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Is "My candidate for Pres=Your candidate for VP" an insult?

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:18 PM
Original message
Is "My candidate for Pres=Your candidate for VP" an insult?
I frequently see posts in which one posteur will praise the candidate they favor, only to recieve what might be perceived as either patronizing or a disguised insult in response.

For example, someone pointing out that John Kerry is a real war hero, only to have some Clarkie post a response like "Hmmm, a Clark-Kerry ticket would rock, dude."

Or a Clarkie will sigh over what a big new one Clark ripped into Bush on his last TV appearance, only to have a Deaniac say, "Yes, a Dean-Clark ticket in 04 would scare the molars out of the RNC."

I wonder how the supporters of the "vice-presidentialized" candidates feel about this. I know the person who says "My candidate for President and your candidate for Veepers" will claim they only meant this as a compliment to the integrity and voter base strength of the guy in the second seat.

But when you see your dude or chick offered a subservient role, how do you react? Do you see this as a left-handed admission of the other candidate's electoral weakness? Do you feel like the other poster is taking your candidate's supporters for granted, as in "Oh, we'll just give Dean the understudy's job and expect his voters to just fall in line"?

* So Deanies, tell me how you feel about an "X-Dean" ticket suggestion.
* Clarkizoics, share with me your reactions to the "Y-Clark" nomination combo.
* Edwardsians, do you think your 51 year old candidate is being unfairly type-cast as a junior partner?
* Kerryons, are you flattered by the notion that JFK should settle for second fiddle?
* Do you Kucinichers take vox populi VP offers are legit or as a grudging nod of acceptance?

Lieberman supporters should feel free to chime in too.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Now the fact that we are quibbling over VeePs is a nice change
because it shows that we are now focusing on the important issues. Not which candidate is better, now were talking about the TICKET. That is where the focus is. Not ripping each others candidates.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's certainly unrealistic.
None of the candidates are running for Veep, I'm sure. And I don't think it is really all that common for the nominee to offer the Veep slot to an opponent. Reagan/Bush seems to be the exception, not the rule.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Kennedy / Johnson
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't consider it an insult when it is applied to Clark
Nor do I intend it as an insult when I suggest that any of the other candidates might make a good VP. For Gods sake, its the second highest office in the land, and a springboard to a future run.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Second highest office in the land? I'm sure that Dickhead Cheney
would like to disuade you of that opinion.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. LOL
Edited on Fri Nov-21-03 07:47 PM by Rowdyboy
Good one-score 1 for acmavm! :toast:
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. I consider it a compliment.
Obviously, the poster prefers his/her candidate for the top spot-- that's a given--- so to have Dr. Dean mentioned as the person they would like to have as VP is a compliment. :hi:
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Valueing someone enough to mention them as VP is not an insult
I think as mentioning my guy- Kucinich- as a cabinet member is a good thing.

My second choice is Edwards and I think that guy has VP written all over him.

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-03 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. I agree
Edited on Sat Nov-22-03 12:34 PM by GreenPartyVoter
that talking up candidates for multiple positions is a great thing.

And no, I personally am not affronted by the suggestion of an
"X and Kucinich" ticket. Dennis would be great in the White House, but he would also be super as the Veep.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. OK, it's just me, then. Thanks for the reality, check.
Sometimes I over think and over analyze. This must be one of those times. OK, I'm cool now, yall've convinced me.

I'll shut up now.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. No Insult
You need to talk about these things, and no hard feelings. In my openion Dean is the President with who ever after. I still have a soft spot in my heart for Bob Graham. Not knocking any else at all. You asked and I told the truth.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. In most cases it's a compliment.
To consider someone else for VP has to be an honor. I will think that Clark is better than Dean. But to say Dean for VP is a nice thing to say (I think). I think that between the Clark and Dean camps it has become a lighter point of comraderie.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. It depends.
On the tone. On the intent. It can be an insult or a compliment.

