Republicans are campaigning for Dean: Comparing him to McGovern

[Meshuga]

Look at what Republicans are selling on the internet(This is not the 'Republicans for Dean' who actually like Dean):

http://www.cafeshops.com/rightnation/152866

This is the stuff that scares me. I don't want another four years of Bush.

A second Bush term would be even worse than the first! Bush didn't win in 2000 and look at what he has done. Imagine this guy thinking the country is behind him...

[Padraig18]

1. So?

Who's to say the country won't be behind him? :hi:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. like every single poll I see nowadays

you know - the head to head matchups?

Dean down by 9 to shrub in latest Gallup Poll

[MrMonk]

2. Check out the goods for sale

Can someone contact the real "Republicans for Dean" and show them how their name is being abused?

The "Dean 2004 = McGovern 1972" meme was broadcast just a few days ago in one of Safire's columns. I said then that it just shows how much Dean worries the Republicans. (Disclaimer: not necessarily a Dean supporter, I'm just calling it how I see it.)

BTW: If "Dean 2004 = McGovern 1972", would that mean that "Bush 2006 = Nixon 1974"?

[AP]

9. Nixon won in 72. If not for Watergate, a Republican probably would have...

...won in 76 too.

[DemNoir]

3. Yeah right

The American electorates keen sense of history is at work here....If one in ten people even knew who Mcgovern was I would be shocked.

Give me a giant break. What nonsense.

[Occulus]

4. HAH!

Considering that Dean's biggest base is likely to be a group of voters too young to even know who McGovern is, I'd say this is a tactic that will have exactly 0.0% effect on the election.

[Meshuga]

5. I don't think their tactic will have any effect on the election either

What concerns me is that they actually want Dean to win the nomination.

[Padraig18]

7. Try reading my post about what two Repuke pollsters think.

They're afraid that Dean will win.

[FrenchieCat]

30. But NewsMax is cheering Dean on....

and dogging Clark, as usual!

http://12.38.102.164/archives/ic/2003/11/14/101204.shtml

mmm....mmm....

[polpilot]

15. That's like Kerry supporters saying 'we want Dean'. They got him.

Dean '04...

[Norcom]

10. Thats one reason

I don't think the Bush = Hoover analogy that is often bandied about or the "worst since Hoover" sound bites are going to be effective in any way. How many people today even know there was a President Hoover?

[caledesi]

12. Disagree. Hoover was a president, McGovern just ran in a campaign.

My point is that presidents have been studied in history classes and know who Hoover was at least.

[sabbat hunter]

20. george herber "hoover" walker bush

was the nickname used by many democrats in 1992 against bush I. perhaps they will use something similar against shrubby this time around too.
you would be surprised to know how many people will know who hoover was when the time comes. and to compare shrub to him would be perfect.

and although mcgovern lost big time in 1972, look back at his platform and see that many of his ideas eventually got implemented.

peace
david

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w4rma]

16. Zogby: Dean’s appeal seems to miss those under 30 years of age … 4%

Released: November 06, 2003
Dean Expands National Lead of Democratic Presidential Hopefuls; Clark Slips; One in Three Voters Still Unsure, According to New Zogby International Poll

Former Vermont Governor Dr. Howard Dean has expanded his lead over the field of Democratic presidential hopefuls, moving away from a late September tie with retired General Wesley Clark. Dean now receives 15% from 558 likely Democratic primary voters nationwide, and Clark has slipped slightly to 10%.
…
Dean’s appeal seems to miss those under 30 years of age, who give 16% each to Sharpton and Clark, compared to Dean and Edwards at 4% each. Those ages 30-49 like Dean best (16%), with Kerry and Lieberman tied at 11%.

Likely Democratic primary voters ages 50-64 favor Dean (18%), Gephardt (12%) and Clark (11%), while Seniors (ages 65+) are divided in their support of Clark and Dean at 14% each, followed by Gephardt and Lieberman at 12%.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=755
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=80345

[RobertSeattle]

6. If Dean = McGovern then Bush = Nixon

OK, I see...

[Egnever]

8. What makes you think republicans did this?

Anyone can send in a grafic to Cafepress and get a page with any grafic they want.

I can think of a few posters here who based on thier posts to date would pull just this sort of crap just to post it and say see the republicans agree with me!

But hey I am ready to make my decision on who I will support based on a tshirt.

Boosh in 04 baby!

http://www.cafeshops.com/busharmy

Get real!

Whats next? The guy holding a sign begging beer money told me bush would win in 04?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Egnever]

14. Great News!

There are a couple of candidates in this race that are willing to actually call bush out for the slimeball he is. The rest seem willing to ignore all of the trashing of our country this man is doing.

