Kennedy anniversary: which candidate is most like JFK

[DemDogs]

The likely choices are
JFKerry -- the monogram of course, Massachusetts, Navy hero, intriguing wife

John Edwards -- attractive, young, energetic, young family, short time in the Senate, near miss for VP in the previous cycle

[zeemike]

1. But you are just going on looks right?

Which one would act like Kennedy acted? Take on the tough things that he did, and do visionary things that aimed us to the future?
I think Dean could be considered.

[Octafish]

8. Actions speak louder than words.

Dean has been all talk, except when he showed up at the draft board with a note from his doctor.

BTW: John F. Kennedy had a bad back, too. It didn't stop Kennedy from enlisting in the United States Navy.

[DemBones DemBones]

30. After a physical, the Army rejected JFK , but

his father used his influence to help him enlist in the Navy. He served with honor and was decorated for bravery, despite a truly serious and painful back condition and Addison's disease.

[JohnKleeb]

31. I was learning about how bad his back was tonight

and he still served! Thats courage.

[Octafish]

37. PT-109 survivors were glad he was their skipper.

The night their boat was rammed and sunk by a Japanese destroyer, JFK swam out and gathered survivors on the bow section, which remained afloat. Two men below decks aft were killed in the collision. The next day Kennedy led the survivors on a 3-mile swim to a nearby island, personally towing the most grievously wounded survivor by holding the tether to the man's life jacket in his teeth. Once there, he did all he could to avoid the enemy and effect their rescue. For two nights, JFK would brave shark-infested waters, carrying a lantern, to signal passing PT-boats. The third night, he was exhausted and his exec went out. The next day, a native who worked with an Australian coastal watcher found them and got word to the Allies.



Here's the story, told better than my memory:

http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkpt109.shtml

[sandnsea]

10. Like what?

What visionary things got accomplished in Vermont? And the health care doesn't count because it's running huge deficits and getting cut all the time. So, what else is uniquely visionary about Ho-Ho?

[Rowdyboy]

2. I would have to say Kerry

for the obvious reasons and more. He reminds me of JFK in several ways, beyond their state, initials and military background.

I'd put Clark a close second. His mind, military background etc. But Clark comes from the middle class and really lacks the connections Kennedy had at birth

[surfermaw]

3. I would vote for Edwards

Kennedy was strong, yet soft. he cared for the people of this nation and his intention was to stop the race thing. He had vision for the nation...Edwards has vision, and he is for the nation, not himself. Edwards has humor, Kennedy did also... It is Edwards that gets my vote.

[chimpymustgo]

6. Edwards gets the edge.

Kerry has the background, the look.

But Edwards has the personality, the humor, the wife and kids.

[JI7]

22. how about

kerry+edwards=jfk

i believe both have something that you can see was in jfk. although many times i thought edwards was more the robert kennedy type who i admit to admiring more than the president kennedy.

[JohnKleeb]

23. not to sound snobby but I see a lot of Bobby in my own candiate

:D but I think I see what you mean with Edwards and Bobby.
I like this theory though J17
Kerry + Edwards= JFK
I personally like Bobby Kennedy more than Jack but damnit all 3 of them kick or kicked ass in many ways.

[JI7]

26. so do i

i see a bobby kennedy in kucinich too. edwards seems to have a bit of both , bobby kennedy, and john kennedy. but with kucinich, especially his activism you see bobby kennedy. and you are right, all 3 kick ass. another one kucinich reminds me of is paul wellstone, probably because i actually knew of him while he was alive and it's more recent. with jfk and rfk, it's mostly based on what you read and see on tv, but didn't actually live it while they were alive .

[JohnKleeb]

29. Yea

Wellstone and Kucinich do have some in common. I really dont know who I see Kerry in other than JFK. He's not like Ted Kennedy, dont take that as an insult, its just their styles are different, both are solid liberal democrats with great visions.

[no name no slogan]

54. Gotta agree re: the Wellstone comparisons

I was fortunate to know and work with Paul Wellstone on at least two occassions. The first was in 1988 when he helped out on a state leg race I was working on, and the second was in 1990 when we "stormed" the MN caucuses and got him nominated over the favored Senate candidate.

