Which candidate will drop out next?

[wwwunspunmediaorg]

There are still a ton of candidates, and if you remove the non-serious candidates (Kucinich, Braun, Sharpton) you still have Dean, Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, and Gephardt. I think Edwards or Lieberman will drop one next...not sure which one first...what do you guys think?

[La_Serpiente]

1. Not Edwards

he is still pullling a lot of support. Maybe Lieberman, but he does have a lot of name recognition.

[xchrom]

2. except for lieberman

i hope none of them soon.
each in their own way are adding a lot to the debates -- i think the more mainstream dems may be starting to get a clue about rank and file dems and liberals of all stripes because of this.
this could break the monopolistic hod the dnc/dlc has had on democratic politics. time to open the windows guys and let some sunshine and fresh air in!
word of caution though -- the coporate infiltrators won't go down with out a wicked ass fight, and they will try to hide if they get an ass whooping.

[Melodybe]

3. As long as they all fall in line and give their support to the nom...

I don't care. I do think, howerver, that Lieberman should have dropped out a lond time ago.

[Lexingtonian]

4. Lieberman

A tight race with Gephardt for eighth place finish.

I really don't understand why people think all of them are actually in the running for the Presidency. My impression is that most of them are, like Bob Graham, running for Cabinet positions and other good federal appointments or national profile- few of them are predicately doing the stuff needed to win the nomination proper.

I suspect Gephardt and Kucinich would settle for Labor, Graham and Lieberman and Gephardt wouldn't mind being asked to be Veep, Edwards wouldn't hate you for making him AG, Clark probably wouldn't turn down State or Defense, CMB would deign take DHHS if begged, and Sharpton will perhaps not condemn you for asking him to chair the Civil Rights Commission or the like.

[mikehiggins]

6. Silly rabbit

Clark will either be President or return to private industry.

A cabinet post is only slightly less likely than a return to CNN.

[lastliberalintexas]

16. Yep

Serving your country in a cabinet post also doesn't pay as much as "private industry." :eyes:

What a silly thing to say. I think Clark would be honored to be Sec of Defense or State if he doesn't win the nomination. You sell your own candidate short.

[surfermaw]

25. Lexingtonian...Been Thinking along you line of thought

I have been thinking the same thing for some time, there is the cabinet right in front of us and ready and eager, or part of it anyway. What could be wrong with that?

[JohnKleeb]

26. Kucinich wouldnt be bad in EDU imo

[rbnyc]

5. What the fuck do you mean by non-serious?

I'm so sick of this! All these candidates are serious about running, and all their supporters are serious about supporting them. We need to shape reality so that the world we want is reflected in the polls, not let the earliest polls shape the future of reality. Whether a candidate who is currently at the top of the polls or one who is currently at the bottom gets the nomination, we still have to work hard and get out the vote. Trying to access the chances of a candidate at this stage, and letting those perceived chances determine a candidate's overall viability is an entirely passive and lazy way of being engaged in one's civic duty, and frankly I think it SUCKS!

[JohnKleeb]

7. Hey Rene, amen to that my fellow Kucitizen

People wait to a primary to happen, :eyes:

[LWolf]

8. Go go, Rene!

There is no candidate more serious than Dennis Kucinich about the future of our nation.

And reality is what we make it. We can defeat ourselves. We can give up before the race is finished. If we don't vote for the man we think has the best message, the best record, and would be the best leader for our nation, it doesn't matter who we nominate; we've already conceded defeat.

I do not concede defeat. Defeat is not inevitable. I believe that America is ready for Dennis.

[JohnKleeb]

9. Arent you sick of these Wolf and Rene

Frankly I am. I think theys afraid we gonna do well in Iowa or whereever, and that will make him a more viable and gasp electable candiate in the eyes of more people.

[douginmarshall]

10. Kucinich?

Kucinich is not going to be elected President and that's what this is about. I believe in a lot of what he says but he is not the leader I want in a crisis. We need people like him to stay in Congress where he can continue to fight for all of us.

