Dem leaders uniting against Green candidate in SF runoff

[Mairead]

Democratic leaders are uniting behind Gavin Newsom and promising to bring in whatever help he needs to win the Dec. 9 runoff election.

Former Vice President Al Gore will be in San Francisco to campaign for Newsom next month; Sen. Dianne Feinstein, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Secretary of State Kevin Shelley and most other local Democratic officeholders have endorsed him.

"The mayor of San Francisco has tremendous influence,'' said Art Torres, head of the state Democratic Party. "We believe the Democratic Party stands for certain principles and we want to uphold those principles (in San Francisco).''
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/11/23/GREENS.TMP


Some time back, I criticised the idea of ABB by raising a scenario in which Jeb Bush claims to have had an epiphany and stands for President as a nominal Democrat. Predictably, all the knee jerks criticised me severely.

Yet here we have what amounts to that very scenario: the Dem big guns coming out for a stealth Republican with a Republican campaign organiser.

If that doesn't make you sick, then you need to join the GOP tomorrow morning, first thing, because you're in the wrong pew.

[Demobrat]

1. This is disgusting.

Al Gore is coming here to stump for Newsom? When did he become a Repuke?

[OhioStateProgressive]

2. what is wrong with a Green Party Mayor?

im almost afraid to ask for fear of upsetting people...but what is that all bad about it?

greens are progressives, right?

[Demobrat]

3. Nothing.

Gonzalez is the Green. Newsom is the millionaire panhandler, I mean Repuke, I mean DINO.

[OhioStateProgressive]

5. i was kinda being sarcastic

i like the Green Party, alot

it upsets me that most Democrats are unwilling to allow Greens to have a voice

[NNadir]

6. Why should we give the Greens a voice in our party?

Maybe you didn't live through the 2000 election, where the Greens ran AGAINST the Democrats and IGNORED the Republicans, except to suggest that George Bush was as moderate as Al Gore. (Yeah, right.) I was in Italy when Nader made a speech about the election: All he did was to attack Gore. He didn't mention Bush's name. He still hasn't, lest he offend his good buddy Pat Buchanan during a coffee klatch on Censored News Network.

What's so fucking Green about dropping high explosives on the ancient cities of the fertile Cresent from high altitudes, about undermining international law including the most important environmental treaties of our time, the Kyoto treaty and the Montreal Protocols? What I hear from Nader while this is happening is that he's thinking of suing the NBA for bad officiatiating, oh yes, and he wishes Microsoft would pay dividends.

I want no part of the Greens in my party. They made a big stink about having their own party and they have it. I don't want their votes and I don't give a shit what they think we should do. Fuck 'em. They care about NOTHING but their own greed to satiate their egos.

The Greens are NOT democrats. We owe them nothing, certainly not a voice in our affairs. They have treated us with hatred and contempt and worked hard to support the Republican's contention that they were merely "compassionate conservatives" as opposed to dangerous fascist reactionaries. We should take "advice" from the Republigreens with the same spirit that we take "advice" from the regular Republicans.

[OhioStateProgressive]

7. hmmm

i am one of those left wing reactionaries, and even further than Greens

but it's all good...i will help the Democrats this time

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Well

I am planning to vote Dem this time around to get Bushie baby out of office. But if you guys had run WELLSTONE last time I NEVER would have voted for Ralph.

[OhioStateProgressive]

10. yes!...bingo!

if the democrats give the party back to the Progressives, we would never vote third party!

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Well, that's not really true for me.

I'm not against all dems or repubs by any means, but I am against the two party system in general.

Still, if the Dems want to run more Wellstones and Kuciniches I'll gladly support those candidates. :^)

[OhioStateProgressive]

12. well...im basically a Socialist

so i suppose i believe in a One party system with different sub parties

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. Yeah

I'm a watermelon Green, myself. :)

[OhioStateProgressive]

14. cool:)(nt)

[burr]

4. They never allowed the fourth Star Wars movie to be shown...

THE PEOPLE STRIKE BACK

or the fifth, RETURN OF THE BOSSES.