DK reminds me of Paul because not only do both men talk the talk, but they're not afraid to stand up and "walk the walk", too. That means marching in solidarity with strikers, engaging in civil disobedience (Wellstone was arrested at least once in the early 80s for protesting high-powered electrical lines going over farmers property, IIRC).

Also, both men have a vision that's different from that of the "typical" democrat. They're not afraid to dream of a better world, and fight for it too.

On that note, as far as the vision for a better country goes, I'd have to go w/ DK all the way (big suprise, right? :D ).

[JohnKleeb]

4. I'd have to agree on that acessment

A combo of Edwards and Kerry.

[Octafish]

5. John Kerry knew John F Kennedy.

And they have more than their initials in common:

Home State: Massachusetts
Occupation when elected: US Senator
Political Party: Democratic
Party Wing: Liberal
Foreign Policy: Empower America First
Domestic Policy: Empower All Americans Equally
Combat Veteran: US Navy
Actions include: Rescuing Men Under His Command In Combat
John F. Kennedy Decorations include: Purple Heart, Navy & Marine Corps Medal
John F. Kerry Decorations include: Three Purple Hearts, Silver Star, Bronze Star

No wonder Rove soaks his Depends anytime mentions the initials "JFK." Cheney orders a double Dynatab. And you know they won't let the unelected moron hear about anything JFK, so he probably doesn't even know what he's in for come the Fall of 2004.



Kerry, left, sails with President John F. Kennedy
aboard the 62-foot Coast Guard yawl Manitou
in Narragansett Bay on Aug. 26, 1962.



EDIT: Duh forgot the pic.

[dsc]

7. I think a case can be made for Lieberman

Lieberman and Kennedy share the historic religious angle, a hawkish foreign policy, and both are NE Senators.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I dont think JFK was that religious

He was a praticing Catholic yes, I dont doubt that but he wasnt as religious as Lieberman is. I think of the Kennedy brothers, Bobby was the most religious.

[dsc]

11. Clearly he wasn't

had he been he probably wouldn't have won. But Kennedy inspired a whole generation of Catholics who had never seen a leading national Catholic candidate. The last one was Dewey who lost to Truman in 1948.

[George_Bonanza]

43. JFK was hardly pious

I recall that his father told his sons that religion was a superficial thing, something to make yourself seem wholesome. But obviously, JFK's flings and sexual escapades are very detached from what one would expect from a devout Catholic man.

[DFLforever]

12. Howard Dean

Tough, not afraid to take the battle to the enemy. Not easily intimidated by vested interests. Both are fighters all the way. A 'polarizing' figure? at least according to some on DU; RFK certainly was. Most importantly, both have personalities that seem to empower those who otherwise feel powerless.

[sandnsea]

13. On vision, nobody beats Kerry

That's what Kennedy had, a bright vision for the future. Kerry's energy plan and how it changes the dynamics of our relations around the world as well as our economy. Kerry wants us to stop our own nuclear program and truly work with the UN and other nations to get WMD off the planet. He's already introduced legislation to change our arms sales treaties. He is the one who worked with Frist to introduce the Global AIDS bill that Bush failed to fund. He's received awards for his legislation and work on early childhood education. He's the one who has introduced environmental, human rights and labor amendments in almost every trade bill. He's the one who first introduced gay rights legislation in Congress. He's the one with the proven track record on housing, health care, education, civil rights and everything Democrats say they care about.

He's the one Bobby endorsed for President too.

[chimpymustgo]

14. Persuasive arguments.

roll 'em up together...

[JohnKleeb]

15. Bobby Jr so you dont confuse people endorsed Kerry

and I am in envy of that but its well deserved and earned IMO. Do you think if Kerry were elected president, he would make Bobby Jr his Secretary of the Interior, he seems like he would be great for it. Just like his dad was in the Justice department.

[sandnsea]

16. Jr, of course

I'm sure Bobby Jr could do absolutely anything he wanted to in a Kerry Administration and I would hope any Democratic Administration. But from the Salon interview it seems like he would really prefer to stay out of the limelight if possible. The only thing bringing him into it now is this disastrous Energy Bill and Bush in general. But I'm glad he's speaking out, we sure need him!