There is a huge difference between believing in the policies and believing in the person. His plan for Iraq would get him crushed in November and would be a disaster.

[LWolf]

12. There is a difference between

the policies and the person. Especially in politics!

They come together in Dennis Kucinich. His policies reflect who is his. He walks his talk. He is the leader I want for our nation. I like the way he handles the issues. I like his plan to get us out of Iraq. I like the way he goes after issues other elected representatives avoid.

I have never "believed in" a politician before. Ever.

I believe in Dennis Kucinich.

[dweller]

13. go check your

magic 8 ball again doug, and start scouting a private sector corporation for clark to take over next year.

Kucinich is gaining support daily and is in the running for the long haul. And that's what this IS about.

dp

edit: be sure to check: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. As far as I'm concerned, Kucinich is the MOST serious candidate

He's the only one who goes beyond reacting to the Republicans and forges a vision of his own.

[Frodo]

22. Wrong!

Look, I've been a regular negative viewpoint on Kucinich because I consider him insufficiently experienced to be President.

BUT you've got it all wrong when you say "he is not the leader I want in a crisis" of "There is a huge difference between believing in the policies and believing in the person"

His views and policy statements fit well within the Democratic party and he would have lots of support if he was Governor of Ohio instead of one of eighteen House members from Ohio.

You can't just say "I believe in a lot of what he says" and then say he doesn't have leadership skills since he is often the FIRST or ONLY one saying what he says... if you agree with him then, by definition, he should be a leader to you.

[cyclezealot]

64. If not president best role is head of Progressive Caucus.

Yes, I agree Kucinich stiffled in some Cabinet post,where he is told to keep quiet, not to ruffle the feathers of contributors is a waste of his talents..
As to making judgement calls in crisis, I think his intellect, ego, and judgement is exactly what we need. I would fear very much for the testresone levels of someone like Clark..

[cyclezealot]

65. internationalize

I hope you are not correct about the intellectual abilites of the American people...His plan is the only one possible that will bring about an internationalization of this mess.
We need a total cleansing of Bush's business conflicts in Iraq, before the world community will do anything but think the US should stew in its' own juices.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Like it or not, Kucinich, Braun, and Sharpton are largely a sideshow

They may add some entertainment value to the debates, but they have shown that they are unable to attract the volunteers, money, and public support necessary to be considered serious candidates.

[Frodo]

27. The difference is that Braun and Sharpton are

Not even legitimate candidates.

Sharpton is NOT a valid candidate and my assumption is that CMB got into the race to keep Sharpton from taking a chunk of the African American vote away from the democratic Party. She never raised any real money or seemed prepared for the debates. I think she is jsut there as a foil to Sharpton.

Kucinich is no straw-man, and is not there to boost his own ego. He IS a "non-sacndidate" in the sense that he can't win the election, but that's drastically different from those candidates who are not even there to influence policy.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. He is probably running to boost his national profile

He wants to be the next Paul Wellstone. He knows that he has no chance. He's been in politics long enough to know that.

[goodhue]

29. No he believes he has a chance

If folks follow their hearts DK believes he will be a "surprise" in Iowa. I was down there in Decorah and Cedar Falls on Friday, and Dennis believes the Iowa race is still wide open with as many as 75% still undecided. His experience in politics is that he has always been written off as having no chance but yet sometimes surprises.

Remember he had no chance the first time he ran for city council. He lost that election and ran again for city council the next time and won. He believes that if he perseveres and has the support of the people, anything is possible. His belief is sincere. He knows he has a chance if folks give him a chance, which he invites folks to do.

Regardless, DK will be in the race until the convention.

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. My point exactly

Regardless, DK will be in the race until the convention.

This thing will be wrapped up long before that. But Kucinich will not drop out. Only candidates who thought that they had a chance do that. Once they realize that is not going to happen, they drop out. Kucinich is running knowing that he is going to lose. Alan Keyes did the same thing in 2000.