While I might consider the suggestion a compliment, I really don't want my candidate to be VP. If Dennis doesn't get the nomination, I'd like to see him as speaker of the house. So get out there and fill the house with dems!
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think it is always a compliment.
It is tantamount to saying: "This person is my second choice."

I really haven't made a second choice, though there are fine candidates in the field. I would like to point out that there are many fine Democrats who are NOT candidates.

The nominee will make a choice independent of what we think at DU. I think our best candidates are willing to choose one of their former competitors, but neither should they feel compelled to do so.

I remain a huge admirer of Al Gore, but I think he made a very bad mistake in picking his 2000 running mate. No one knew then who Lieberman was, but he proved to be a horrible drag on the campaign, running for both the Senate and the VP, flailing around with Cheney, giving credibility to the Clinton smear, being such a straight laced (and boring) moralist, and being well, Holy Joe Lieberman.

I just hope the next person to win the nomination will do better than the President-elected did.
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DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-03 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. Not an insult BUT
Edwards is not running for vice president, and as a candidate who is older than Clinton, older than JFK, older than five or six other previous presidents, it is pretty tiresome to keep hearing it. And it's not his age that makes people say it, it's that he looks young.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-03 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. It's not his age or youthful appearance, you know
He hasn't even served out his first term in elected office and is already running for president. It's entirely natural and quite acceptable for people to question whether or not he is experienced enough for the job. Most people I've heard talk about this think he'll eventually be president if he stays in politics. As I mentioned before, with the current state of our federal courts, I'd really like to see him be Attorney General. I think that's where his abilities would best serve the country at this point.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-03 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. OOOOH!! I like that idea!
Edwards as AG, shoot, I have goosebumps now! Actually, I think I'd almost rather see him take Ashcrofts spot, that would be even better!
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-03 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
15. I believe that Dean is overqualified for VP
Governors are executives...they lead and manage. They are better suited for the Presidency than the Vice Presidency. After serving about 12 years as executive I just don't see Dean as the VP. Clark and Edwards are tied for second on my list. What I'd really prefer would be a Dean presidency with Edwards as Attorney General and Clark heading up the military. These are two VERY important positions that need trustworthy, good people running those offices. I can't think of anyone better for either of those posts than Clark and Edwards. I think Graham would be a great VP if he stays healthy.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I consider it insulting.....My candidate said he was not running for VP
yet Dean has implied many times that Clark "who was a Republican until 25 days ago and flips/flopped on the war" would make a fine VP. That said, Dean needs Clark on a VP ticket far more than Clark needs Dean.

You said: Governors are executives...they lead and manage

I believe that governors of states who have no foreign policy experience and who are attempting to run against an wartime incumbent President who has the media behind him is a risk that I would rather not take.

Considering that there are 600,000+ people in Vermont, I am not impressed. Considering that his tax platform alone would lose him the election is no small feat to ignore.

We are in need of managing a world crisis....and experience governing Vermont doesn't quite do it. Not when this is probably the most important election in this Century.

Sorry, but no cigars. VP, well maybe..........Candidate Clark however, can find an accomplished legislator without having to put Dean on the Dem Ticket.....and that is just a plain fact.

when providing the reasons why Dean somehow is better on the top part of the ticket, please note that the Republican Convention is to be held on New York. The closing day of the convention is 9/11/04. That's the day the fake pResident will give the big hurrah speech. Remember that this is less than two months prior to the election. Historically, a convention tends to bumps up the positive percentage points of that party. We all know that the propaganda will be thick and heavy with Bush/Rove speak.
Here's the Bush Speech on that convention floor, if Dean gets the Dem
nomination:

The speech will go something like this:
(Imagine it with his bad tx southern accent)
We have been fighting this War on Terror three years exactly today. We continue to pray for those who perished on 9/11. We pray for their family and thank them for the lives of their brave sons and daughters. We pray for the firemen and policemen who's heroic efforts shall never be forgotten. We will never forget, and that's why we took the fight to the enemy. We are safer because the fight is going on over there instead of over here.

