Dean on Foreign Policy, Sealed Records, Attack Ads, Re-reg and the South

[Rose Siding]

I'm not kidding. This is a very broad and candid interview write-up.

snip>
Dean refuted critics who say that running Vermont - half the size of New Hampshire - is not much practice for running the country.

"I think that's just silly. It doesn't matter how big it is, the issues are the same," Dean said.

"Foreign policy and defense, that's the only one (issue) I haven't faced."

Dean said foreign policy requires patience and judgment, but all of his major Democratic opponents failed to use it by supporting a resolution last fall to go to war in Iraq.

"If I came around to concluding it made no sense to go to war in Iraq and all my major opponents thought it did, it seems to me theirs is not the kind of strong foreign policy that you want in the White House," Dean said.

Foreign policy decisions will be made with the same dynamic that Dean said he employed in coming to a decision about war in Iraq.

Dean said this followed private monthly meetings at a Washington townhouse with an eclectic group of advisers that included some unnamed Bush administration officials.

"I get as many experts in a room with hopefully as many opinions as possible and let them fight about it and present me the evidence," Dean said.

"Then I get to ask the toughest questions I can possibly think of and see which argument stands up best. It is always what I have done as governor to make tough decisions. It's what I will do in foreign policy."

http://www.nhprimary.com/stories/11-2003/112203-dean.htm

[chimpymustgo]

1. OMG! He sounds like Bush 2000 on foreign policy. No thank you!

"I get as many experts in a room with hopefully as many opinions as possible and let them fight about it and present me the evidence," Dean said.

"Then I get to ask the toughest questions I can possibly think of and see which argument stands up best. It is always what I have done as governor to make tough decisions. It's what I will do in foreign policy."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Right. Just like Bush.

Chimp's toughest question is "When do I get my juice?"


Gathering a group of experts, with differing opinions, to hash out an issue is obviously a bad idea! :eyes: The problem with Chimp is that all his advisors agree with each other, thereby giving him nothing to choose from.

[helleborient]

3. This is exactly how JFK pursued dealing with the Cuban Missile

Crisis.

The released audiotapes from the meetings prove this is the method he used.

Why is JFK's method that prevented possible nuclear holocaust a bad approach?

[Rose Siding]

4. That's what I thought!

I'm so glad someone else saw it. ALL the things we've learned about that Oct indicate that this is just how JFK worked.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. It's how any competent executive works.

To suggest otherwise is absurd. What is the alternative to this method? Having a meeting with yourself in front of a mirror?

[Sully]

9. Well, not really

I think the point here is that by his own admission, Dean has NO foreign policy or defense experience, and therfore must rely on his "advisors to be named later" to have an informed opinion. This is what we have now in Bush!

In John Kerry we would have a strong Commander in Chief, who is experienced enough to evaluate the input from advisors without being dependent on their views. This, is, in my opinion the definition of "Presidential", not all that image garbage.

[Rose Siding]

10. Kerry made an easy mark for Bush

in the Iraq "negotiations". What makes you think that he'd be more astute in dealing with foreign threats than he was with the threat bush poses to our nat'l security?

[Sully]

17. Did you forget about...

the fact that the neo-cons cooked the intelligence books and 70% of
Kerry's constituency supported IWR and a majority still do. Besides, Kerry is running on a 20+ year voting record that is consistently progressive. We need more than one issue to beat Bush and Co., and Kerry's got them all. Also don't forget that although Kerry's vote on IWR is a bone of contention in the primary, it's likely to be an asset in the general election:

"Despite these doubts, a majority, 57 percent, said the United States made the right decision in going to war against Iraq, down from 68 percent who felt that way in May."

(exerpted from Newsday poll article)

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uspoll14q3541960nov14,0,7405859,print.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-print

[dsc]

20. Do you have any sitation of any poll

which states that 70% Massachusetts citizens supported the war. Those were his constituents.

[Rose Siding]

22. Did you forget

that most Democrats in Congress saw through Bush's flimsy argument?

http://www.clw.org/control/iraqvote.html

And which of the other candidates have had a hefty test market (VT) for over a decade in which to prove and refine their policies?