[JohnKleeb]

18. Yeah, Ive been saying whenever one of you guys(Kerry supporters)

that I envy that endorsement. Oh I didnt know that, but still hes a great guy like his dad was.

[JI7]

17. senatar from mass, navy

other things in common are both are senators from massachusettes, kerry enlisted in the military, in the navy, the same as john kennedy even though both came from a pretty well to do family. but i don't think these things are as important as the things sandsea listed.

[Octafish]

56. Like JFK, John Kerry is a Liberal Democrat

Sen. Kerry believes in using the power of government to make life better for ALL Americans. That means supporting public education, children's programs, public safety, organized labor, small businesses, pro-family, universal health care coverage and a whole bunch more of the things that Democrats made possible and support.

And, like JFK, Kerry's devotion to public service doesn't stop at our nation's shores. Kerry has worked to make this a better world for everybody. Kerry's record shows this, from his work to protect the global environment, his efforts to control nuclear proliferation, and his backing of the United Nations in its humanitarian programs.

[genius]

19. Dennis Kucinich of course

Dennis is the civil rights candidate. He was a strong opponent of the death penalty. Dennis will bring us the universal health care program Kennedy said he wanted. If Kennedy had lived, the world would be a lot more like the country Dennis will turn America into.

[dsc]

20. JFK didn't oppose the death penalty

and signed a death warrent as President.

[JohnKleeb]

21. you sure?

I think you could be right about that, not flamin ya just askin, his brothers did though, Teddy said at Sirhan's trial that his brother would have wanted him to been punished without the death penalty. Just sayin, :shrug:. I know Truman opposed it though, he commuted his attempted assassin to life in prison. I think I am gonna have to go with a combo of Kerry and Edwards though, Kucinich is the best in my eyes but hes not like that much like JFK at least in what I see, both are great of course but I see DK being more like my personal fave Kennedy, Bobby.

[dsc]

24. Here is the link

http://www.bop.gov/ipapg/ipaexechart.html

Before Bush the last execution was in March of 1963 Victor Feguer for kidnapping.

[JohnKleeb]

28. Ok thanks, dont take that as me not trustin ya

Just because of how his brother is, I thought he would be against it.

[sandnsea]

33. Death penalty was a 70's issue

Most people really didn't think much about the death penalty in the early sixties. As far as I know anyway. It just sort of was.

Did you know that until 1963 criminals didn't get lawyers at trial? They just had to go in by themselves and try to represent themselves against a prosecutor, sheriff and judge. There's a movie about it with Henry Fonda, Gideon's Trumpet. Very good. It's the ACLU case that went to the Supreme Court and changed it.

I don't remember when murder suspects were given the right to a lawyer, but it was somewhere in the mid 1900's too. Things we take for granted. That's why I get so worried about some candidates who don't seem to take the plight of the less fortunate very seriously. No worry about that with DK though, or JK.

[dsc]

35. I do know that

but Johnson nor Nixon executed anyone despite the death penalty still being around. There were many people opposed to death penalty even in the 1960's. It should be noted that Kennedy's sole appointee to the court was conservative on issues of crime. That isn't dispositive since people change and I have no clue what White told Kennedy he would do but White was quite conservative on crime.

[sandnsea]

36. That's true

I just remembered the death penalty becoming a larger issue as the 60's progressed. Of course, I was also growing up and maybe just becoming more aware myself. And it is always possible that JFK just supported it outright as well. It doesn't seem to me that anybody has ever really gotten to the core of him completely.

(My post was kind of more directed at JK and giving a little background. I like young people to know things haven't always been as they are. Good to have the extra input.)

[dsc]

39. BTW the movie

was fabulous. Henry Fonda was a national treasure.

[JohnKleeb]

51. actually he had 2 appointees

Now Goldburg wasnt on as long as White was but Goldburg was a liberal.

[JohnKleeb]

50. I saw Gideon's Trumpet right around when I started getting political!

Yes I know Gideon VS Wainright.