What about the unseen multi-million dollar, terminator IV movie...RISE OF CORRUPTION AND PARTY MACHINES?

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Wish I was in San Fran

to support Matt.

He did get Martin Sheen's endorsement, which is very cool. :^)

[a_lil_wall_fly]

17. GPV..nice site

Very clean and good solid generalized information.

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Thanks

That was the aim. :^)

A lot of people have blown it off just because my handle is part of the name, but I have had some very constructive conversations with Dems, Repubs, Libertarians, and Independents who took the time to research the reform ideas.

In all honesty, had McCain won the nomination last time around I would have voted for him. I don't see eye-to-eye on everything with him, but he is very supportive of election reform. I figure we (Americans in general) have a better shot at getting decent policy made if we can get big business out of the government.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

26. I think McCain has alot of good and progressive thinking around him.....

As well, it is good to show issues that the full spectrum of idealogical difference that can agree upon.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

15. Gore is giving up the Democratic party

Let us vote him out and all the other Californian Democratics out of the Democratic Party that endorse Gavin Newson, Republican candidate. Just show how petty and spiteful the Democratic Leadership is..... don't blame the 3rd parties next year for the Democratic *%^&-up when Bush gets re-elected!!!!!!

[Doomsayer13]

16. Party Loyalty, an astounding concept

I'm sitting this election out, but it's going a bit far to call the Dems traitors for supporting the nominee of their own party. As if Greens had any say in our affairs, and you guys have the audacity to call Gore and the other CA Dems all Republican lite for supporting a candidate of our own party over a candidate of an opposition party? That's rich.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

18. Newson is not a nominee of the democratic party....

The California Democratic Party had their "preferred horse" get shot out of the race....now pettiness and bitterness will divide the "progressive" sector of the democratic party more and this could cause the Republican party the edge they needed for the winning of the state next general election. If 8%+ of the overall Democratics(that could be upwards of above 4% overall votes based on 2000 results) that are of the more inline as a "Progressive Democratic with hints Passive Green" that could be 457,966 votes that swing the vote against the "winner of the Naive Nine". I would think 1 out of 10 votes could fall under that label, but no greater. Plus some might say %^&*-it as well.
Not counting the ripple effect that could have in Oregon and Washington could be as dangerous. The Green movement out west is picking up steam. So only 4% of democratic voters getting disgusted by the DNC/DLC in Oregon would swing it to Republican; as well, Washington could swing either way. Nevada and Idaho are less of an issue.
So it is a very big deal...if these progressive voters are not welcome in the democratic party then what magic rabbit does dnc/dlc have for us to win with!!!!!!!

[OhioStateProgressive]

22. every Democrat that dogs Greens is suspect, to me(nt)

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Yep

I say vote for the guy or gal who most reflects your own beliefs. Granted there's still the issue of "pragmatism". Do I vote for the guy who has the best shot at getting elected or for who I like best?

In the case of Nov '04 I would definitely say go for the pragmatic choice and get Bu$h out. But in a neck and neck case like in San Fran I would say go with the guy who stands up for what you do, not the party he is affiliated with.

[OhioStateProgressive]

25. agree 100%(nt)

[Doomsayer13]

53. yeah...

Greens campaign that Dems are Republican lite, that Dems and Republicans are simply the same monster with two heads, and Democrats are supposed to take it? I'm sorry, there can be no double standard here, if the Greens choose to attack Democrats it is our right to respond.

[OhioStateProgressive]

58. not true at all

there are many Democrat in office, and running for office, that we (loose usage) have not one bad word about

and every Presidential Election for 30 years, people on the left have rooted for these types...but the moderates have NEVER allowed that candidate a fair shot at election (save for McGovern, and McGoverns loss must be contrasted by Nixons shady efforts to squelch him)

in 88 there was Jackson

in 92 there was Brown

you can't continue to marginalize us, we are voting left, no matter what..we WANT to vote for Left Democrats

[OhioStateProgressive]

23. ideological loyalty, a forgotten concept

[helleborient]

28. Ideological purity tends to breed autocracy and oppression (n/t)

[Ishkaboogl]