[goodhue]

31. Iowa fluid

This is the 3/4 factoid that Dennis was trumpeting on Friday . . .

http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/22685215.html

The poll contains ample evidence that the race in Iowa remains fluid.

One-fifth of likely caucus participants are uncommitted or unsure about which candidate to support.

Among those who favor a particular candidate, three-fourths say they could still be persuaded to support another Democrat contending for the presidency, while one-fourth say their minds are made up.

[rbnyc]

53. He's running because we asked him to. (nt)

[Freddie Stubbs]

60. People asked Bob Graham to run too

But apperently not enough people. He got the message.

[rbnyc]

61. He made his decision for his reasons.

Not every case is the same.

I kind of miss him, too.

[Freddie Stubbs]

70. He concluded that his "dreams for the presidency are not attainable."

He took a realistic view of how the primary campaign was unfolding, and concluded that he had zero chance of winning.

[rbnyc]

71. He must have also thought that he had nothing to add by running.

Not everyone comes to the same conclusions in the same way. I think you're just being difficult.

[rbnyc]

51. “entertainment value”

You might as well just come over here and spit down my throat. Seriously, are you trying to be hurtful?

I’m working hard for Kucinich because he’s saying things that need to be said. He’s not adding entertainment value, he’s adding my values.

I do believe that Dennis Kucinich has a chance because everyday more and more people commit to working for his campaign and these are people who, rightly, are unwilling to let the pessimism of others define reality, but prefer to define it for themselves in the image of their own best vision.

But even if he does not get the nomination, I know that I’m doing the right thing contributing to the growth of the Kucinich campaign because someone has to stand up and tell the truth. Someone has to say that the PATRIOT Act is toxic, and that War needs to be replaced, and that NAFTA is shit, and that BUSH is a liar, someone who isn’t tempered by a marketer’s reverence for polls and and someone who doesn't have that that way politician’s have of weaving a loophole into every position statement. Someone has to be real. Someone has to represent actual change. Even if he doesn’t get the nod, someone has to be there to keep the seat warm for the world we actually want.

This goes far beyond “entertainment value.” That characterization is extremely disrespectful.

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Somtimes the truth hurts

You do realize the Kucinich is full of it when he says that he isn't a long shot, don't you? By all means, continue with your support in Kucinich. But please don't delude yourself into thinking that the outcome will be anything other the evidence suggests that it will be: someone other than Kucinich as the nominee.

[rbnyc]

62. What I realize is that things are more likely to become true...

...if you say that they are possible, and less likely to become true if you say they are impossible. What I realize is that while reality shapes perception, perception also shapes reality and if you want to create change you have to change not only how you act in the world, but how you see the world. What I also realize is that if everyone gives up their values during primary season, what are the primaries for? Why do we even vote if it's all a forgone conclusion? My support of Kucinich communicates my values to party leaders whether he wins or not. My work contributes to the elevation of our political dialogue whether he wins or not. I've acted according to my values and have rejected fear which makes the world a better place, whether he wins or not.

Your language is callous and rude. That's why I asked if you were trying to be hurtful. You're overall point of view I simply think is unhelpful.

:hi:

Edit: typo

[Freddie Stubbs]

72. Politics is a rough sport

We don't always get what we want. I realize that some poeple are working their tails off for Kucinich. I am glad that you are aknowleding that you are working for him to affect the debate and not laboring under the illusion that he is a viable candidate. But I am not sure that your efforts will be all that successful. The end result may be the perception that a very liberal candidate can't even win the Democratic nomination let alone a general election.

[funkyflathead]

11. Moseley-Braun n/t

[mndemocrat_29]

14. They are all in it now until the primaries

My guess is that Gephardt will be the next to drop out, after he receives second to Dean in Iowa.

[OhioStateProgressive]

15. my guess is Gephardt, after he finishes third behind Dean, and...

Kucinich

[diamondsoul]

18. "non-serious" HOW exactly?

Man you people just kill me with that bit of drivel.