[genius]

48. That proves nothing

Many officials who are personally opposed to the death penalty, as Kennedy was, look to the laws and the courts for guidance in matters of this nature rather than superceding the law with their own personal positions. Democrats, who know the death penalty is wrong, seem more reluctant to intercede because they feel there will be more of a backlash. Dennis has the courage to act regardless of any backlash and that is what makes him so great.

[Byronic]

32. It's very interesting

One of Bobby's friends asked him about this apparent change in opinion over the death penalty:

Friend: I thought you supported the death penalty.

RFK: Yes, but that was before I read Camus.

I think it was another indication of the enormous sea-change in the outlook of Robert Kennedy that took place after the assassination of his brother. From the ruthless ("when Bobby hates you you stay hated") Attorney General he became the crusading advocate for the impoverished and down-trodden. He was still tough but when his brother died and he disappeared into that awful period of grief (it took him 6 months, I think to laugh again - which occurred at a theatre while watching a performance of My Fair Lady) where he read Camus, Aeschylus and emersed himself in poetry, he did seem to change in many ways.

[mbali]

25. John Edwards

although he reminds me more of RFK than JFK.

[cindyw]

46. I was thinking the same thing

John Edwards =Bobby
John Kerry=JFK

JK has crafted his life on the legacy of JFK. Could you get a better role model.

[DrFunkenstein]

27. Kerry's Belief In The Honor of Public Service

Kerry really took to heart Kennedy's call to ask what one can do for their country. Not just by volunteering for the military, but for protesting free fire zones in Vietnam, and the public policy behind the war afterwards.

In certain ways, Kerry's political career was born in the beginning of the Watergate era, while he remained true to the Kennedy ideals of government reform. Since then, he has tirelessly worked to return the American trust in government through transparency and accountability. He refused to accept PAC money and went after the corruption that eats at the heart of our sort-of democracy.

My sincere hope is that his Presidency will mark the beginning of the end of the Watergate era of public mistrust. Because although there is alot of just plain bullsh*t in government, I throroughly believe there is such a thing as the public good.

And, dang nabbit, I would really, REALLY love to return to a time when we could trust our government to do the right thing. Only this time, we won't blindly trust them - we'll have mechanisms in place like Kerry's "Corporate Subsidies Reform Commission" to let us know that someone is constantly watchdogging those greedy little bastards.

[LarryTheTiger]

34. John Edwards is young and attractive?

He just turned 50 a few months ago didn't he? Attractive? You've got to be kidding me.

[Octafish]

38. You say the nicest things.

You denigrate JFK on LBN and here you are in P&C to sprinkle love on JE.

Thanks loads, Larry!

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU!

PS: Why would an intelligent person — a Democrat, IOW — judge a book by its cover?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Octafish]

40. Anyone know about Joseph P. Kennedy Jr.?

The President's big brother was pretty heroic himself:

Ensign Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. with his Navy flight trainer.



The President’s big brother was the one being groomed for a life in politics by The Old Man. He had served as a delegate from Massachusetts voting for FDR at the 1940 Democratic convention. A very brave, athletic and conscientious young man, he volunteered for service in the US Navy before World War II. Here's how he died.

After completing his tour as pilot of a US Navy B-24 Liberator on anti-submarine warfare patrol from 1943-44 over the North Atlantic, flying out of an airbase in England, Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. volunteered for a top-secret mission in which he would pilot an experimental version of the 4-engine B-24 bomber. The plane had been converted from being a 10-man bomber, capable of carrying sixteen 500 pound bombs, into one giant flying bomb.

The plan was called: Operation Aphrodite. The objective was to knock out the V-2 sites along the coast of France. A secret weapon the Navy, in cooperation with the Army Air Corps, wanted to use against the German V-2 sites along the coast of France.

One of Hitler's superweapons, the V-2 was developed by Werner von Braun and his team at Peenemünde. History's first ballistic missiles were used to rain death, destruction and terror upon London. The allies were worried that if the Nazis continued developing their super-weapons, the V-2’s descendants would be delivering bombs — possibly atomic — to New York City.

Kennedy’s job was to get the ship airborne from its airfield in Great Britain, point it toward Europe, and bail out over the countryside. Sounds simple, but it was anything but. It was state-of-the-art science, engineering, and warfare. Joe Kennedy’s plane was among a few Liberators and Flying Fortresses modified for a very early version of remote control.