19. This is amazing

newsome is a democrat. gonzolaz is a green. end of story. no democrat should be criticized for supporting another democrat. did you really expect gore to come out and endorse gonzolaz? seriously, guys, newsome is as liberal as feinstein. he's no boxer, but then again, HE'S A F***ING DEMOCRAT. why in the world would nearly every major elected democrat endorse him if he was a republican? you guys have no logic. oh, yeah, its because most democrats are corporate whores who are really repub-lite and secretly want to pull the party as far to the right as possible in order to one day merge with the republican party and rule the country without political opposition. forgot about that.

seriously, guys, grow up. oh, and i'm from san francisco, so i know what i'm talking about.

[OhioStateProgressive]

21. if he isn't as liberal or progressive they can(nt)

[helleborient]

27. I'm very very tired of "Progressive" Democrats calling centrist Democrats

Republicans.

I really find it hard to see a number of "Progressive" Democrats as anything but reactionary and isolationist.

If you want your own party with a small tent...please, now, go join the Green Party!

Policy-wise, as far as social issues are concerned, I'm as leftist as most Greens and "Progressive" Democrats, but I think we need to live together in one nation...and most "Progressive" Democrats I read here seem not to agree.

Anything to the right of Dennis Kucinich is a Republican??? Oh please...go back and read a little history of this nation and the proud history of the Democratic Party.

I stick by my assertion that Dennis Kucinich himself would be appalled by this type of baiting and exclusionary politics.

All 9 of our Presidential candidates run a wide spectrum of ideas but what unites them is they all welcome those ideas within the Democratic Party...and that is admirable! I don't see the candidates calling each other Republicans.

As Gov. Dean says...we want to be proud to be Democrats again...and part of that is being inclusive not exclusive.

[OhioStateProgressive]

29. smart move

because of Bush we are coming back to the Democratic Party for this election...In return we want our voice represented Nationally...it is a fair trade, and it gets Bush out of office

but by pushing away the left, you are guaranteeing we on the far left will not stay with the party, and you won't win without us...plain and simple

[helleborient]

30. There's no surer way to push someone away...

Than continuing to call centrists Republicans and ask for ideological purity.

[Padraig18]

31. You're absolutely right, helleborient!

On most social issues, environmental issues, etc., I am as left as DK is, with a couple of exceptions, yet I am called 'DINO' and worse because of those issues I do stand to the right of DK on. I'm tired of this leftist-totalitarianist litmus test. The Democratic party is now, and has always been, a broad-based party.

[OhioStateProgressive]

32. by nominating and supporting moderates you inherently push us away

[Padraig18]

33. No.

You are choosing to leave. If the majority of this party are moderates, and the primaries yield a moderate nominee, how does that equal 'pushing us away'?

[OhioStateProgressive]

35. the majority of Germans thought killing jews was cool

does that mean it was right?


and, back on ignore you go

[Padraig18]

36. That's a ridiculous analogy.

:eyes:

PS--- I don't give a rat's ass whether you ignore me, or not.

[helleborient]

38. Points out an obvious problem with ideological purity...

If you embrace people with different ideas, it is well accepted in social psychology circles that you have a chance of avoiding the phenomenon known as "groupthink"...where everyone supports the same idea instead of thinking on their own.

Insisting we all pass left-leaning litmus tests does nothing to invigorate the party and come up with wide-ranging ideas of how to win elections.

It's arguable that ideological purity brought on the excesses of the Soviet Union and was instrumental in creating Nazi Germany.

[OhioStateProgressive]

39. there is right and wrong

politics is as simple as that

[helleborient]

41. No, unfortunately it's not...

The world is not a black and white world....there is plenty of gray.

Ideologues don't understand that...and in multiple cases have ended up slaughtering thousands of people as a result...like in Iraq, for example.

[OhioStateProgressive]

43. i disagree with you, therefore I am correct(nt)

[OhioStateProgressive]

42. deleted by user

[helleborient]

45. Look it up...I'll provide the link since you're being lazy...

http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/groups/groupthink.html

[helleborient]

34. Only if you insist on ideological purity...

Most all of the great Democratic presidents were to the right of Dennis Kucinich and were elected with a coalition from center to left.

