SC Survey (DLC Members) Gives Dean Best Chance to Beat Bush

[tsipple]

S.C. survey gives Dean best chance to beat Bush

By LEE BANDY
On Politics
The State

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean would have the best shot at beating President Bush in 2004, according to an unscientific online survey of moderate South Carolina Democrats.

More than 500 Democratic activists participated in the week-long survey, conducted by the South Carolina Democratic Leadership Council.

The survey — handled completely by e-mail and through the council’s Web site — included numerous questions about the nine presidential candidates and issues.

When asked to name the candidate with the best chance of beating Bush, 33 percent chose Dean, followed by retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark with 27 percent and U.S. Sen. John Edwards with 14 percent.

Click here for full article.

My comment: Do you think Al From feels like AARP CEO Bill Novelli right about now? :-)

[Skwmom]

1. So people are buying into the Dean propoganda.

It won't be the first time that many Americans have been fooled. If the media would have done it's job, we would not be faced with the Dean Debacle.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

11. No...the MEDIA parrots Rove propaganda. Why you all for it is the mystery.

.

[Padraig18]

3. *Yawn*

:eyes:

[joeybee12]

4. Hmm...Dean Debacle--you mean a Dem victory next November?

Yeah, I can imagine how awful that will be.

[lastliberalintexas]

6. For some posters here

apparently a Dean victory would be worse than another 4 years of Shrub. Go figure. :shrug:

[Padraig18]

9. Isn't that weird?

I fail to see any logic to that position; I also fail to understand the spiteful "I'll vote for Candidate X, but that's ALL I'll do next November" position. What in God's name could be worse than another 4 years of *, ffs? :wtf::shrug:

[sandnsea]

10. It's that it could be so much better

That's the problem. Dean supporters listen to what he says now and just follow. Others look at his entire record and understand there's other candidates who are much more true to Democratic values. He supported free trade. He supported Yucca Mtn. He supported the same kinds of Medicare changes the House just passed, in fact he implemented co-pays, deductibles and premiums in Vermont Medicaid. He supported deregulation. His supporters may trust that he just suddenly saw the light on all of these issues, but I find it just a bit too much to swallow. One or two things maybe, but not almost everything he's ever said or done.

We can do better than this. And it is very frustrating for some of us who see that what Dean would do as President isn't that much different than the compromises being worked out right now.

[lastliberalintexas]

13. Thank you

I had not been called uninformed or ignorant yet today, so I am glad that someone finally stepped up to the plate to make the accusation.

[Padraig18]

17. Yes.

I've not been called an unthinking robot is a few days, either. Care for some Kool-Aid? :eyes:

[KaraokeKarlton]

27. Oh yeah, those one dollar co-pays for prescriptions are a bitch

And boy oh boy doesn't it suck for families who make up to $50 grand a year having to fork over NO MORE than $50 a month for premiums, based on their incomes. Those poorer people who don't have to pay any premiums or co-pays at all are really getting screwed on this one. Why, those pitiful families who make $50,000 a year only make just under $1000 a week! How on earth could they ever afford $600 a year in insurance premiums? That Dr. Dean is a real bastard for this one!

:eyes:

[wryter2000]

16. "Media" is plural

Medium is the singular. But I guess if parroting is your thing, you might as well stick with the common error.

[redqueen]

36. tee hee

Actually, to correct that statement, you don't change 'media' to the singular, you modify 'its job' to 'their jobs'.

Clearly it is more than one medium which has become compltely, utterly corrupted by money / corporate influence.

[Andromeda]

22. This is a prerecorded message...

:crazy:

[LuminousX]

24. Why... why? Thank you for creating more rancor.

[RetroLounge]

25. You just crack me up with your SNARKY responses.

Agree with Skwmom and you are brilliant.

Disagree with Skwmom and you are being FOOLED BY DEAN!

DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN...

