Kerry rips Dean claim in Iowa blitz

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Attempting to revitalize his presidential campaign, Sen. John Kerry lashed out at rival Howard Dean on Sunday for selling himself as a Washington outsider at a time when the nation cannot afford "on-the-job training" of its leader.

Kerry, who is trailing Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri and Dean in the most recent poll of Iowa voters, also blasted both men for seeking a complete repeal of President Bush's tax cuts. He said repealing tax-rate cuts for the middle class and reinstating higher taxes for married couples would hand the Republican president a ready-made re-election issue.


"What a wonderful message for Democrats, ladies and gentlemen," Kerry said. "Can't you imagine next summer the advertisements from (Bush political adviser) Karl Rove: `Here come the Democrats. You get married in America, they think you ought to pay a tax for being married.' Well, that's the impact. That's what happens when you get rid of the whole tax cut."

<snip>

"Well, remember how long it took everyone to get their feet under them--Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan," Kerry said. "We saw what even happened in the first two years of the Clinton administration--we lost the House in Congress."

Kerry said Bush, who was Texas governor before becoming president, was a "poster child" for what happens when the nation's chief executive lacks military, security and foreign policy experience.

"It is clear that after Sept. 11, that we do not need a president with on-the-job training on the issues of national security," he said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0311170085nov17,1,7819447.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

[wtmusic]

1. If Kerry wants to open that can of worms, let him

Budget surplus, jobs, a rocking economy...Clinton did nothing right, did he? :eyes:

[virtualobserver]

3. Kerry was trained to give Bush a blank check for war......

I guess. I'll take someone untrained then,I guess.

[LuminousX]

7. This is the effective counter-attack

If Kerry was so experienced, why did he trust Bush more than he trusted Byrd? Obviously 'experience' isn't the only important trait.

Still, if Kerry can get this to snowball a bit, point out Dean's campaigning gaffes as further evidence of his lack of experience in the national limelight, he may be able to nab some undecideds away from Dean. Unfortunately for Kerry, he didn't start this sooner. Dean supporters appear fiercely loyal. Once they've chosen Dean, they stay with Dean. (With exceptions of course)

[virtualobserver]

9. this attack may help Gephardt win Iowa

but the line in the Time article that stated that Kerry can no longer find Donors convinced me that he is toast.

[blm]

4. But, it was missteps by Clinton that did cause some problems

and Clinton would be the first to acknowledge it.

Kerry and Gore both warned Clinton back then to deal with a welfare reform bill BEFORE the health care overhaul because of the way the "process" works. If he had done it their way Dems likely would NOT have lost the congress and we may have universal healthcare today.

[paulk]

5. Clinton made a lot of mistakes at first

Kerry's right - Clinton's first 2 years were a disaster - we got our ass handed to us in the '94 election.

[LuminousX]

2. This is a good line of attack

and one I advocated Kerry taking for some time. I think it will have some traction so long as he doesn't sound like he is whining and doesn't attack other people (Clinton) in the process.

[el_gato]

6. i have not come out in support of anybody but Kerry is losing me

[SaveElmer]

11. He lost me a while ago

I can't forsee any circumstance where I will vote for him

[ima_sinnic]

8. goodbye John

he's even coming out and saying that he's giving Rove his talking points

some "Democrat"

may his pathetic campaign quickly burn itself out.

[Stuckinthebush]

10. Wow

Kerry is getting desperate now.

I have no beef with John and I'd happily vote for him if he got the nomination, but this is nuts.

Gods, give the Dems a reason to vote for you, John, not to vote against another Democrat. Give a message of hope and get the base fired up. It is hard to fire up the base when you beat down one of your Democratic opponents for the Republicans.

This is sad.

[Rose Siding]

12. "Be very afraid"

Not a hopeful mssg. The repubs from Ashcroft to Ridge et al use it and I don't buy it from them either.

