have recourse to legal remedies if they suffer injuries and are wronged. Doctors shouldn’t be run out of business by soaring premiums or spend countless hours defending frivolous lawsuits.
snip>
Any reforms in this area should meet two tests. They should screen out frivolous lawsuits, and they should protect access to the courts for valid claims so that victims of medical negligence receive fair compensation.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_policy_health_medicalmalpractice

I agree that the real villian in the system is the insurance industry's quest for profit.

But would you disagree that frivolous lawsuits exist and eat up a good deal of resources in the health care industry? It seems to me that the transparency and credibility of any system of arbitration would be the real dealbreaker.

[eileen_d]

10. I'm not a "Deaniac" or an "anti-Dean Clintonite"

I'm an American voter. Articles like this seem to want to create some kind of conspiracy or "rumble" where there is none.

Isn't "The New Republic" the same rag that regularly gives Dems Ds and Fs?

[Rose Siding]

11. That's the one

And I don't like that grading page either.

I came across this on the CBS site and the NDN caught my interest, more than anything. It's not easy to get to know what happens inside different party factions. With the stakes being nearly all the power in the world, you KNOW stuff goes on.

This article just reads like political gossip- some of it's likely so, some not. I am a Dean supporter, btw.

[janx]

20. TNR has struck me as somewhat of a gossip publication.

I'm not familiar with its reputation though.

In any case, this rumor about a Dean/Clinton split is making the rounds, particularly in freeperland.

Edit: P.S. I have never read anything that really substantiates the rumor. It is more likely that Clinton et al. are backing Dean just as much as the other candidates.

[w4rma]

16. Dean still on top of money race (NDN: "best-run campaign we’ve ever seen")

WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 — In the surreal mind-set of the campaign expectations game, psychology can get twisted at the end of every quarter. Democratic front-runner Howard Dean’s campaign publicly set $15 million as its goal for fund raising for the third quarter, which ended at midnight Tuesday. According to Dean’s Web site he raised $14.8 million, with last-minute contributions still being counted.

DEAN HAD dramatically exceeded fund-raising expectations in the second quarter by collecting $7.6 million. Is his $14.7 million a wee bit of a deflating result for the third quarter? Only if you live on the plane of surreal expectations.

EXTRAORDINARY MONEY MACHINE

Dean’s extraordinary money machine is still far more efficient than anything Missouri Rep. Dick Gephardt, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, or the other Democratic contenders have working for them.

Dean is on course to have enough money to air television ads and hire operatives in states where fund-raising laggards may not be able to during the hustle-bustle of primaries that will take place in February and the first week of March.
…
“We do believe it is an important decision that we’re going to have to make, because in the end Bush is just raising this money.... They’re going to raise $200 million and spend it against the Democrats between April and August when we go to the convention.... If we make the decision, it would be to compete with Bush. We’ve already proven that we can compete with the other Democrats.”

Simon Rosenberg, who heads the centrist New Democrat Network, put the Dean bounty in perspective by noting that in a 10-candidate field the former Vermont governor was able to raise 50 percent more than Bill Clinton raised in the best quarter of his 1996 re-election effort. Rosenberg called Dean’s feat “almost miraculous” and added, “We have to recognize that the Dean campaign is the best-run campaign we’ve ever seen.”

Taking the party-wide view, Rosenberg pointed to what almost no one else has noticed: Based on the preliminary estimates for the third quarter, the 10-person Democratic field collectively will have outraised the Bush campaign, an indication of how fired up Democratic donors are.

“If Bush is this supposed fund-raising king, then this so-called ‘weak’ Democratic field — to use Karl Rove’s word — is outraising him,” Rosenberg said.
…
http://www.msnbc.com/news/974339.asp
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=52916

[Cormac1]

18. DRAFT GORE

[no name no slogan]

22. Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss

That article pretty much sums it up: two camps of centrists/corporate-friendly Dems fighting over control of the party. No wonder people are fleeing the ship in droves these days.

[Rose Siding]

23. Partly but it's deeper.

It seems to be a struggle that goes straight through all of the party, not just the most centrist. A commentary on Kos addressed this today:

snip>
Divisions over ideology can be easily accepted in our party. We do have a big tent, and policy divisions are a reality we can learn to live with. Indeed, we have to live with them. Electoral realities mean that Democrats in the south have to be more moderate or conservative than those in the West Coast or in new England.
But the hatred the establishment feels against Dean has nothing to do with ideology. Dean hasn't paid his dues with the establishment. Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi has made his name working the campaigns of insurgent (hence anti-establishment) candidates like Jerry Brown. He is not part of the chummy inside-DC club of Democratic Party consultants.

If Dean wins the nominantion, he becomes the head of the Democratic Party. He gets to replace McAuliffe and fill the top ranks at the DNC. Suddenly, a "DNC Chairman Joe Trippi" is a real possibility, and for an establishment that has spent the better half of the last decade laughing at Trippi's antics and dismissing him as a kook are suddenly standing on shaky ground.

snip>
The optimist in me hopes that this "establishment" will realize the power of what Dean (and SEIU in the union world) is building and embrace it, whether Dean wins the nomination or otherwise. There is no mystery as to why Dean (and Clark, to a lesser degree) have captured the fervent support of so many people, while their opponents struggle to make an impact. The establishment throws away that kind of success at its own peril.

Winning is the key, not who holds the levers of power at the DNC, DSCC, DCCC and other Democratic Party institutions. No one should lose sight of that goal.

http://www.dailykos.com/

[no name no slogan]

26. Kos == Dean apologist

I stopped reading Kos a long time ago after his pro-Dean bias became so glaringly apparent (last spring). I never really cared for him that much, as he seemed to be more of a Clinton apologist than a true liberal Democrat.

It still doesn't change the fact that we've got two sets of white, male, upper-middle-class, big-business friendly "socially liberal/fiscally conservative" yuppies who want to control the party machinery of the party of the American workers.

We'll still get a party "leader" who supports an unfettered military budget, pro-"free trade" policy, the death penalty, "welfare reform", and a whole slew of other Republican-lite programs.

No thanks. We already HAVE a party like that. And it sure ain't the DEMOCRATS.

[no name no slogan]

29. Divide and conquer

Dean getting in with the DLC? But, but, but, he's NOT a DLC wishy-washy apologist! He's DIFFERENT!! He's ANGRY! Yeah, right.

Previous to his split over the Iraq issue, Dean was the DLC's poster boy. He led their effort to elect more Democratic governors in 2002 (worked real well, huh?). His re-entering the fold of the corpocrats should be a suprise to nobody.

I really do hope the centrists beat the crap out of each other in this stupid little infighting match. Then maybe the liberals and progressives can take our party back from the Rockefeller Republicans who have run it for the last decade. Maybe then we can have a REAL party that isn't afraid to FIGHT for working people and not be so damn worried about "offending" its corporate donors and the yuppies in the 'burbs ("ew, blue-collar workers. How GROSS!").

The more the Clintonites and Goreites take this party toward that yellow stripe in the middle of the road, the more irrelevant it becomes. And voter turnout will continue to decrease, because there will be no MAJOR differences between the Tweedle-Dum and the Tweedle-Dumber party.