_|_

[KaraokeKarlton]

26. Are you trying to say

That a third of Democrats are fools? Perhaps it is you who has been fooled by all the lies Dean's opponents like to tell about him. Maybe it's time to take that mirror you are shoving in everyone else's faces and look into yourself. Just a thought.

[sandnsea]

5. DLCer's for Dean

This is just getting to be a fucking riot. I thought Dean was the anti-DLC candidate.

"The Democratic Leadership Council is a group of moderate-to-conservative Democrats formed in 1985 with the objective of moving public discourse away from traditional liberalism and conservatism.

The S.C. chapter of the DLC is the largest in the nation, with a membership list of 2,000 party activists."

What a revolution. :eyes:

[lastliberalintexas]

8. DLC members

have never been the problem. The DLC leadership has been the problem- they have been the ones telling our elected officials we must go along with Shrub so as not to appear soft on terra, welfare, crime, etc. Although I am not one myself, I welcome moderate Dems in the party- we need everyone we can get. But I think this shows just another disconnect between the rank and file and From.

I think all of our candidates would be much better off if they told From to take a long walk. We've got a very good field this year, but some of them have been unfairly hampered by listening to his drivel.

[jiacinto]

18. Dean is in the DLC

but that fact is often forgotten.

[Jack Rabbit]

19. Carlos . . .

. . . Sometimes it seems as though Al From and Bruce Reed would like us all to forget it.

[AP]

31. smoke and mirrors

The guy needs some liberal bona fides to get the DEM nomination. DLC was happy to provide it, I guess.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Instead of Occam's razor...

...you reach for the tinfoil.


Interesting.

[Tinoire]

29. Well- Meet-up.com and Moveon.org are close enough to the DLC

that they attended the NDN's annual meeting in June and the NDN does boast that unlike the more top-down DLC they are building a grassroots network of donors so you can, in New Speak, call them activists I guess. The entire thing about some grass-roots movement is DLC smoke and mirrors to better fool people. The boys weren't sitting around playing poker as we posted on DU and other boards- they were strategizing about how best to manipulate us by harnessing the internet and mimicking our talking points.

Nothing new in the world of politics except that people behind computer key-boards are now considered activists as long as they have a check-book.
---------------

[Jack Rabbit]

7. These are DLC members, not the leadership

At least the members know, even if From and Reed don't, that opposition to the invasion of Iraq does not equate with being weak on issues of security or even a weak resolve to fight a war on terrorists.

Some on the Left may criticize Dean because he not a committed pacifist. Indeed, he isn't. However, that doesn't mean he is a man of good judgment as to when to go to war and when not to. The war was sold to the American public with a pack of lies. Some of us didn't buy it; Dean was among those who did not. He correctly saw that resources needed to protect the American people from terrorists were being diverted to what is best characterized as a colonial misadventure. Today, Osama sets of bombs where he pleases while half of the army's combat troops are on occupation duty in Iraq protecting Halliburton's projects. The invasion and occupation of Iraq is a disastrous blunder; Howard Dean saw that it would be.

What Dean showed was clear foresight and good judgment in this instance. This may not mean he can beat Bush more easily than some of the other Democrats who want to be President, but that he showed so much better judgment than Bush or the Congressional Democrats who voted for the IWR is a major plus.

The mantra that Dean is unelectable has been chanted for too long by the DLC's leadership and the mainstream pundits. It is hollow gibberish. The mantra that those who wish to defeat our banana republic dictator next year should be chanting is that Dean is more capable of making a sound decision than is Bush.

[blm]

12. They guy had "Mixed feelings" about Reagan's illegal contra wars.

And you call that "good judgement" after everything we know today about those wars and IranContra?

[lastliberalintexas]

14. So did Tip O'Neill

Who also refused to pursue impeachment proceedings in the House, despite the wishes of many of his colleagues. However much I may disagree with him on that, I still think he was a good Dem with basically good judgment, just as I think Dean is as well.