The ship, basically, was history’s first guided missile. The entire fuselage was filled with Torpex and gelignite, IIRC, and was to be armed by a rather elaborate, and untested, electronic arming panel.

Like something out of Buck Rogers, the Navy equipped the airplane with a primitive 2-channel remote-control pilot. One radio signal could make the plane dive and climb and another signal could make it turn left and right. A prototype video camera would also send information to the Mother Ship, where the remote pilot sat before a tiny TV monitor.

Joe Kennedy and his fellow volunteer pilots were needed to get the flying bombs airborne. One aloft, they were to turn on the radio-guidance controls and arm the flying bomb. Then, somewhere over the English countryside, the pilot and bombardier were to bail out at an altitude of about ONE THOUSAND FEET.

The scientists and engineers in the Mother Ship would take over and signal on two radio frequencies: One to turn the stick RIGHT or LEFT; or push the stick FORWARD or pull the stick BACK. Primitive today, they were the first remote-controlled weapon of mass destruction. The Mother Ship would follow two miles or so back and then fly it over the English Channel and guide it down into the rocket launch sites.

It was dangerous work. Because of the modifications to the B-17s, one pilot was killed and another lost an arm in the process. By the time it was Joe’s turn in the B-24 there was reason for concern about a plan that was seeming to look like a suicide mission.

For the Kennedys and the future of American politics, the tragedy was that the Navy ship used a rather primitive arming panel. The regular engineer/co-pilot refused to fly and instead the Navy sent aloft the engineer who designed and installed the system.

Over the English countryside, the ship exploded, killing the two flyers and changing American political history. Joe's younger brother John Fitzgerald Kennedy then became the heir to the family's political ambitions.

John F. Kennedy made an outstanding President, living up to his brother’s promise of greatness. JFK, it should be remembered, saved the world from nuclear annihilation during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

While he never lived to see the dream realized, JFK also stretched mankind’s imagination and reach to the moon. Ironically, he even used the NAZI rocket scientist who developed the V-2 to do so. The same von Braun who the allied air command sent his lost brother, Joseph, to destroy.

— Octafish

# # #

Two outstanding books on the subject of Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. and his service in World War II:

“Aphrodite: Desperate Mission” by Jack Olsen

and

“The Lost Prince: Young Joe, the Forgotten Kennedy” by Hank Searls.

A link to instant information:

http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkbrother.shtml

[George_Bonanza]

41. I read about him in a Kennedy biography

He was apparently a stronger and smarter version of Jack. Unfortunately, he was killed in the RAF in WW II as a stunt pilot, trying to distinguish his bravery. He was numero uno in the family before his death, and then the ambassador ushered JFK into political life, replacing his now departed older brother. Tragic really.

[Octafish]

45. Not RAF. United States Navy aviator.

Hey, DU Friend George_Bonanza! Scroll down in my post above to read about JPK Jr. The guy was incredibly brave, getting airborne one of the first remotely piloted flying bombs. His loss truly was a tragedy for our nation.

[LuminousX]

42. None.

[PAMod]

52. I'm glad you said it first, LX

These guys don't seem at all like JFK, and that's ok. Each has an impressive resume, and each has unique characteristics.

The real question is - If 2004 is to be the turning point - when we begin to reclaim America's greatness - which of these people will be the catalyst?

[w4rma]

44. JFKerry = JFK, Dean = Truman (n/t)

[cindyw]

47. I'll take the Kennedy era over the Truman era, anyday.

n/t

[helleborient]

55. We were at peace during most of the Truman era...

Until we joined the UN in Korea.

Kennedy began our unilateral involvement in Vietnam.

[helleborient]

53. Ummm...seriously why does it matter?

And, for those who really want to look at history - JFK lost the 1960 election in the same way Bush lost the 2000 election.

JFK would not be President without Mayor Daley's shenanigans in Chicago. We, as Democrats, seem to want to forget that, but it is the truth.

JFK was a great President at times, but according to most historians, his reputation far outshines reality of accomplishments.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

57. Kerry

of course.