I couldnt be hapier that republicans are willing to expose themselves to
one of the few that will actually take bush to task for all of the abuses of office he has perpetuated in the background while waving 9-11 in the publics faces.

As it stands now the people I see willing to do it are Dean Kucinich Sharpton and possibly Clark ( I have yet too see him stand out enough to really tell}

If they want to help get anyone of these guys get onstage against bush I am all for it!

I happen to think bush is hovering right on the edge of becoming the most hated president ever. AS more and more of his escapades are brought to light he will go nowhere but down. People i speak to daily here in nevada republican or democrat are all worried about his handling of the country in one form or another.

A lot of the Republicans I talk to are still with him on the war thing but thats about it, and even then they are not sure.

This guiy is coming down hard in 2004!

I dont think it matters who we stand up against him as long as they fight and hammer him over and over on the long list of nefarious shit he is involved in.

Dean has shown he is willing to take him to the woodshed and thats why he will win if he goes against bush. The only reason bush has any suport whatsoever outside the radical right wingers is because the truth on him is hidden from the general public. Give us a guy with the bullhorn willing to use it and we win in a landslide.

[killbotfactory]

18. Yep. No one will vote for a man who practiced common sense

and wouldn't have gotten us into a multi-million dollar boondogle with no end in sight.

The American people love pointless, bloody, expensive, and endless wars. Especially when they are misled into initially supporting them.

That's republican strategery for you.

[Meshuga]

19. Sad thing is that most voters...

pick a candidate based on vague ideas.

Dean's temper, the fact that he wants to raise taxes on the middle class, lack of national defense experience (Dean's Meet the Press fiasco will come back to haunt him later) among other vague ideas are going against him against Bush.

[w4rma]

21. Middle class received no benefit from Bush tax cut

…
I stood up against all the president's tax cuts. And I find it somewhat surprising that some folks are supporting some of the Bush tax cuts. They are a mistake. The middle class never got a tax cut for us to defend. Their college tuition went up. Their property taxes went up. Fire and police and first response services are going down and local people are having to pay for that. We ought to get rid of the entire Bush tax cut. It is bad for the economy and it has not created one job.
…
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Tax_Reform.htm

[robcon]

35. There was a big lower/middle class tax cut in 2001

The lowest tax bracket, under $12,000 taxable income, was reduced from 15% to 10%.

This was a 33% decline in taxes for the lowest-earning Americans, and $300 minimum reduction for all other taxpayers.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Let's have a conversation about "Dean's temper."

When has it been on display, other than privately.



A video link would be good. Same for audio. A newspaper account of Dean losing it in public could work for me. A poster claiming that Dean has a "temper problem" doesn't do shit for me.

[Meshuga]

37. Here is a link...

Sorry for not including a link earlier. Try this one to see what I am talking about:

http://www.gop.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/TLvideo2.htm

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

38. LMFAO.

He really blew his lid talking to his supporters. The veins in his forehead pop out when he says, "Thank you very, very much. Thank you very, very much."

Whenever I'm furious, the term "thank you" always comes to mind. You've got nothing and you know it.

It's also funny how most of the other candidates have a "temper" problem, too. According to your secret source, that is.

[Meshuga]

39. The point is not me having something on Dean.

My "secret source" happens to be the GOP web site and that's the kind of feces they are going to smear all over America.

[genius]

22. And once again they are about to pick our candidate

The fact that we may let them says a lot about the survival of the Democratic Party.

[MercutioATC]

23. Oh, horseshit. WE are going to pick our candidate.

Do you vaguely remember how the Freepers were going to turn out en masse to make Sharpton win the MoveOn Primary? Seems they fell a little short.

It not not be your first-chioce candidate. It might not be mine. However, rest assured that WE will be making the decision.

[AP]

24. It's not the Freepers who will pick Dem nom. It's CNNFOXGEVIACOMDISNEY

NYTWPNPR who will pick a nominee whom Bush has best chance against.

[MercutioATC]

25. They'll have an influence, but WE choose.

Remember, the media is like a shark...it will head for the largest concentration of blood in the water. It's in our best interest to keep showing it where the Republicans are bleeding.

[AP]

26. There is so much money at stake, the media will be doing all it can

to get Bush elected.

[MercutioATC]

28. Then why are they reporting:

The deaths in Iraq, Pvt. Lynch's REAL story, the use of the Patriot Act in all sorts of arrests having nothing to do with terrorism, pictures of Iraqi kids cheering burning U.S. trucks, etc.?

The media is not Halliburton. Keeping quiet about provocative stories doesn't do them any financial good. We've been outmanouvered in the past by the Republicans, not ignored by the press. We have the ability to win the information war. We just have to keep pushing the truth.

