Kucinich on Democratic Party

[AnAmerican]

"The Democratic Party doesn't have a compass. What does the party stand for? The only reason why people would want to vote Democratic is if there were real alternatives offered. What's the alternative being offered by some of the Democratic front-runners? President Bush would keep us in Iraq; many of the Democratic front-runners would keep us in Iraq. Bush would keep a privately run health care system; many of the Democratic front-runners would keep a privately run health care system. Bush would keep us in the World Trade Organization and the North American Free Trade Agreement and let the trade deficit grow, and many of the Democratic front-runners would do the same.

"I reject where the Democratic Party has gone. I think the Democratic Party has abandoned its roots. I think it has abandoned the cities. I think it has abandoned people of color. I think it has abandoned blue-collar workers, and it has abandoned the practical aspirations of people for peace. I'm ready to help redefine the party. Frankly, if we don't do that, there's no way this party is going to be able to defeat Bush."

From his website


Dennis keeps on telling it like it is. The man has integrity and the guts to speak the truth.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Go, Dennis, Go!

So glad he doesn't hide what he thinks.

[el_gato]

2. and I agree with him

[kalashnikov]

3. Kucinich summed up the reasons I dont support him

very well. I belive he has integrity but so does Pat Buchanan, doesnt mean they are correct.

[el_gato]

4. seems like you have a non-message

no content

[kalashnikov]

5. Kucinich supporters always complain about

how overlooked he is and if people would just listen to him they would be supporters too. But in reality the reason Kucinich is not getting any coverage is because he is on the fringe of the left-wing and proposes ideas that have no widespread support. If he were to set the message of the Democratic party then I gurantee that it would be the end of the Democratic party.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Not the end of the Democratic party

but a return to its roots. Grass roots.

[no name no slogan]

13. No "widespread support" for Universal health care?

Or for trimming bloat in the pentagon budget? Or for preserving American jobs, and tying human rights to trade policy?

You honestly can't tell me that there isn't widespread support for these ideas among "mainstream" Democrats, or even mainstream America.

Kucinich is the only candidate who wants this party to go back to its New Deal strengths and balance the power in this country between the corporate plutocrats and the average citizens.

Nobody else (except Sharpton) is even talking like this anymore. The closest they come is lip service.

Kucinich represents the party platform as it has existed for the last 30 years, if not longer. We, as a party, have demanded livable wages, universal healthcare, nuclear disarmament and an end to imperialism abroud since the 1960s. It's only the "Yuppie come lately" "New Democrats" and "fiscal conservatives" that have turned this party into Rockefeller Republicans.

[redqueen]

16. IMO

This is an example of how far right we have come these last 30 years.

Now progressive Dems are looked at as 'loony' and 'far-left'

Sad, sad, sad....

[cyclezealot]

29. He is the Democratic party.

He is inspirational.. Universal health care and jobs is what the Democratic party is about..If this is not its' core values, then I am a Green.
It is not that Kucinich is out of step, but that the corporations that manipulate the media also manipulate our minds. Knowingly or unknowlingly... It is so difficult to believe that the likes of Chris Matthews are our masters and we swallow his crap unthinkingly and respond to this form of mind control as if we were all puppets.
I predict the gullible American people will not get universal health care until the whole privately funded system unravels from the weight of its waste. But that will be sooner than we think.
If not are we that immoral a people that we live with these constraints,just so that Aetna and their ilk can ripe off our employers and deny us needed services.

[plurality]

33. No widespread support?

Let's see, universal health care...according to the Washington Post over 80% of Americans support it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50281-2003Oct19.html
Eight in 10 said that providing health insurance to all Americans was more important than holding down taxes. The survey also found that 6 in 10 would prefer a system that covers everyone over the present arrangement, in which nearly 44 million people lack insurance.

Against $87 billion for Iraq...57% oppose
"As you may know, President Bush requested that Congress authorize an additional $87 billion in government spending for Iraq and the war on terrorism. Do you think Congress should or should not vote to authorize this?"