[OhioStateProgressive]

37. yeah, and America has a system that has completely fallen apart

because of it

[helleborient]

40. Ok, I can continue to love the ideas of Dennis Kucinich...but this is

Exactly why I find it difficult to align with many of his supporters.

Attack the entire history of the Democratic Party - attack past Democratic presidents - insist on ideological purity to the left of the majority of Americans - and expect to win elections?

And expect to be embraced by any large segment of the population?

The main reason Ralph Nader totally lost me in 2000 - he was downright mean and nasty to everyone who didn't agree with him on everything.

I really can think on my own and I don't need an ideologue from left, right or center screaming at me about what I should think.

[genius]

48. So you consider the terminator of Medicare centrist. Feinstein

and your candidate Dean really go together. They should get married. Shelley's responsible for Arnold being governor and Bush being on the 2004 Calfiornia ballot. He proposed the bill to put Bush on the ballot. That same bill would not allow a Democrat to run for President if the Democratic Convention were after the deadline. It's interesting to see how Dean's people like the defectors to the Republican Party.

[helleborient]

50. Feinstein is working on Kerry's campaign...

I think she is a member of his consulting board or something like that.

So I guess you should be saying Feinstein and Kerry go together...I haven't seen him make any public statements against her vote.

[genius]

56. Obviously Feinstein occassionally slips and does something right

But business interests generally control her and it is rare that she makes a good move. Kerry and Feinstein are frequently on the opposite side when it comes to voting in the Senate.

[genius]

44. I'm a Democrat. Except for Gore, these people are traitors to our party.

Feinstein decided that she is rich enough that she could destroy Medicare for the seniors. Kevin Shelly is responsible for Arnold being Governor and Bush being on the California 2004 ballot. Pelosi voted for Homeland Security. Even Pelosi's daughter's an idiot who opposed a paper trail, when it was voted on at the California Democratic E-board. In fact, check out Pelosi's voting record in general. She defects to the Republicans too often. Why aren't any liberal Democrats besides Gore supporting this Newsorn candidate?

[helleborient]

46. Yep...calling Democrats idiots and traitors wins elections

And I would guess this is someone who would attack Howard Dean for angry speech.

[OhioStateProgressive]

47. the only reason i don't *hate* dean IS because of his angry speech

average people are followers, they need screamed at and told what is right

that may be the best thing Dean has going for him

I will gladly vote for Dr. Dean...by i still think he is a moderate that will lead us down the moderate trail, and leave more middle class people into the ranks of poverty

[helleborient]

49. Poverty under moderate Pres. Clinton dropped steadily...

And it started to grow again under Bush.

I don't understand your point about moderates.

[OhioStateProgressive]

51. Clinton cut welfare

and added more Privatized red tape to Health Care than EVER!

don't feed me the "status-quo" explanations...us on the far left KNOW what is going on here

[helleborient]

55. And your explanation for the decrease in the poverty rate? (n/t)

[OhioStateProgressive]

57. Clinton empowered a few people...let the Left empower them all!(nt)

[genius]

52. I guess you supported the end of Medicare too. Since you don't consider

voting for it to be an act of treason to the party. Also you apparently see nothing wrong with electronic voting with no paper trail, Homeland Security spying on Americans or an exception being made to put Bush on the California ballot. It's nice to know that this is where Dean supporters are coming from. I don't know if the Dean people will hijack our party next year. But if they do, I think it will be time to get the real Democrats to form a People's Democratic Party. The conservatives don't make up the majority of our party but they are good at taking power in it and it's time the real Democrats took our party back.

[helleborient]

54. On to ignore...

This post is such garbled garbage it isn't worth responding to...so many assumptions with so little knowledge.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

59. Defeat Newsom and send a message to the DLC that....

we WILL NOT BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED WHILE THEY PANDER TO ENRON!

[a_lil_wall_fly]

60. Yeah man

Take heed DLC/DNC......the day of demise might be closer than what it seems in the mirror.