The only thing he'll scare anyone into doing is not voting at all. Fear paralizes.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

13. Kerry's dead on right as per usual

And it's nice to have a Democrat who was on the front lines of the Reagan wars dealing with this bullshit now.
What the 'Dean can perform the same magic as Clinton' defenders have to admit is that you can balance the budget without doing it on the backs of the middle class.
Again, Kerry shows his superior perspective on the issues as a life-long liberal Democrat.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. I really think it shows his desperation

I think the whole/part tax cut elimination debate is a small issue overall.

I think the bigger issue here is that a statesman like Kerry has resorted to attacking Dean as his strategy. That will get him nowhere. Others have tried it and it just strengthens Dean's base. Kerry is politically smarter than this. He needs to present himself and forget Dean. He is a powerful speaker and he can be very persuasive. Once he takes the position of Dean attacker, then that is all he will be seen as. It also poisons the well for after the nominations. If Kerry does win, he will need Dean and his supporters to help him win the presidency. If Dean wins, then Kerry will have a hard time campaigning for him after such nasty attacks.

It's not smart.

[paulk]

30. The tax cut issue IS a big thing

Both Gephardt and Dean, should either win the nomination, will be pounded relentlessly by the Republicans as "tax raisers".

Politically, it is foolish - FOOLISH - for them to take this position.
Even if they're right, why hand the Republicans such a big stick?

[Hawkeye-X]

23. *snore*

NYFM -- you are really a rabid Kerry supporter?

I think you need to have your head examined..

Supporting Kerry is like supporting a weak Dem - all talk and no action. Dean has provided evidence of his own action, which he backed - sure, kerry did too -- by giving * a blank check for the Iraq quagmire.. Do you agree with Kerry's decision?

Hawkeye-X

[Demobrat]

15. So what's his message? Elect me because

the office I hold is better training for president than the office Dean held? OK, John.

[Larkspur]

16. Earth to Kerry: You don't have Presidential experience either

None of the candidates do, but Howard Dean has experience in an executive office -- Governor and you don't.

And as far as your foreign policy experience, well, sir, you screwed up both of your Iraq War votes -- 1991 and 2002 -- so it shows that foreign policy experience is not your strength either.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Dean governed a state that is smaller that most major cities.

I suppose you could say the manager of a McDonalds restaurant has managerial experience -- perhaps he's ready to head the company.

[wtmusic]

18. LOL so did Clinton

[paulk]

19. But, that's the point Kerry is making, isn't it?

That it took Clinton, the governor of a small state, with no foreign policy experience, too long to get up to speed and this cost the Democrats the Congress in 1994?

Check our Clinton's approval ratings - he was polling at 46% in 1994, with only 33% saying that the country was going in the right direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/01/16/poll.clinton/

Clinton's inexperience early in his tenure hurt the Democratic party.

[sandnsea]

25. LOL we weren't at war

LOL we didn't just have a Democratic President who had been a governor who is going to be blamed for 9/11. LOL Clinton didn't promise to raise everybody's taxes. LOL Clinton didn't call terrorists soldiers. LOL Clinton didn't offend half the black vote nationwide and almost all the white Southern vote. LOL

[NewYorkerfromMass]

38. Ark. is more than 4 times the size of Vt.

in population, and 5 times in area, and a hell of a lot poorer by any measure.

Arkansas vs. Vermont

[Zynx]

40. Southern Governors have very little power.

A Southern Governorship is not much experience for anything.

[Hawkeye-X]

24. Still, the experience is there -- and it is KEY

If Dean can successfully manage Vermont for 12 years, I think that Dean can manage United States of America for the first four years, and fixing what ails America.

REGARDLESS of how friggin' small Vermont vs, oh say, LA or NYC, you have to remember that Dean DOES have experience working with legislature (Republicans and Democrats combined). Does Kerry have any experience? Edwards? Gephardt? Clark? Lieberman? Braun? Sharpton? Answer is no.. The only lone exception is Kucinich which I may grant him having SOME experience dealing with the city council, but he didn't have the power to veto any resolution as a mayor of Cleveland. Dean is the only candidate with experience working with legislature, while being an executive of Vermont.