*I don't see the 70% support for the IRW in your article. I do remember the support at that level before the invasion being contingent on support from the UN, which never materialized.

[sandnsea]

18. International Expert Opinion

Not George Bush. There wasn't an expert in the world who didn't think Saddam Hussein had weapons in September of 2002. Moving forward in dealing with Iraq was the right thing to do. Bush lying about what was being found in Iraq and going to war anyway was the wrong thing to do.

[Rose Siding]

23. Which int'l experts recommended

a full invasion just then? Perle? Wolfowitz?

"Moving forward" in the IRW meant offering suggestions and giving bush approval for whatever he ended up deciding to do.

[sandnsea]

36. We didn't invade in September 2002

Quit mixing up the vote and the war. They're two different issues with two different sets of facts available.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. FDR had no FP experience, either. Yet we somehow managed

to win WWII without it. This is a bullshit point that comes up every election cyle. I look for common sense instead. Not to mention that Kerry's experience gave us an "Aye" on the IWR. Not very reassuring.

[sandnsea]

19. Howard Dean was less reassuring

Saying he thought Saddam had WMD but supposedly being unwilling to do anything about it. And you think he can win an election on that?? Not likely.

[Rose Siding]

24. Can you cite where he was supposedly

"unwilling to do anything about it"?

[sandnsea]

37. Can you cite what he was going to do?

He says he was anti-war. The truth is said Saddam had WMD, the UN needed to put inspectors back in and if Saddam didn't comply with 30-60 days we should invade unilaterally. But he can't very well refer to that if he's planning on beating Bush by being anti-war. So since he can't say that, there's nothing you can cite to show he had a plan to do something.

[Rose Siding]

44. The inspectors were never kicked out!

They were there! There were inspectors in Iraq, doing the work they were there to do. We've since learned that they would have been even more effective if the US had shared intel- it could have been easily disputed, removing even more of the excuse for invasion.

[sandnsea]

47. There were no inspectors in October 2002

Man I'd just like to go around the country and thunk people on the head. I'm so sick and tired of people either not knowing what they're talking about or mixing up the facts to justify their support of Dean.

The inspectors were in Iraq because some Democrats were actually courageous enough to buck the liberal party line and go ahead with confronting Iraq's WMD. That's the ONLY reason inspectors were in Iraq. To talk about inspectors in conjunction with the vote on the war is just goofy.

Again, what was Howard going to do about Saddam having WMD? He said it himself.

[Skwmom]

46. Dean on Iraq when push came to shove

and he thought he might be damaged politically:

He (Dean) gets a deluge of phone calls from reporters asking him to clarify his position. Which is -- "as I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.

http://fordean.org/aa/issues/press_view.asp?ID=398

[sandnsea]

48. Can't debate this with Bush

I'm just trying to point out that against Bush, Howard's got nothing. Doing nothing about Saddam, or even containment, isn't going to fly. There's just too many reasons why containment couldn't continue indefinitely. He can't use the quote you just posted, because that would clearly mean he had lied about being anti-war. He's going to stand up there in a debate with his finger in his nose and not have an answer. It is so frustrating.

[MrPeepers]

21. Running a war isn't Foreign Policy.

FDR won WWII with the superior manpower, industy, and leadership within the US Military, not his own FP expertise. Answer me this. Had Kerry been President instead of Bush, would be be in Iraq right now?

Peepers

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Answer.

Had Kerry been President instead of Bush, would be be in Iraq right now?

I honestly don't know. I lean towards "no." But his previous statements on holding Iraq accountable(1998,2002) and his IWR vote make it unclear. Maybe we'd be in Iraq under UN auspices. :shrug:

[Sully]

29. Maybe so but

But we would have made MUCH more progress on the war on terror because Kerry doesn't have special interests in Saudi Arabia!

[JohnKleeb]

28. With all fairness to Dean

FDR was undersecretary of the Navy during WWI so he had some I dont think its that big of a deal but FDR did have some.

[sandnsea]

38. FDR, Undersecretary of the Navy

I'd forgotten that, but there you go. FDR did have experience. Dean went skiing when his contemporaries were either serving in the military or working to make this country a better place.