Should Should
Not No
Opinion
% % %
10/10-12/03 41 57 2
9/8-10/03 46 51 3

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq2.htm

So, tell me, where is the proof that the overwhelming majority of people oppose Dennis' ideas?

[drfemoe]

6. He has a valid issue

Too bad he just wants to apply it to the democratic "front runners" (how many of them are front runners?)
.. how about pointing his finger at his brothers and sisters in the House and Senate?

Basically good message politicized, resulting in no more than "Campaign" rhetoric.

[Desertrose]

7. I think he is applying it to all the Dems

Dennis speaks his mind and his truth...I would imagine this applies to all the Dems who have moved away from the Dem ideals & values.

I really don't know how anyone who has a memory or studied history can call him fringe left(post #5). I remember when the republicans were where the dem centrists are now......and I'm not that old....


We really need Dennis...and as the campaign deepens I can see on how many levels this strong man is changing things.....thank you Cong. Kucinich!!

peace
DR

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. He has many colleagues in the Progressive Caucus

who do follow his ideals. They keep getting reelected, sometimes from districts that vote Republican otherwise, but the Dem establishment considers them "fringe."

[helleborient]

24. Some of those progressive colleagues are endorsing Dean! (n/t)

[no name no slogan]

27. He's not running for Speaker of the House, though...

If he were, he'd probably rail against them too. Hell, he already HAS for that matter.

He IS running for the presidential nomination, however, and therefore will attack his other opponents on the issues when necessary.

[Think Globally]

9. He summed up why I voted for Nader.

If he gets the nomination I could vote Democrat again.

[DemDogs]

10. Or, to put it otherwise, why you voted for Bush (n/t)

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Gotta keep fighting

for clean elections, regulated voting equipment, ranked voting, and proportional representation so we can nix this "spoiler" issue once and for all and get back to being a democratic republic.

[Padraig18]

15. Why don't you ask St. Ralph about how he busted the union at his paper.

That was certainly 'progressive'. :eyes:

[redqueen]

17. How about a link for that? n/t

[Padraig18]

18. Let me look in my history.

Not a problem, if you can wait a few minutes, though...

[Padraig18]

19. Here ya go!

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

"
Busted a union among his workers:

Ralph talks big about democracy and even unions. But when his own workers at one of his magazines, Multinational Monitor, got fed up with cruel working conditions and started agitating for a union of their own, Nader busted the union with all of the hardball techniques used by corporate owners across America. Workers at Public Citizen, another Nader group, also tried to form a union because of 60 to 80 hour work weeks, salaries that ranged from $13,000 down, and other difficult working conditions and were blocked by Nader, who remains unapologetic to this day.
Nader says "I don't think there is a role for unions in small nonprofit 'cause' organizations any more than ... within a monastery or within a union."

When ringleader Tim Shorrock filed the union recognition papers, Nader immediately transferred ownership in the Multinational Monitor to close friends who ran an organization ("Essential Information") that Nader had set up. When Shorrock showed up for work the next day, he had been fired, the locks were changed, and management called the police to charge him with theft (of his own work papers.) That charge was thrown out of court, but management fired the two supportive editors and sued the three of them for $1.2 million, agreeing to drop the intimidation suit only when they dropped their NLRB complaint. All of these action are straight from the hardball anti-union playbook, and Nader makes no apology.

According to Nader, "Public interest groups are like crusades…you can’t have work rules, or 9 to 5." Shorrock, with his "union ploy," became an "adversary" according to Nader. "Anything that is commercial, is unionizable," but small public interest organizations "would go broke in a month," Nader says, if they paid union wages, offered union benefits and operated according to standard work rules, such as the eight-hour day. Remember that Nader's well-funded organizations were amassing tons of extra money that Ralph has been playing the stock market with during all these events."

St. Ralph is not the great humanitarian and progressive you all seem to think he is...

[redqueen]

20. Thanks for the link, but...

please, don't "you all" me.

I never put him on a pedestal, and was upset with him over his rhetoric equating Dems to Repubs.

[Padraig18]

21. My apologies.

Please accept my apologies; I assumed you were a supporter. Mea culpa.

[redqueen]

22. No problem. :-)

Actually I've heard similar things in the past, but just wanted to have the reference handy.