Hawkeye-X

[sandnsea]

26. No experience working with legislatures???

Republicans and Democrats combined? What do you think these Senators and Congressmen do everyday?

And let's not forget what Howard did when working with his Vermont legislature. Marginalized the far left progressives and compromised with the rest. He is exactly what he rails against. A RINO pink tutu.

[Hawkeye-X]

29. All they do is debate and vote

And usually in the wrong order..

They also don't listen to the constitutents of their own state either.

Recall many Senator/Rep's offices getting hammered with phone calls, faxes, emails asking NOT to vote for the IWR, but they did it anyway.

Hawkeye-X

[sandnsea]

34. Totally clueless

They have to work with all of these legislators to get the bills put together in the first place. Then they have to work to get the support to get them onto the floor, then work to get them passed. They don't just debate and vote.

And you may think they didn't listen to their constituents because they didn't listen to YOU. Maybe there were more people calling on them to support that vote, did you ever think of that???

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. "And usually in the wrong order..."

Right on the money. Take the PA and IWR. Perfect example. Vote and then question. Oy!

[dsc]

46. mayors can veto

though it bears pointing out that there are no Republicans on Cleveland city council and haven't been for quite some time.

[paulk]

27. Kerry makes a solid point, here.

Our last four presidents who came to the office after serving as governor all stumbled badly out of the gate. Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and GW Bush all had problems dealing with Congress that hurt them early in their terms.

Kerry's point is that, with the world situation as dangerous as it is , we can't afford to elect someone not familiar with Congress and lacking in foreign policy experience. That's what we did with Bush, and look what we got.

You think Kerry screwed up his 1991 vote, also? Why was it acceptable to go to war then and not now?

[Larkspur]

37. Yes, the 1991 Gulf War was valid because Saddam was the aggressor

and our allies begged us for our help.

In 2002-03, our allies begged us not to invade Iraq, but Kerry voted for war in 2002. What they hell is that kind of logic? Not the kind I want in the White House.

[paulk]

41. Kuwait was, if anything, an ally of convenience

They certainly were not a friend of ours prior to Iraq'a invasion. The Persian Gulf Resolution barely passed - with opposition coming mainly from Democrats. There seems to be a lot of recidivist history going on these days, with everyone backing the first war, when, at the time, there was HUGE opposition to it.

I don't understand why Howard Dean backed the first gulf war and not the second. If he was the anti-war candidate he says he is, wouldn't he have also been opposed to the first war?

[Larkspur]

49. Dean never said that he was anti-war. He was anti-2003_Iraq War

He never said that he was a pacifist. The President of the United States has to be prepared to send troops into battle when the situation requires it. Dean believes that our military might must be used morally, not for increasing the profits of corporate donors. Moral uses of military force are when there is a humanitarian crisis, like there is in Liberia, and when American citizens and interests of the commonwealth are threatened.

[paulk]

50. OK, we've cleared that up, then

Howard Dean is not the "anti-war" candidate.

He supported the first Gulf War.

Millions of Americans opposed that war. The Persian Gulf Resolution barely passed by four votes - with only a handful of Democrats crossing the aisle to vote in favor of it. Apparently, Howard Dean would have been among that handful.

[loyalsister]

44. I almost see your point

but the congressional Dems are partners in crime to some of the worst legislation we have seen come out of this WH. NCLB and the one that produced one of the largest problems -literally in the WORLD today - the Iraq war.

[paulk]

51. some are; some aren't

I think Gephardt and Lieberman were "partners in crime"; I don't put Edwards and Kerry in that catagory.

When you're in the minority, you take what you can get - you compromise, you make deals - that's how Congress works! That's how politics works! You get the best deal you can with the hand you have, or you stand on principal and get nothing at all.

I understand why so many are upset with Kerry's vote on the IWR - but he got the best deal he could - with a losing hand. He forced Bush to go to the UN - he forced Bush to deal with only Iraq, rather than Syria and Iran. He put Bush on record as the lying, cheating POS he is.