[AP]

29. I'd like you to figure this out on your own.

But it might be too late before you realize what's going on.

First of all, all iraq all the time is good for Republicans in the sense that it makes people think that the economy doesn't matter and that the most important thing is Iraq.

Also, you're crazy to think that they're going to report on it like they're reporting on it now next fall. They're bringing us down now to bring us up later.

The same thing happened with Vietnam. Nixon won in 72 because he played Vietnam well. At the Watergate hearings, evidence revealed that Nixon wanted people to protest him because it drove moderates to the Republicans (the law and order party). I think the bad news now is designed to encourage protests, and to encourage the nomination of an anti-war Democrat. I think Bush will do something like Nixon did when he said he'd revoke the draft and he pretended he had a secret plan to end the war.

McGovern didnt' lose just because he focussed on the war. He lost because he focussed on the war, which was in the complete control of the Republican party, and the Repubs pulled that carpet out from under his feet at the last minute.

So remember, Iraq is nowhere near as bad as Vietnam yet. However, Vietnam resulted in two Republicans victories, and, if not for Watergate, probably would have led to a third victory for Republicans, even though they had messed it up.

National security and law and order are the Republicans forte. They aren't stupid, and the media isn't on the Democrats' side. So wise up.

By the way, when four very large companies have a mutual monopoly and don't have to worry about competition from new small TV stations, they don't give a fuck about ratings. Whatever they put on the air will get watched. Remember when CBS was afraid of going out of business about 10 years ago? Those days are over. These companies are all entrenched and have nothing to worry about except for the deregulation the Republicans have promised them more of and which Democrats are too scared to deny them).

[MercutioATC]

31. Sorry, I don't agree....and here's why:

I'm an air traffic controller. For some bizarre reason, about 20% of ATCs seem to be Republicans. Another 40% or so seem to be apolitical.

I wear a "Dean For America" button on my headset at work. I've had a dozen or so people come up to me to talk about politics because of the button. Over the past two or three months, I've seen people go from "Who's Dean?" to "Yeah, I saw how Bush lied about all this stuff and the Democrats are calling him on it.". I really believe that most people (except the very wealthy) who vote Republican do so because nobody's shown them why they shouldn't. Frankly, this isn't an issue for the media; it's an isue for all Democrats. We need to educate people.

It seems to me that people are beginning to be receptive to other views. Part of this is because they have family or friends who are in Iraq. Part of it is because of the possibility that they will be drafted at some point. Part of it is the huge waste of taxpayer money that this administration has facilitated.

I DO think that the media will follow the money. I also think that they're bright enough to see where the money really comes from. Frenkly, I feel that if we are able to get a unified message to the people, they'll listen.

[AP]

32. I'm sure there were ATCs during the Nixon administration who did the same

thing -- "who's this McGovern? I'd like to know more. Did you hear about the Pentagon Papers? This trial should be the end of Nixon."

Nixon still would have won if not for Watergate, I bet.

It's the same damn strategy. It's not designed to win over ATCs. It's designed to scare the entire middle into voting Republican and to turn the strength of the Democratic Party into its weakness.

[MercutioATC]

33. I hear what you're saying, but it seems to me that there's been a lot of

negative press for the Republicans in the past two or three months. I think it's going to continue (and increase).

[AP]

34. I think that's wishful thinking. In the midst of all the negative Bush...

...press, there was Arnold. Did you watch the Arnold coverage?

That was such a HUGE media assist. Now, why would CNN et al be working so hard to get Arnold elected in CA (which will only help Bush) if the negative Bush press were designed to hurt him?

It's not designed to hurt Bush. The negative press now is designed to help Democrats nominate and anti-war candidate, it's designed to encourage protests, and it's designed to help Bush in the long term.

[PassingFair]

40. Bravo, Mercutio:

I keep a Dean button on my purse/bag. The bag is red, the button, well you KNOW what colors it is. Gets the repubs attention.
Also, I have a picture of Dean, a friend of mine, and myself taken at a fund raiser that I use as a screen saver. At first, no one seemed to notice. Now I'm getting phone calls from people after they leave saying they REALLY liked my photo. Now, it's a flattering shot of me, but I don't think that's what they're talking about. People come up just to talk about him now and want to know why I'm supporting him. I can talk for as long as they're willing to listen. By the reaction I've seen, about 90% of the people in my office (70 or so) didn't know who he was at first. Now they all want to know what the $&^@^ I'm doing standing and smiling away with him.
Beautiful!

[genius]

36. TheREpublicans are selling him as the popular guy and some Democrats

are dumb enough to give up their values to vote for him. Who ever thought a Republican would win the Democratic nomination. 2004 may be a first on that one.