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ATTACK OF THE BLUEBLOODS--DEAN-BUSH CONNECTIONS AND SIMILARITIES

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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:13 PM
Original message
ATTACK OF THE BLUEBLOODS--DEAN-BUSH CONNECTIONS AND SIMILARITIES
When you select someone to represent YOUR interests, it is a Good Thing to make sure that person has the same interests as YOU DO. Kucinich comes from the same background as me and as most Americans. Bush and Dean come from backgrounds quite different from Kucinich and myself, and Bush's and Dean's backgrounds are quite similar-- even eerily similar. That is one reason why I chose Kucinich as the man to represent me in the White House....

Look at the evidence and judge for yourself:



HYPOTHESIS: DEAN =~ BUSH

THE EVIDENCE:


From :http://www.counterpunch.org/colby02222003.html

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Meet Howard Dean. The Man from Vermont is Not Green (He's Not Even a Liberal) by MICHAEL COLBY For Vermonters who have seen Howard Dean up close and personal for the last eleven years as our governor, there's something darkly comical about watching the national media refer to him as the "liberal" in the race for the Democratic nomination for president. With few exceptions in the 11-plus years he held the state's top job, Dean was a conservative Democrat at best. And many in Vermont, particularly environmentalists, see Dean as just another Republican in Democrat's clothing.

As the son of a wealthy Long Island family (his father was a prominent Wall Street insider), <b> Dean's used to having his golden path well greased. </b> After dutifully attending Yale and then medical school, Dean looked for a state to launch both a private medical practice and a political career. He chose Vermont as much for its beauty as its lenient mood toward carpet bagging politicians, thus joining Brooklynite Bernie Sanders as a born again Vermonter.

Dean became Vermont's accidental governor in 1991 after Governor Richard Snelling died of a heart attack while swimming in his pool. Dean, the lieutenant governor at the time, took the state's political reins and immediately followed through with his promise not to offend the Snelling Republicans who occupied the executive branch. And Dean carried on with his right-leaning centrism for the next eleven, long years.

With his sights now set on the White House, the Dean team has been doing its best over the last year to polish up a mediocre gubernatorial record. They're also trying to position Dean as "the liberal" in the Democratic field so as to grab the much-coveted early primary voters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From http://www.citizinemag.com/politics/politics-0309_antibush_dean.htm


by R. McFadden Howard Dean describes himself as an "outsider" in his run to be elected US President in 2004. But months before the New Hampshire and Iowa primaries, this pretended outsider has already gathered more money than any other candidate (with more than $10 million in private donations) and he is the undisputed front runner to challenge George W. Bush to the presidential crown.


The Center for Public Integrity describes Howard Dean's blueblooded youth: Dean was born into a wealthy New York family in 1948. The oldest of four brothers and the son of a wealthy, conservative stock broker, he grew up in the Hamptons and the Upper-East side where he attended elite private schools. In 1967 he entered Yale University. While at Yale, Dean discovered that he had an innate sympathy for the civil rights movement and the plight of the poor. He steered clear of radical protests and student demonstrations, later saying that he “instinctively distrusted ideologues,” but he also came to oppose the escalating Vietnam War.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


From

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/981758/posts

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you were to pick a presidential candidate on the basis of social standing — and really, darling, who doesn't — you'd have to pick Howard Brush Dean III over George Walker Bush. The Bush lineage is fine. I'm not criticizing. But the Deans have been here practically since Mayflower days and in the Social Register for generations. It's true Bush's grandfather was a Wall Street financier, a senator and a Yale man, but Dean's family has Wall Street financiers going back to the Stone Age, and both his grandfathers were Yale men.

The Bush family properties were in places like Greenwich, Conn., and Kennebunkport, Me., which is acceptable, but the Dean piles were in Oyster Bay, on Hook Pond in East Hampton and on Park Avenue, a list that suggests a distinguished layer of mildew on the family fortune.

Again, I'm not suggesting the Bushes are arrivistes. <b> Howard Dean's grandmother asked George Bush's grandmother to be a bridesmaid at her wedding</b>, and she wouldn't have done that if the family were in any way unsound. I'm just pointing to gradations. <b>Dean even went to a slightly more socially exclusive prep school, St. George's, while Bush made do with Andover before they both headed off to Yale. </b>

On the other hand, both boys have lived along parallel tracks since they went out on their own. Both went through their Prince Hal phases. Bush drank too much at country clubs. Dean got a medical deferment from Vietnam and spent his time skiing in Aspen. Both decided one night that it was time to get serious about life and give up drinking. Dean was 32; Bush was 40.

....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Therefore DEAN =~ BUSH in many respects!


Q.E.D.