Show me ONE other candidate who publicly referenced the PNAC before Kucinich. Show me ONE other candidate who organized opposition to the IRW before Kucinich (and don't say Dean because he never participated in protests or opposition rallies, he just told a bunch of people his opinion.). Show me ONE other candidate who challenged Diebold directly before Kucinich. Show me ONE other candidate who makes the effort to do right by the American people every single time, even when his effort is doomed by a stronger opposing party in Congress. THAT is SERIOUS LEADERSHIP. THAT IS A SERIOUS PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

[JohnKleeb]

19. on IWR

Not only that he was instrumental in congress with Nancy Pelosi in fighting against it. I notice that Kerry and Edwards followed Kucinich's lead on Diebold, those two did the same on the 87 billion. Goes on. Kucinich is a "serious" candiate, they all are.

[OhioStateProgressive]

20. Dennis is the one "framing" the debate

even many non Kucinich supporters are now realizing this to be the case

[JohnKleeb]

21. yeah thats true

[wwwunspunmediaorg]

45. Jesus Christ...

People will have to accept, anyone like Dennis Kucinich isn't going to win. I'm sorry. Tell yourself all you want that he will, but it won't change anything. Anyone who says stuff like this:

Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self. The energy of the stars becomes us. We become the energy of the stars...Our vision of interconnectedness resonates with new networks of world citizens in nongovernmental organizations linking from numberless centers of energy, expressing the emergence of a new organic whole.

Last year Kucinich spoke at an event hosted by the Institute for Cooperation in Space. The Institute's president, who had earlier arranged to have LSD guru Timothy Leary's cremated remains blasted off into space in 1997, is now working for Kucinich. She says she's "doing everything I can because I think he is the only chance we have got to enter into a new paradigm, or otherwise we are all going to die."

Kucinich may be a smart man and an intelligent congressman, but he will never be president. I'm sorry. End of story.

[JohnKleeb]

47. Can we have primaries first then tell people to drop out, christ

Its really condescending and I know things are slim but can we have primaries first then gloat, its condescending to people who support these candiates.

[OhioStateProgressive]

49. people DON'T have to accept what they are told!!

and who the f_ck are you to say who will and won't be President?

[rbnyc]

52. I heard someone say on C-Span the other day...

...that Hillary Clinton is too far left for America. Am I supposed to accept that too?

The primaries are designed for voters to communicate their values to party leaders. To tell Kucinich supporters to pack it in before the primary season is over is like trying to edit something before you've let the words flow onto the page. You might come up with something, but it won't be good.

Anytime one is brainstornming toward an optimum solution, one must start with the broadest base of possibilities from which to narrow.

You, my friend, are narrow too soon.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[no name no slogan]

23. Dennis Kucinich is SERIOUS, like a heart attack

DK is was the FIRST candidate who was DRAFTED to run for president-- unlike all the others except Clark.

He is also the only candidate who is talking SERIOUSLY about the problems that ail this country: our crumbling infrastructure, our warmongering abroad, universal health COVERAGE (not just universal health 'insurance'), and saving American jobs from predatory corporations practicing so-called "free trade".

If that's not serious, I don't know what is.

:eyes:

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. His issues may be serious, but his candidacy isn't

He hasn't raised a signigicant amount of money, and more importantly, he has been unable to rise above 4% in any public opinion polls (with the lone exception being his home state).

[ThirdWheelLegend]

34. Integrity, ideas and action

That's serious enough for me.
I prefer honesty and action to rhetoric and money.

TWL

[a_lil_wall_fly]

38. Yeppers...

I think that is an issue that DK will gain strenght on more that others.

[Freddie Stubbs]

74. Appernently not that many other Democrats have bought your arguement

[Desertrose]

35. Freddie ,Freddie, Freddie....

you keep saying this and maybe you'll convince yourself...

... for those who have a clue...they know this election is about so much more than money and phony polls.

but hey, you just keep on believing what they tell you and then you'll be juuuust fine....stay away from the blue pill...or was it the red one...never could remember.

Some people just can't wake up.....