One of the fundamental tenets of the IWR states that Bush could attack Iraq if they were a threat to our national security. Hence the WMD lies. Hence the whole steaming pile of Bush mendacity that has since been exposed.

Don't blame Edwards and Kerry for Bush's misdeeds.

Blame Bush.

[Pez]

20. dean rips gephardt/all democrats: yaaaay! kerry rips dean: boooo!

meow meow meow.

[LuminousX]

21. Cheers

It's called cheering on your candidate.

[killbotfactory]

22. Kerry to disband cabinet, run white house all by his lonesome

John Kerry: SUPER PRESIDENT

[sandnsea]

28. Exactly

Super President. Simply because he knows more about international relations, who gets what done where, what different countries interests are, and how to get these countries on board to change the direction we're headed. Immediately, without having to depend on getting the right group of cabinet members to tell him what to do. Somebody who can't do that isn't going to have a chance to beat Bush.

[killbotfactory]

31. Yes, because Bush has been such a success so far

No one could possibly challenge him on foeign policy. Except...

JOHN KERRY: SUPER PRESIDENT!

[sandnsea]

35. Certainly not..

Howard Dean... Goober President

[Hawkeye-X]

32. And he hasn't apologized for the IWR vote

despite his constitutents ASKING him not to vote for it...

Yeah. Super President.

More like Stupid Senator.

:eyes:

Hawkeye-X

[killbotfactory]

33. Apology? you don't need know stinking apology!

Kerry is the expert, NOT YOU!

Kerry never makes mistakes!

John Kerry: SUPER PRESDIENT!

[sandnsea]

36. How do you know??

You don't know how many constituents called and asked him to vote for that resolution. Maybe he was doing exactly what his constituents asked him to do.

Congress authorizes military action, Presidents execute the deployment of troops. A Congressional vote does not mean the President HAS to use military action. After the inspectors got in and found nothing, Bush didn't HAVE to use military action. He chose to. Blame Bush. I thought that's what Deanie's are always in an uproar about, candidates attacking Dean instead of going after Bush.

[dsc]

47. Every story at the time

said the opposite and a write in candidate, his sole opponent, got over a tenth of the vote. Kerry's constituents, represented by many of his Congressional delegation including Ted Kennedy were against that bill.

[sandnsea]

48. They reelected him anyway???

They were all in such an uproar over him not respecting his constituents in casting this vote and they just went ahead and reelected him? 1,600,000 to 350,000???

Congress authorizes military action, Presidents make the final decision on when and how that action will actually be taken. Dean needs to attack Bush about his abuse of power in this war and his failure as Commander in Chief. It is all about Bush, right?

[Zynx]

39. John, Shut Up!

Bill Clinton, FDR, and a whole bunch of other presidents didn't have much foreign policy experience either and the "experts" JFK had got us into Vietnam.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

43. Just what exactly constitutes Kerry's FP experience?

Sitting on committees that review all our fuck-ups around the world?

The import placed on FP experience is a canard.

What is foreign policy? It's 50% looking out for your interests. And 50% diplomacy. The diplomacy is there so that you don't have to go to war all the time to maintain access to some mineral, some waterway or some market. If you have common sense, you have what it takes to administer foreign policy.

This tired old rubrick comes up every election. FDR was pretty good on FP and pretty good on common sense. Reagan was lousy on FP and lousy on common sense(if someone comes in here and says he won the Cold War, I'll smack 'em!). Treat other countries like you want to be treated, with respect, but don't take any shit. Whoopty-doo. Granted, an extensive knowledge of world and regional history is required. That's why you have advisors.


My two

Common Cents.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

45. Jeezum Crow- not only did Kerry serve with distinction in Vietnam

but he then came back and questioned the whole rationale behind it, and then many years later worked with the modern government of Vietnam along side of John McCain and others, to confirm all POWs and MIAs had been accounted for.
Never mind the investigation of BCCI, and spurring the Iran/Contra investigation before that.
But like I said.... Jeezum Crow.