[JohnKleeb]

40. Yes

Oh and he wanted to serve, FDR that is, he asked Wilson but Wilson wouldnt let him go. I dont care that Dean didnt serve but I for one if I had a bad back wouldnt be skiing, nothin personal againt Dean, its just that would be the last thing I would be doing, I got a heart condition, and I guess the possible equiv of that would be me running in a marathon, heh thats the last thing I would do.

[sandnsea]

41. Those inspired by Kennedy took action

That's my real point there. Every other candidate did something for this country, living up to Kennedy's call to service. Dean went skiing. I don't care that he got out of Vietnam or even went skiing while supposedly too injured to serve. But that he did nothing says volumes about his character at a time when so many young people chose to really give back.

[JohnKleeb]

42. I see your point

No my point about the back is that, if I had a bad back I wouldnt be skiing then again I cry out in pain so easily, but with my condition which tells me I cant over exert myself, the equiv of skiing would be running in a marathon or doing cross country for track and field, and thats the last thing I would be doing. I told you via my PM what my candiate did.

[Andromeda]

50. Actually, he sounds more like Bill Clinton.

Clinton always like to get a lot of people with different views together in a room to discuss important issues. Clinton tempered his views with the views of others and always weighed the merits of the arguments.

Like Clinton, Dean is very smart and doesn't feel threatened by other people who know how to think and how to express themselves intelligently. He draws upon that like most educated and politically savvy people do.

You're mistaken about Bush. He never make his own decisions because he's not capable of it. He lets the others make the decisions for him and that's not what Dean does. Dean is the one that makes the decisions in the end. This just shows that he's willing to listen to divergent and analogous views before making his final decisions.

I admire that in a person because it is a sign of a good leader.

[Rose Siding]

6. Health care plan details, too

snip>
"Here's what I'll tell Congress. This is my plan. You don't have to adopt it as long as you cover everybody and come within budget. If you pass it, I'll sign it,'' Dean said.

A doctor by trade, Dean said Vermont let Blue Cross and Blue Shield run government health insurance for two years before the state took back control.

"The government will run a health care program cheaper than the insurance company," Dean said.

"That is just an indisputable fact and I know it as an opponent of single-payer."

Dean's proposal would expand existing federal programs to make everyone younger than 25 eligible for insurance and cover more middle-income families and those who are between jobs.

"I think the flexibility and plurality is a good thing,'' Dean said.

Experts conclude it would still leave about 10 million of the 41 million without insurance, but this is because they choose to go without coverage, he said.

Dean pointed to a little-noticed section of his plan to boast that it does cover all Americans.

"If you have no health insurance you will automatically be enrolled at tax time and be billed at 7.5 percent of your income for the congressional plan, but you can check a box that says, 'I do not want health insurance' and you're out," Dean said.

"It is universal, but you could not get to 100 percent."

[sandnsea]

39. Vermont's health care plan is a disaster

"So here’s the bottom line on the Dean era: Eleven years of dramatic expansion of government health care. The near-destruction of the individual and small group health insurance market. Creation of a true budget monster, heading for a projected $95 million deficit by 2008. And yes, a higher fraction of Vermonters without health insurance today than in 1992."

http://www.rutlandherald.com/hdean/56461

And his solution:

Increased co-pays, deductibles, premiums and less coverage. Isn't that what they just did with Medicare? These are low in Vermont now, but they aren't enough to cover the projected deficits and we see with Medicare that once you introduce this stuff it just keeps going up until the poor effectively have no health care.

http://www.vtmd.org/LEG&POL/leg-bull0215.html

[KaraokeKarlton]

49. So now you know more about my healthcare than I do?

Excuse me, but my family is on Vermont's state plan and it is NOT a disaster. It's just as good as employer plans I've been on and a hell of a lot cheaper to boot. You don't know anything about Vermont's Health Care Programs as you clearly demonstrate in your post. I am on the plan you're putting down and I'm telling you point blank that you are WRONG!

[sandnsea]

52. Did your sales tax go up?

Did you finally figure that out???