I'm a solid Democrat. At least until Kucinich goes Green.



KIDDING! :D

[Padraig18]

25. Cool!

:thumbsup: :)

[JohnKleeb]

23. neither was I

I may have green like politics but I am a democrat first and a Kucinich supporter second, in fact I campaigned for Gore in school, I know that mock election may not have mattered but I was all for Gore. I still like the guy a lot and hold him in high regards.

[hippywife]

32. Re-register now

so you can vote for him in the primaries and help give him the nod. I was independent and I did it for Dennis!! :)

[Forkboy]

11. The most truthful candidate

and sadly,many call him unelectable because of it.

[genius]

26. Dennis is the clearest contrast to Bush

I hope the Democrats have the wisdom to vote for him. There are a couple of candidates I wish I had voted for in the past and so I know how those who vote for the wrong guy will feel later. In 1998, I made the mistake of voting for the guy who would easily beat the Republican in the Governor's race rather than the better candidate. California wouldn't have a deficit and Arnold wouldn't be governor if I and other Democrats had been more careful how we voted.

[NNadir]

28. Well Dennis, I reject the Green party.

I have never confused Dennis Kucinich with a Democrat. Democrats have a real shot at practical governance. Kucinich wouldn't know practical governance if it bit him in the posterior. He's introduced no passable bills and made a mess of his sad attempts at administration.

Kucinich just has his head up his ass, lots of specious crank stuff, a plaguerized Green party platform, and the Green Party 2%.

In my opinion the Democrats have never had a shot at the petulant Green crowd, with or without Kucinich. We'll have to win without them.

See you on the Nader ticket, Denny.

[cyclezealot]

30. Kucinich will stick with the Democrats.

because of his following in the House Caucus..In fact it would be a waste to be a part of some sell out Democrat Administration..He has more influence debating in the house and speaking out to the general public. To muzzle his intellect as some Cabinet administrator would be a shameful waste of his influence.
As to Cleveland's mayor... You are wrong.. The city's foreclosure was mandated as punishment for refusing to sell out. My accolades to him...Few pols would have that kind of personal makeup. that kind of personal integrity.
I have no doubt Clevelanders would not elect him overwhealmingly.. For all that his district is mostly in Cleveland..Think they would elect him with 75% percent of the vote if they did not respect his saving Cleveland Municipal Light and other city landmarks,institutions.Just ask the present Mayor of Cleveland. Her praise of Dennis is effusive.I say your opinions need to be updated.

[AnAmerican]

31. Just goes to show.....

That any good political debate can result in childish name calling and accusatory commentary with no real basis in fact. Thank you for reminding us all that we have such a long way to go yet.

/sarcasm on

Thank you for your thoughtfulness and your reasoned comments.

/sarcasm off

[goodhue]

34. Kucinich will never run a Green

http://www.kucinich.us/faq.htm

Why aren't you running as a Green Party candidate? Will the Greens support you?

While I support much of the Green Party program, I am a Democrat. I am in the party to which millions of working people, minorities, environmentalists and people who want a just America owe their loyalty. I want to build a Democratic Party that deserves the loyalty of these groups. I am running not just to promote important ideas, but to use the progressive agenda to defeat George Bush for President in November 2004. Many Greens and Nader 2000 voters are supporting my candidacy and Ralph has praised our campaign. We are gaining support from new voters, disgruntled voters, and other "3rd-party" voters. Although I'm a Democrat, I firmly support the rights of parties other than the Democrats and Republicans to freely organize, have ballot access and take part in debates. I support Instant Runoff Voting and other election reforms that will open up our democracy to other parties and groups. I welcome the support of Greens while respecting their right to protect their party's interests and integrity. Still, I think it's critical we defeat Bush and his right-wing agenda in 2004, and the Democratic Party is the vehicle for that.

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Dennis will not run as a Green, but

I like his platform and I love that he acknowledges the right of multiple parties to exist and be functional in the government.

I would say that there would be a strong chance that Dennis would have a rainbow colored cabinet, politically speaking; that he would tap Dems, Greens, Socialists, Independents etc for his advisers.