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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Therefore Ted Kennedy=Bush
Therefore Barbara Boxer=Bush

Therefore Al Gore=Bush

Therefore John Kerry=Bush

Therefore, ah, f**k it.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. FDR=Bush
:shrug:
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. silly argument...
therefore only african americans should represent african americans, hispanics, hispanics, etc....

are you going to add FDR and Kennedy to your list as well? Most Kucinich supporters compare him to RFK...so if RFK = Kucinich and RFK = Bush, than Kucinich = Bush.....

It is the policies and the electoral connection that matters...it was this same simplistic argument that allowed the repugs to push through minority-majority districts...the result of which was to create more repug safe districts and reduce african american and hispanic voters to one dem district.....and everyone wonders why the dems have abandoned minority issues....


really silly argument...Kucinich has so much more going for him on policy positions...try that....cause this isnt working...
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. god is this stupid
lets see-bush is a loser ,dean is a doctor, never mind this is stupid
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. Like FDR? Like Lincoln? Clinton? Truman? Kennedy? What's the point here?
The point here is, there is no point. There have been great presidents from privileged backgrounds, and lousy presidents from same. And there have been great presidents from underprivileged backgrounds, and and lousy presidents from same. So go with the person, and their vision, and understanding (and I write this from a very poor family background).
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Lincoln did his homework on a shovel
Clinton grew up poor too, and I don't think Truman was wealthy.

But I agree with your point.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Did anyone else see
that Johnson & Johnson heir's documentary on rich kids?

I mean, really really rich kids. Not just rich, but really rich.

Anyone? There were some interesting comments on what life was like when you were only exposed to the same people, the only 'new' people in the 'club' were only 'new' based on their recent transfer from another geographical location. In other words, new money people were not welcome.

Curious as to whether Boxer, Kerry, Gore, or FDR had family histories like Bush & Dean. I mean, just being rich doesn't make you a blueblood.

Not taking sides, just curious. Really don't know if the Roosevelts were rich for generations, or the Boxers, or the Kerrys, or the Gores. From what I've read so far, Gore really doesn't belong in this group. Do the others?
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I missed that BUT, Kerry, Gore, JFK and Roosevelt ALL came from
privileged blue-blood backgrounds.

Kerry's Forbes ancestors FOUNDED Skull and Bones at Yale in the 1830's. Their fortune came from the Chinese opium trade, according to many sources. Kerry is the richest man in the Senate (although this is due in part to his wife's money -- but he is rich in his own right)

Boxer???


Thing is --- none of these people made a lot of their fortune financing Hitler as Bush did (as far as I am aware).

THAT is the important thing.

Dean is WAY down the social ladder I believe from the Bushes and even the Gores.



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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Kerry's father wasn't rich
He didn't grow up rich. His education was funded by an aunt, not his parents. He worked in college because his parents really didn't have tons of money. He didn't have the life of Edwards or Kucinich, by any stretch, but he didn't really grow up totally blueblood either. His money came from inheritances later in life, and of course Teresa.
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a_lil_wall_fly Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes DK has alot of great things going for him...but
I think it truly and totally asinine to think that you are born in the upper classes that you can not be a true Democratic party member. If anything thier vision might not be as clear as some one from the lower classes.

Thou my dislike for Dr. Dean is this, go look at State of Vermonts Election website and see a disturbing trend of voting under the former Governer.

Registered Democratic voters that voted down sharply.
Registered Republican voters that voted up sharply.
Registered other party voters that voted went thru the roof.

Yes Dr. Dean did good in the Vermont on many accounts as well as some dubious ones as well. But the Democratic party can not lose that many voters at the national level too try too combat the true "axis of evil": Bush family, big oil and lobbyists.


On the issue of the gentleman from Ohio, most everything that is on his platform is awesome. But revoking NAFTA and WTO would be just like the idealogy of the isolationist policies of over a hundred years ago. It would be have a greater negative impact on various regions with in the USA over other areas. If he stated I would try to negotiate for x months then pull out with a seperate body working on a hard agenda to have in place to go on the date that was issued to deal with the repercussions of the USA pulling out. I would vote for him in a heart beat.

I think the gentleman from Ohio would pull together the Democratic party better then the gentleman from Vermont.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. on NAFTA and WTO
When DK says he wants to get the US out of NAFTA and the WTO, he's not saying that he wants to abandon international trade: quite the contrary. He wants us to revert to bilateral trade agreements (on a country-by-country basis) so that we can attach trade provisions to such things as worker rights, environmental protections, etc. In regards to trade, KUCINICH IS NOT AN ISOLATIONIST. He believes (like many of us do) that the current trade rules as proscribed by NAFTA and the WTO favor big corporations over the welfare of the workers, as well as the sovereign rights of nation-states to make their own laws.
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MrSoundAndVision Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. Negotiating trade deals is a bad thing?
Revoking NAFTA and the WTO wouldn't be an isolationist thing to do. Quite the contrary, regaining the ability to negotiate trade pacts in a bilateral manner will allow the United States to play an active role in the development of devepoling countries. For example, we'll be able to insist that the El Salvadoreans who made your shoes get paid a living wage to do it.

