Dean Seeks To Boost His Support Base

[helleborient]

http://nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=354&ArticleID=94283

Excerpts:


"NEW YORK – Former Vermont governor Howard Dean sought to stir the Democratic Party’s traditional base of blacks, Latinos and labor unions Sunday, arguing that his campaign for the party’s presidential nomination would give voice to their needs.

Too often, he said, national Democratic candidates wait until Election Day draws near to appeal to the party faithful. Instead, two months before the first party caucus in Iowa, he worked his way south through Manhattan, from a Baptist church service in Harlem to a major teaching hospital to a labor rally a dozen blocks from the World Trade Center site"

I found this particularly interesting:

"Dean repeatedly cited issues near to the heart of these constituencies, from health care to jobs and his opposition to the war in Iraq. Most polls show about 75 percent of black and labor voters opposed the invasion and occupation of Iraq."


Bears repeating - 75 percent of black and labor voters opposed the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

So...it seems Dick Gephardt is rather out of touch with labor.

[joefree1]

1. Straight talking works

The elite in Washington don't get it. People like Dean because he sounds earnest ...even when he bumbles.

I'm digging this guy more and more. Can't wait until my first meet-up next week.

[meegbear]

2. 75 percent?

Good thing Dean didn't vote for it.

Oh wait a minute, that's right, he's not in congress, but that doesn't matter.

[helleborient]

3. Looks like Kerry, Edwards, and Gephardt are out of step with

African-Americans and Labor, doesn't it?

[AP]

4. Only if they're single-issue (ie IWR) voters. And something tells me they

are not.

They probably care most about economic opporutnity which, oops, puts Edwards at the top of the list and Dean at the bottom.

[helleborient]

5. Yep, that explains SEIU and AFSCME and Edwards' lack of Union support

Hmmm...this analysis is seriously flawed it seems.

[AP]

6. Seriously flawed logic? Gep has the most union support by number of

union members and by number of endorsements, and, according to Dean, he's the biggest traitor on this issue.

Edwards has great support in the black community, and he voted for the IWR.

So, remind me where the logical flaw is?

[helleborient]

7. Proof of Edwards support? Polls? Links?

Dean's proof is in endorsements from the DC community level to national leadership.

You said the concerns of labor and African-Americans would put Edwards at the top of the list and Dean at the bottom.

And yet Dean has the support of head of the Congressional Black Caucus, Jesse Jackson, Jr., Sheila Jackson Lee, SEIU, and AFSCME.

Edwards support?

And Edwards labor support?


Hmmmm...yeah, I see your logic in Dean's lack of support.

[Sully]

8. It's all about character...

[Nazgul35]

9. hhhmmmmmm.....

Makes you wonder what Kerry supporters would've done if they had been running in 1992 instead of 2004.....

You're right...devoting your life to medicine is nothing compared to being a US Senator....you know what...screw you Mother Teresa!!!! You damn lay about!!!

This is a very weak argument...which might explain why Kerry trails Dean in Mass.....that's gotta sting a little....

How's about this for honor....don't take down the party with you just because you're not going to win the nomination.....show some honor and courage now....

edited for data (wrong percentages for poll)

[helleborient]

10. Does the Kerry campaign want to get personal??

Does the Kerry campaign want to deal with the "little dig" in Boston at public expense?

Does the Kerry campaign want to deal with jaw surgery?

Does the Kerry campaign really want to go down this path?

Howard Dean got a medical deferment..which is honorable until Kerry supporters insist on falsehoods.


This campaigning would have worked quite well alongside Republicans attacking Bill Clinton...oh, but Kerry recently said Clinton wasn't quite "prepared" to take office in 1992. Maybe he's a closet Clinton-hater.

John Kerry vs. the Democratic Party...going down in flames and trying to take the rest of us with him. Thanks.

[Sully]

11. I hear this all the time...

"John Kerry vs. the Democratic Party...going down in flames and trying to take the rest of us with him. Thanks."