I honestly believe that Dennis evaluates people according to their beliefs and actions, not their party label.

[no name no slogan]

36. Blather, rinse, repeat

Seriously, are you intentionally speaking like a broken record? Because you have repeated the "Kucinich is going Green" meme on damn near every DK thread I've seen here. And once again, you don't present any evidence to support your blather, either.

Kucinich has a long history in the Democratic Party, even longer than your candidate, I might add.

While Howard was out protecting the ski slopes of Vail from the wily Viet Cong, Dennis Kucinich was getting elected to the Cleveland City Council. While Dean was a stockbroker on Wall Street, DK was out working for people on Main Street.

If anything, I'd be more worried about keeping "your people" in the party than whether or not Dennis Kucinich will run as a Green.

[Desertrose]

37. thank you n n n s

you saved me the trouble of replying to that pointless post with nothing more than NNadirs predicitable bs.

Peace
DR

[NNadir]

38. I repeat the meme because, well it's true.

We hear lots of blather about how Kucinich is going to change the world, and lots of excuses about why he has failed to galvanize anyone but the faithful, but not one real accomplishment. He has not moved past low single digits in any poll. No one takes him seriously except of course his core (and fanatical) group of supporters, the numbers of whom seem not to change very much. The create threads with great energy with grand pronouncements about how Kucinich is the only "logical" candidate (usually because he can pick up the Green 2%), petulantly and sullenly attack Dean for being - gasp! - in the lead. As "progressives" despise anyone who actually has a shot at winning anything, I find "progressives" rather annoying.

As I see it, Kucinich is approaching a goal - leaving aside his other goal of getting laid - that now is very Naderian: To attack the real Democrats, as the typically obtuse and negative quote above shows. Indeed this thread was created apparently with the purpose of disparaging the Democratic Party. I strongly suspect that few of the Kucinich supporters will support the ultimate nominee. They will go to Nader or some other hopeless fool, no matter what Dennis himself does.

I guess I'm speaking like a Broken Record, because, well, I'm responding to (hopelessly) broken records. I know of course that it's fruitless. Most DK posts show a very poor connection with the real world, real problems and real solutions. Still, I've made a vow not to attack the serious Democratic candidates (unless you take Lieberman seriously), and so I choose to take on the silliest Green clone.

One of the reasons I despise Bush is that I despise ideologues who aspire to run the world from positions undisturbed by facts. Such persons, unfortunately exist on both the left and the right. Indeed some of them are nowhere: Nader (though its really hard to discern where he is on the political spectrum, given his palling around with Buchanan and his kisses for Censorned News Nightly) is such a person. So are many Kooksinich folks.

We've been through lots of posts here, by the way, on the subject of what a creep I am for riding Denny. That's fine. I am in fact a creep. I suppose noting how creepy I am diverts attention that no one ever answers one of my favorite questions: Has Dennis ever introduced a bill in Congress that has passed and has changed lives anywhere for the better? Except for the dubious "victory" of bankrupting Cleveland to save Muni Power, and thus (arguably) saving a few bucks on the electric bill, what political accomplishments does he have?

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cyclezealot]

40. A Democrat I think might run green

One of the most amazing Congressional members I have ever experienced..Often very misquoted and targeted for her honesty- but that candidate is former Rep. Cynthia McKinney..She shows up at many anti globalization rallies, anti war events and Green activites..
She is relentless in her issues.. After how she was dishonestly railroaded I do not blame her. Of course it was Republican votes in A Democratic primary that did her in...I just suspect she might bolt.I think the Greens would give her the nomination should Nader not take it...If the Democratic candidate not fight for my core issues of health care, Nafta and the Iraq- I must admit I would have a dilema.
I for one agree with DK..Where I always want to be a Democrat, if they sell out to those that finance campaigns not sure what their worth is.?
I think the Democratic party would be energized if we had proportional representation or IRV which would give the Congress 8-15 Green members and the Democrats had to deal with them in coalition to get legislation passed instead of just compromising with the rapid right. This is not just being a Democrat but a democrat...