That's not isolationist, that's ENGAGING!
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. I could find no connection between Dean's famil;y and Hitler
although the Bush family fortune came, at least in large part, from their ties to Hitler and the Saudi royals.

And believe me, I looked. I tried to find a lot out about the Dean past and social connections. One of my specialties has been sociopolitical network analysis.

Andover is more exclusive than St. George's and is more of a spook heritage school too.


It Does appear that Dean's brother may have been an intelligence operative (and certainly the Bush administration is trying to hype that up and is playing politics with the remians and story of his brother's death in Laos). It also appears, at least to me, that Dean's father had some intelligence ties after WWII with China Air.

But there is NOTHING in the way of comparison between the Bush family history and fascism and Dean's family history.

Dean is a self made politician with hard-working roots (no one can ell me you can bluff your way through med school like Bush did Harvard's MBA program).

Dean's brush with the draft was during the lottery period and he did NOT fake a military experience and go awol.

ALSO, Dean's political role was more or less thrust upon him. He was a part time politician and full time doctor when he was thrust into the governorship in Vermont. He had a conservative constituency since he replace a Republican governor who died. He turned the state aroound and improved many many social service programs while making hard choices. Unlike Bush who made all bad easy choices and ran Texas into the ground.

Your analogies and comparisons are really really just plain completely off base. Tag. You're out.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. This thread ain't nuthin' but shit.
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a_lil_wall_fly Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Well too know what it is must mean that you are in the same enivorment
:D
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. What was that about Batboy and Hitler's gold?
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Who's batboy?
nt
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You don't know who batboy is?!?!


FEAR!
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. LOL... just my basic reference to Weekly World News
Which is where I think this analysis was cribbed from.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yawn
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thurston Howell III, oops, I mean Howard Dean III, of Park Avenue, NYC
...that is NOT who the working men and women of America need representing them in the WHite House. We need one of US in there.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Like a career politician?
Is that "one of us"?
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. How long do you have to live someplace to no longer be considered
of another place?
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. So we need a Hoover or a Nixon?
Herbert Hoover's father was a blacksmith, and he grew up in the lower middle class.

Richard Nixon's father was at times a laborer, carpenter and farmer, and young Richard worked in fields at the age of 10.

I really don't get your point.

By your reasoning, FDR and JFK were presidents we did not need.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. everyone knows this
it's been factored in. It's a factor for me, but not a deciding one, and I think you're blowing it way out of proportion.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. If anyone has Wealth and Democracy by Kevin Phillips on their bookshelf
read the introduction and then try to tell me you don't think this is an important issue.
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concord Donating Member (296 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Predjudice
Your arguments are simplistic and prejudicial. I suggest you look at a person's character and the quality of their actions, rather than "their background" before you judge them.

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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Try applying for a job as a scientist with a BA in English
....and see how far you get.

To get a job, you need the background and experience.

The President is supposed to represent the majority of Americans, not just the upper crust. Howard Dean III has no experience as an ordinary American. Dennis Kucinich does! While Howard Dean III was being chaffeured from his prestigious Park Avenue address to his upper crust prep school, Dennis Kucinich was attending was attending public school, while living in a variety of rented homes, and even living in the family car at times! While Howard Dean III attending Yale, courtesy of the family fortune, Dennis Kucinich worked his way through Case Western Reserve University.

Now, which man has the experience and background to represent the majority of Americans? I reject the proposal to hire Howard Dean III, formerly of Park Avenue, NYC, and recommend hiring Dennis Kucinich, formerly of GMC/Ford, and other various rented addresses.....
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Tell me sir...
How long has Dean been living in Park Ave, NYC VS living in Burlington, VT?

Your logic is stupid. Dean has been living in Vermont FAR longer than he has been in Park Ave, NYC, thus he has seen from BOTH sides -- from rich to poor, and even the middle too.

Hawkeye-X
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:34 PM
Original message
"give me the child, and I will give you the man"....
"....the fruit don't fall too far from the tree"


We are all the product of our backgrounds, and Dean's background is almost identical to Bush's background: it screams BlueBlood Privilege.

We need a President who has the right background, a background that will allow him to understand what the average America has to cope with.

If you are wealthy or upper class, then by all means, Dean or Bush is your man. But if you are average, then look for someone who will represent YOU!
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. I reject your argument
:thumbsdown:
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. What sound reasoning you have, Grandma (no message)
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. no reasoning required
your argument is absurd
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. So do Gep, Edwards, Clark, Braun and Sharpton
They all have middle- and lower-class backgrounds. Your point?
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-03 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
34. I'm locking this thread.
Flamebait.

punkingal, DU moderator
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