But actually it is Karl Rove's wedgie-boy Dean that is vs. the Democratic Party! But hide your heads in the sand again! We haven't begun to fight! I've read the slurs you guys make about Kerry ALL THE TIME, here, your blog, the Kerry blogs and forums, everywhere you can poke your noses and I'm tired of your crying about Kerry "attacking" Dean too!

I just thought you should see what a REAL attack looks like, and again, it's Dean's own past and mouth haunting him! Nothing in there that isn't factual. And you guys really believe that Dean can win in the GE? Do you think that saying "You are so mean to attack us" will carry any weight with the Republicans? Bollocks!

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen!!!

[helleborient]

12. We're in the kitchen...

That's why we're winning...in Iowa, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, New Mexico, California...need I go on?

And the first campaign to publicly call Bush's campaign on digitally altering the State of the Union speech.

The first campaign out of the box responding to Bush's ad in Iowa.

I was a John Kerry supporter early last year, and he is nothing but a serious serious disappointment on the campaign trail...and he has lost more supporters than any other candidate since then.

Howard Dean is our best chance for victory by empowering EVERYONE...not just using personal wealth, or a quest for ideological purity.

This is the campaign of the people, by the people, and for the people.

[Sully]

14. So what you are saying is:

"That's why we're winning...in Iowa, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, New Mexico, California...need I go on?"

You haven't WON anything yet.

"And the first campaign to publicly call Bush's campaign on digitally altering the State of the Union speech."

Kerry called Bush on Yellowcake/Niger in SOTU and is endorsed by Joe Wilson!

"The first campaign out of the box responding to Bush's ad in Iowa."

What did you beat us by, a couple hours? Kerry's response is airing now too.

"I was a John Kerry supporter early last year, and he is nothing but a serious serious disappointment on the campaign trail...and he has lost more supporters than any other candidate since then."

I was a John Kerry supporter early last year, and he is looking great on the campaign trail...and he has gained many, many more supporters since then.

"Howard Dean is our best chance for victory by empowering EVERYONE...not just using personal wealth, or a quest for ideological purity."

Horse hockey! And probably disingenuous... considering that your entire premise about "winning" is based on internet fundraising, media hype and questionable polls. Dean is miserable on the issues, all over the place on his positions and vague in his vision. Lots of platitudes, slogans and pandering though.

"This is the campaign of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Don't make me sick, Dean supporters can't stand disagreement! Try it on the Dean blog! Just say I'm undecided about Dean but... and see what happens! And they cheat in online polls too. BTW that was a platitude.

[helleborient]

15. The usual hatred from Kerry supporters (n/t)

[Nazgul35]

21. so you admit to missinformation campaigns...

according to this post you said:

"Don't make me sick, Dean supporters can't stand disagreement! Try it on the Dean blog! Just say I'm undecided about Dean but... and see what happens!"

One can tell from you recent posts that you are anything but undecided towards Dean


"And they cheat in online polls too.

Now who's crying.....:evilgrin:

[Sully]

26. I don't admit to misinformation campaigns

But that IS what I hear from undecideds and other candidates supporters on the Kerry blogs and forum about the Dean blog.

I only posted once on the Dean blog (as a Kerry supporter) but I do read it once in a while, just to see what folks are saying. It isn't too pretty.

[MercutioATC]

13. I believe the point was...

Your choice of attacks was silly. Dean obtained a valid medical deferrment (not a disqualification, which is what he would have gone for if he was just making stuff up) for a medical condition that had been diagnosed years before. If you take the time to read about the condition, you'l see that it does NOT always prevent strenuous activity because the symptoms are not always present. Nevertheless, the selective service system still considers it a condition that warrants deferrment.

Fact #1: Dean had and has a back condition.

Fact #2: The condition was diagnosed prior to his induction medical.

Fact #3: Dean presented the paperwork to the medical examiner.

Fact #4: Dean was placed on deferred status. He still could have been drafted, but wasn't.