[tsipple]

15. No, Don't Misquote

First of all, you're quoting Joe Klein, not Howard Dean. Klein only bothered to put "mixed feelings" in quotation marks. Find me the full quote as Howard Dean said it, not as Joe Klein filtered it.

Second of all, Klein himself makes no such assertion. He said that Dean had "mixed feelings" about the Contras. He most certainly did not say that Dean had "mixed feelings" about Reagan's illegal Contra wars.

So did I. So did virtually every Democrat.

Get it correct, please. You've been warned (again).

[blm]

21. Baloney. If Dean felt misquoted by Klein he would demand a retraction.

He was legendary for demanding retractions as governor.

Your spin is to pretend that Klein was wrong and refuse to believe that Dean could have said anything like this.

[tsipple]

23. He Wasn't Quoted by Klein

So he wasn't misquoted. (Klein had quotation marks around two words.)

You, however, are misquoting Klein. And therefore you are being asked to retract -- or at least put up the relevant portion of Klein's article to let everyone else judge your spinning.

Thanks.

[Cocoa]

20. I thought the DLC was conspiring against Dean

There was a time not too long ago when Dean very strongly represented the anti-DLC, and many many things were explained by DLC machinations.

Like a lot of things, you don't hear that so much any more. Like campaign finance, negative campaigning, etc. etc.

Nowadays it's all about $$$$$$$ and winning, people don't seem sure why anymore.

[Tinoire]

28. It is strange that no one can tell when Dean broke from the DLC

Lots of hissing and big words but not enough to keep him from being part of this year's New Democrat Network's Annual meeting in June 2003


NDN's Annual Meeting

NDN’s Annual Meeting was a great day, featuring some of Democrats’ most influential voices, best new leaders, and top strategists all focused on achieving NDN’s Agenda to expand prosperity and opportunity, assert responsible global leadership, protect the homeland, strengthen families and communities, modernize our health care system, and leave behind an even more beautiful America.

The day included an announcement of NDN’s expanded mission, the release of groundbreaking research on swing voters and the Hispanic electorate, remarks from four of the major Democratic Presidential candidates, and more!

For recent press articles about NDN's Annual Meeting and Agenda, click here.

Click on the video links to hear what our speakers had to say about how to build a brighter future for all Americans.

Governor Bill Richardson (NM)
Annual Meeting Co-Chair

Senator Mary Landrieu (LA)
Annual Meeting Co-Chair

Senator Joseph Lieberman (CT)

Senator Bob Graham (FL)

Governor Howard Dean (VT)

Senator John Kerry (MA)

General Wesley Clark

Senator Blanche Lincoln (AR)

Simon Rosenberg, President, NDN

Representative Jane Harman (CA)

Pollster Mark Penn Sergio Bendixen of Bendixen and Associates

Representative Artur Davis (AL)

Representative Bob Menendez (NJ)

Candidate for Governor Joe Andrew (IN)

Scott Heiferman, CEO, Meetup.com

NDN News Release on Meetup.com


http://www.newdem.org/annualmeeting/

[Classical_Liberal]

34. They polled moderate south carolina dems not dlcers

. It was a bad title. If anything this polls shows how out of touch the dlc is even in the South.

[DrFunkenstein]

30. "unscientific online survey of moderate South Carolina Democrats"

That's a little, you know, useless.

[helleborient]

33. Yep, you're right just like Kerry's victory at the Missouri bar-b-q (n/t)

[redqueen]

35. Thanks for pointing this out.

Kucinich's great showings in 'unscientific online surveys' get laughed at.

Dean's get in mainstream newspapers.

:shrug:

[helleborient]

37. Mainstream local newspaper...not like it's an AP wire story or something..

I'm not really sure how widely this story has been distributed...probably because of the problems in methodology.

[redqueen]

38. Whatever...

Either way, if you post ANYTHING about Kucinich winning hands down in an 'unscientific online sruvey' or poll, people on THIS board will set you right within a matter of hours about how stupid it is.