You may well have a health care plan, but if you don't want to talk about the budget deficits then you're not talking about all the issues. And if you don't want to talk about the fact that YOU have a plan at the expense of service cuts for the poorest people in Vermont, then you're not talking about all the issues.

A health care plan that's running deficits is not going to work next year. Our Democrats may not be making it an issue, but the Republicans absolutely will. Raise your taxes, like Vermont repeatedly has, and still run deficits. It's not going to sell.

It's really nice that you support your home-state guy, I wouldn't expect anything less, but he hasn't turned Vermont into utopia. He just hasn't.

[Leovigild]

7. Liberia will count heavily against Dean

Dean's willingness, indeed eagerness, to pour American troops into Liberia at Kofi Annan's request will weigh heavily against him in the campaign.

The American people do not accept humanitarian intervention at the UN's behest as the basis of foreign policy. They are a whole lot closer to geopolitical self-interest as the only valid reason to put American troops in harm's way. They do not want more Somalias.

[Rose Siding]

8. Uh, yeah, Liberia is at the center of the nat'l dialogue

:eyes:

*Not that I think you underestimate the selfishness of many Americans.

[Leovigild]

25. It's a kind of Willie Horton time bomb

Bush can easily respond that President Dean would send American soldiers into the Congo and one ethnic quagmire after another for UN missions.

That will count in the general election.

[Rose Siding]

26. Our ships sat in sight of conflict

while people were starved and killed. How can Bush bring that up? Maybe it would appeal to some isolationists, but with things the way they are in Iraq, none of that makes bush look good, even in the general.

[Leovigild]

53. Do you think Americans could care less ?

After Somalia Americans have no taste for UN humanitarian adventures especially in Africa. They have no interest in sending American troops into conflicts where there is no basis in self-interest. That is, aside from the handful of "citizen of the world" types.

After 9/11 most Americans consider Clinton-style humanitarian interventionism frivolous.

Bush will be able to argue that Dean would be no less interventionist than him, but because he wants foreigners to like him, not for reasons of self-interest.

[slinkerwink]

15. wtf?

I've never heard that before. Link?

[SahaleArm]

43. Google is your friend:)

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Howard+Dean+Liberia

Iraq War Opponent Dean Seeks Liberia Intervention: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0702-09.htm

[Andromeda]

51. Liberia is a blip on the radar ---

and not currently at the center of political discussion so I hardly think it's going to "weigh heavily" against him in the campaign.

[Leovigild]

54. Yes it will weigh heavily

National security has always been a problem issue for Democrats since McGovern. The premise under which Clinton was elected was the end of the Cold War and the presumed end of foreign threats.

A president longing to send American troops into African ethnic quagmires to please the UN would be an effective attack angle. After Somalia and especially after 9/11 the American public views humanitarian interventionism as a frivolous dispersion of American strength.

[Sully]

11. Yeah what about those sealed records?

On leaving office this year, Howard Dean sealed his gubernatorial papers for 10 years -- almost twice as long as his two predecessors, but considerably less than the 20-year-lock he sought -- determining himself, with his lawyers, what was covered by executive privilege. And so, on a hot, bright June morning, before Dwyer went back to her fields to bring in the hay --among other things, she is also a farmer -- we sat on her screened porch and cobbled together a list of questions the national media doesn't seem to have ever asked presidential candidate Howard Dean.

First, how come Gov. Dean, who is campaigning on his state record, sealed his own archive? "Well, there are future political considerations," the former governor told Vermont Public Radio. "We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor."


(exerpted from "A Dean's list of questions" by Diana West)

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0603/west1.asp

[Rose Siding]

13. Here's what he said

and it seems reasonable to me.

snip>
Dean defended the sealing of records during his five terms as governor.

"There are some things under law that every governor in every state in the country seals," he said.

Asked what they were, Dean answered: "I don't honestly know, but I can guess. Pardons, personal letters somebody wrote in to me and say 'I have HIV/AIDS,' I really don't know."

Dean insisted he played no role in what stayed private and what did not.