What could Dean have done differently? He could have LIED. He could have chosen not to mention his medical condition. Either it would have been caught my an examiner anyway, or he could have been drafted.

Suppose, for a moment, that the SSS grants deferrments and exemptions for a reason. Do you think they'd appreciate somebody trying to circumvent their system of rules? What if Dean's back HAD experienced problems in Vietnam (which is why it's a condition that demands deferrment in the first place. What if somebody had died because of the problems? Would Dean be a "hero" for lying to go to war or an idiot for breaking rules that are designed to save lives?

Show me proof that Dean lied about his condition. Anything else implies that you believe that Dean should have lied and risked the lives of other Americans just to fight in a war, against carefully deliberated rules.

[Sully]

16. Here is one fact for you:

Asked if he could have served if he really wanted to, Dean told the Times, "I guess that's probably true. I mean, I was in no hurry to get into the military."

He was also in no hurry to join the anti-war movement either.
It speaks to the man's character and I thought that my choice of attack was rather to the point and not silly at all. But If you didn't like that one, I've got as many of them as Dean has positions on the issues!

Since you liked it so much keep your eyes open for a few more!

[helleborient]

17. I'm sure the Kerry smear team has plenty more...

I'm fully confident in that.

[Sully]

18. Not a smear...

Just pointing out the bloody obvious to get it into your heads that Bush would cream your guy with this kind of thing if you beat Kerry (which you won't BTW).

I will tell you this I've seen Kerry called everything from a traitor to a wimp from you guys and I'm not sitting for it any more.

Just think of this little exchange as a thought experiment in what Dean will face in the GE!

Your candidate is UNELECTABLE! And I am fighting for my Liberty and for a candidate that REALLY stands up, and stands consistently for what I believe. And Kerry has a 20yr progressive voting record in the Senate. I KNOW how Kerry will work for a greater America! You guys just HOPE you know, and I'll be knackered if I can figure out how you guys keep up with all the flip-flops! What is Dean's position on Medicare today? I'm gonna need a scorecard to keep up!

[helleborient]

20. Then go out and campaign for him!

Don't waste your time here screaming at people.

Screaming at people and saying your going to "get it into your heads" is not going to change anyone's mind.

I'll be in Iowa in January for Dean...and I hope you're in Iowa or NH for Kerry...we need more people actively involved in the political process instead of just yelling at each other about it.

[Sully]

25. No problem

Just stirring up the hornet's nest a bit! I think I made my point though! And yes, the KerryPioneers site IS mine! I'm quite proud of it and there is not a word about Dean on it! I'm working on adding Ken Lay and Wally O'Dell (from Diebold) HAHA! I just haven't figured out how to animate their demise... I'm open to suggestions.

I have a fine sense of who the REAL enemy is and it's not HD or the Dems that's for sure! But for the time being you can't blame me for wanting to spark something lively!

And I stand by my statement about Howard's character. I think it's too weak to stand up to the Bush onslaught. This isn't about picking on each other, it's about deciding who can beat Bush!

Besides, JK is a better man for the job. And no poll will make me think any differently other than the ones that count - Starting January 19th in Iowa.

Oh and FYI I am very busy on the ground in Iowa along with several hundred other Kerry supporters from MN.

[helleborient]

29. Good for you!

And I'm being genuine...I'm much more interested in animated discussion with someone who is actually working in the real world as well...than otherwise.

[Sully]

36. Boy do you have that right bro!

The respect is mutual! Besides it is a lot more entertaining, energizing and eductional (you get your talking points down good!) to do "non-virtual" campaigning. It does make a supporter feel good about their candidate and our Democracy. Despite our differences, one way or another I want to see Bush back in Texas for good (or bad as the case may be)!

[drfemoe]

22. I don't know much about

Kerry's positions. I just hear him talk about Dean all the time.
All I know about him, really, is what his pioneers here at DU say about him.
There's nothing there that sounds like leadership.

[helleborient]

24. Effective graphic...

And goes with the 100 Days campaign statement...great things from Kerry.