The Democrats want to be in charge on this War on Terror. Howard Dean, who has no foreign policy experience, and never saw military service, wants to take the baton from me. He said that he has as much experience as I did when I was first elected. After 9/11, is that who the American people want to take over the War on Terror?(Bush snickers with his imfamous smirk) Dean wanted Saddam to continue to torture and kill the Iraqi people. He didn't want us to uphold America's responsibility to the world. He thinks that Iraq was better off under the terroristic evil dictatorship called Saddam Hussein. You have seen the reports on the mass graves. Dean obviously didn't. Dean didn't want the terrorist to come to Iraq to fight. He wanted them to stay in America and kill innocent Americans again, just like they did on 9/11.

But more than that, Howard Dean also wants to raise your taxes. Yes, raise taxes on each and everyone of you. A Tax and Spend Democrat wants to do what they have always done; grow the government and waste your hard earned money.

Now I know that we have to win this war, to give what we promised to the Iraqis people. We have to give them freedom and democracy, that was our promise, and I intend to fulfill that promise. Today we have 100,000 Iraqis bringing security to Iraqis. We have to stay in there until the job is done, otherwise the Middle East will have only learned that our resolve means nothing. Howard Dean wants to cut and run. He wants to pander to the U.N. and make America look weak.
On the domestic front, do you want a President who has been making the tough decisions for the last 4 years or do you want Dean? The guy who comes from a state that has as many residence as this city of New York has people of Puerto Rican descent. 600,000 people folks. That's what he calls experience (Bush does his sinister snicker, the crowd laughs). I say to Howard Dean, Maybe if it was at least 1 million people that would give us some concern (another joke)! Does Vermont even have a National Guard?.(more laughter)...oh yea, I think there are six or seven guys over there protecting the borders from out of state attackers.(wild applauds).

(Bush gets serious and sober) I want to keep serving for the American people, for the brave folks that are serving in our military. Don't let them have died in Vain. Ms. Smith over there please stand up. Yes Ms. Smith lost her son in the war. She says that her son died for Democracy and Freedom. You are right Ms. Smith, your son died a hero to return humanity and dignity back to millions of Iraqi men, women and children (wild applause, Ms. Smith bows and sits down).

(Bush sobers off after beaming smiles and nodding his head to thank the crowd for their applause)The evildoers are on the run. We've got them where we want them. If we stop now, if we lose our resolve, who knows what will happen. Next, Iran will be developing Nukes and threatening us. So a vote for Howard Dean will not make us more secure, at home or abroad. (Bush squints and slowly says)Howard Dean doesn't know how to keep America safe, he'll have to learn. After 9/11, America can't afford a President that has to go to training classes.

Under my leadership, we haven't had another attack here in the U.S., and that says a lot about the great team that I assembled. We will win the War on terror for the sake of those innocent lives taken on 9/11 and for the sake of our children. We will win the war on terror for the sake of Freedom and Democracy. We will win the election because only we can make you safe.

The economy is looking pretty good. I promised you that my tax cuts really would work. We have a ways to go, but we will get there. Howard Dean? Well he wants to raise the taxes of each and every hard working American. He wants the big wasteful bureaucracy to decide what to do with your money. Can we afford that in America? As patriots, we have all already sacrificed much too much. Look at Ms. Smith over there. Should she be asked to add injury to pain?
As real cowboys have said, don't change horses in the middle of the stream. Especially if the replacement horse is a donkey.(wild laughter and applause).

Well folks, we are in that stream now. A nice a steady course will get us across.

God Bless all of you and God Bless America.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Clark Would Be Pulled Down By Dean
Clark needs someone with solid legislative credentials, particulatly with a crap-load of domestic experience. Dean is an angry Governor of 600,000. What does he offer to someone of Clark's stature?
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