"I had very little to do with it. What gets sealed and doesn't get sealed is a matter of state law. There's not much flexibility on that. We never went through letters to see if this gets sealed and that doesn't get sealed," he recalled.

[dsc]

14. Did you even read the link?

He said this:

There are some things under law that every governor in every state in the country seals," he said.


Asked what they were, Dean answered: "I don't honestly know, but I can guess. Pardons, personal letters somebody wrote in to me and say 'I have HIV/AIDS,' I really don't know."


Dean insisted he played no role in what stayed private and what did not.


"I had very little to do with it. What gets sealed and doesn't get sealed is a matter of state law. There's not much flexibility on that. We never went through letters to see if this gets sealed and that doesn't get sealed," he recalled

[slinkerwink]

16. :rolls eyes:

Nice to see you using a RW talking point...

[Sully]

31. Hahaha!

RW talking point, Dean's OWN WORDS?

"Well, there are future political considerations," the former governor told Vermont Public Radio. "We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor."

Cmon now, talk about burying your head in the sand. I didn't put those words in the guys mouth. And as far as RW talking points go, aren't you just a little bit nervous that they have SO MANY about Dr. D. and all in his own words?

[JohnKleeb]

30. Thanks but I wish he had explained his foriegn policy a bit better

Like after all his opposition to the war is what got him press and popularity with people, I wanna know how Dean will prevent future Iraq's, not just my major opponents said yes to IWR, so thus I will be better, things arent that black and white, I want to know how Dean will prevent future Iraq's. My candiate, Dennis Kucinich wants to make war in his words archaic and also to rejoin the international community that Bush has violated. Nothin personal, just a question, I really am curious to know this, thats why I ask. This position against the war got him press, how is he gonna change our foriegn policy? not is he? keep in mind, how. I personally think thats where we gotta change the most, and thats why I like Kucinich, and yes I am a pacifist or pacifist like in many degrees, and I count myself as a dove.

[Rose Siding]

32. He didn't cover all his policies in this one interview

(or it would have been a REALLY long interview, lol) but here is what he said about preventive war on his site- and there are more foreign policy papers and statements at the link that follows:

"There is also no doubt that a sovereign state has a right to fight a preemptive war against an imminent threat to its vital national security interests. But I have stated many times that the situation in Iraq did not come close to meeting this criterion. A comprehensive effort to curb the spread of weapons of mass destruction, especially nuclear weapons, will be a critical priority for a Dean Administration. Success will require a combination of diplomacy and deterrence, with our military strength making our efforts more effective. On the diplomatic side, our ability to enter into long-term steady and reliable alliances and our policy of extended deterrence have made nuclear weapons acquisition unnecessary for many nations. Effective US diplomacy, with international support embodied in the Non-Proliferation Treaty, has reversed proliferation in some countries. Export controls and Cooperative Threat Reduction have denied weapons technology to proliferators. Sound WMD technical intelligence helps to ensure that we have an accurate picture of potential threats. The US also deters potential WMD attacks by our ability to generate an overwhelming and devastating response to their use. Finally, the deployment of defenses against ballistic missile and chemical and biological weapons attack addresses this threat. The Bush Administration has been almost single-minded in its focus on preemptive war as a means to combat proliferation. As President, I would not make this mistake: all means to combat the threat of WMD, cooperative and coercive, multilateral and unilateral, would be employed."

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_foreign

[JohnKleeb]

33. All I wanted to know thanks

[Skwmom]

45. How does that square with this?

He (Dean) gets a deluge of phone calls from reporters asking him to clarify his position. Which is -- "as I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.

http://fordean.org/aa/issues/press_view.asp?ID=398

30 - 60 days would infer that the threat was NOT imminent.

[Scott Lee]

34. There's nothing Dean can say to assuage the Haters

Although I commend your effort.

Do you find it darkly funny as I do, that the antiDeans are "defining themselves through opposition" in much the same way the rethugs do? Is it intentional, or just a hilarious miscalculation?

[MasonJar]

35. According to a Clinton

According to an official who worked in the Clinton WH and is still there under Bush, the Clinton personnel argued policy until all the ideas were out and the Bush personnel always consider the ramifications of the politics of the situation.