I love your Hendrix quote, too!!!

[drfemoe]

39. thank you

no response from the Pioneers .. as usual.

[Nazgul35]

23. please explain to me how a guy...

who can't win the nomination of his own party is going to do any better?

I never understood the alleged logic of this argument....other than positioning themselves to say "we told you so"....as if they can ever prove their counterfactual....the failure of one candidate does not prove that another would have won....

Who exactly would have done a better job for the Democrats in the following elections? And how can you prove this?

McGovern 1972

Carter 1980

Mondale 1984

Dukakus 1988

Gore 2000

(please note that these are the elections where the primary rules we opperate under today were similar....going back further doesnt make any sense...)

[MercutioATC]

35. Your point? Of course he could have probably lied his way in...

It doesn't take away from the legitimacy of his deferrment.

I also don't feel that there's anything necessarily wrong with your character if you choose to neither lie to go to war nor become active in an antiwar movement. What he DID choose to do is become a doctor. I think THAT speaks to the man's character.

[w4rma]

38. In med school you have very little time for extracurricular activities.

And as a hospital intern you have very little free time also, with putting in the hours that interns put in.

[Nazgul35]

19. you know what your right....

on the post above you said:

"If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen!!!"

I agree....if Dean can't take heat he should get out....I think the complaint here is how weak the heat is....

So I would just say to you:

If you can't win the nomination, get out of the race!!!

So the Dean camp is a bunch of cry babies....well, better that than in denial....

[Sully]

27. About the back condition

One of my best friends served in the Army and was born with "Spina Bifida" a much more serious condition that Dean's. He was also part of the Army Ski Patrol when stationed in Germany, and he said skiing still causes him back pain, but he works through it.

Did Dean's bad back also prevent him from participating in the anti-war movement?

[helleborient]

28. If you wish Dean would have lied to the Army...

Then I guess you don't have any problems with any other items you call lies from Dean or any other candidates.

[Sully]

30. Do you mean about "Dean being against the war from the begining?"

"If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice." --Howard Dean, Feb. 2003

Again, his own words sneaking back to haunt him! Did the guy forget about lexis/nexis?

[helleborient]

31. That's cute...but you didn't answer the question/comment....(n/t)

[Sully]

32. That's the only lie I can think of right now.

But to answer your question, yes lying bothers me. I'm not lying and neither is Kerry. And it's NOT cute, it's a fact Dean said it and it does make him look disingenuous at best and a liar at worst.

Oh and no, he shouldn't have lied to the Army. But just because he had a medical deferment didn't prevent him from joining the antiwar movement, just as Kerry's combat service didn't prevent him and the VVAW form joining the antiwar movement. But Dean was hanging about in the rich folks playground for the duration. That's what I mean about character. And it underscores the differences between our candidates.

[helleborient]

33. Just as Kerry's leadership failure in the Senate with Bush in the

White House underscores differences. Allowing final passage of the $87 billion for Iraq on a voice vote - which by Senate history would indicate the Senate thought it was an unimportant vote? Failing to convince supporters of his campaign to vote against the Bush Medicare package?

Kerry was seemingly either voting for Iraq out of political expediency or playing political games with the Bush White House while thousands of lives hung in the balance in Iraq. The real liberals in Congress knew to vote against the Bush White House.

Same old arguments from both sides, I know....but here's the counter.

[Sully]

34. Dean's position agreed with Kerry's at the time

of the vote and Dean can say whatever he wants to now because he wasn't held to his position (by voting). Now if you were a Kucinich supporter, I would be forced to agree with your statement that the votes differentiate them, but not JK and HD.

[LA4Kerry]

37. Stop attacking Kerry over the vote!

This is exactly what will get GWB re-elected! Instead of blaming John Kerry for VOTING for IWR, why not try blaming GWB for ATTACKING Iraq?

Remember, our priorities are to send GWB back to his ranch next November, not help him to stay in the WH!!