Peace & truth
DR

[Freddie Stubbs]

36. Which phony polls?

Is there some big conspiracy between broadcast TV, cable TV, newspapers, and universities? All of these entities are conducting polls, and they are all pretty consistant in one thing: Dennis Kucinich is, like the Orlando Magic, stuck in the celler.

[Desertrose]

41. conspiracy or no...do you believe all that the broadcast news

cable TV , newpapers & universities tell you???

Aren't these the exact same entities that told us there were WMD in Iraq and that Bush won and a few other interesting stories????

and about the polls...of course they are completely unbiased and accurate...well if they tell you what you want to hear about Dean of course....they can never spin them ot slant them or out and out make them up, now can they? if it isn't truth based...its phony, isn't it?

Haven't you learned anything from your time here on DU???

The media is bought & sold...you wanna belive it all? Fine-your choice.
Just don't expect me to buy into it!

Pece
DR

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Universities are not part of the media

So you are saying that all of these entities (including academia) are working together to push Howard Dean as the nominee?

Sure I know we can't always trust the polls. Like thos polls in CA that showed that Davis was going to be recalled and Arnold would be elected? Like the polls that showed a close Presidential election in 2000? Even Kucinich is not disputing his low standing in the polls (only making excuses).

And my time here at DU has taught me something. Some people will believe all kinds of wild conspiracy theories (Bush had Wellstone killed).

[Desertrose]

44. I am saying money controls many things

in this country.

Universities get a lot of their funding from.........?
Many are state universities and get lots of state/federal money...it is getting to the point we are afraid to speak out in this country...this goes way beyond Dean.

Do I think that for some reason Dean is currently favored ? YES.
Do I think they go out of their way to "dissappear" Dennis. YES.
We have to ask ourselves why. The money/power interests serve only themselves...certainly not the people. Pretty obvious.

You see Dennis as a very different figure than I do- same with Dean- fine. ALL I would ask is that you look beyond these images as to what is really going on in this country....it is about so much more than Dems winning...it really really is.

You are quick to label things you don't want to look at or consider as conspiracy theories..a safe way to eliminate them...doesn't mean there may not be something to them.

Guess this goes to the "critical thinking" skills some are talking about again in the MR...we need to use them and above all...keep a balance in all things.

I've been around a few years and have seen and heard things I never would have believed possible...that have turned out truer than I ever dreamed.....

Just keep an open mind ...
Peace
DR

[Freddie Stubbs]

63. Private universities do polling also

So who is giving the orders for these universities to cook the polls for Dean? This would be more than a simple conservative bias, since they would be propping up a particular Democratic candidate. If they went with the most conservative Democrat running, Lieberman would be leading in every poll. Who is telling them to back Dean?

And why isn't kucinich speaking out about these biased polls. His, as well as all of the other campaigns must be doing polling, so they must know that the polls are bogus. Why is he silent on this issue? Why the cover-up?

[OhioStateProgressive]

73. luckily i live in Ohio, where our polls aren't jaded(nt)

[Tinoire]

58. The phony polls Clark supporters keep freeping

Like this one: http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/6110.html

Or this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=849826#851523

46. I'm shutting this down.


Our server logs indicate that we've had an influx of new registrations from at least one clark website who logged on to vote in the poll.

I want to say welcome to all of you -- I'm impressed by your enthusiasm. I hope you'll stick around. But in the future I'd prefer if you avoided freeping our polls.

I have instructed Elad to program a new function so that this will no longer be possible.

---

I have tons more if you like.

[Freddie Stubbs]

75. Look at the non-online polls

Dean is leading in virtually every one of those. The online polls are fairly easy to manipulate becuse the people participating in them select themselves. Good scientific polling the sample is chosen at random.

[NNadir]

33. Clearly Kucinich is winning. He's sweeping aside all opposition.

Nearly every democrat on the planet, and some not on the planet are supporting him. Every Green too. Most Republicans. Needless to say 100% of independents also want him.

The polls are just numbers. We don't need no stinking numbers.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

37. Non-serious candidates????

Well I hope that Kunnich and Sharpton stays in til the end so a dominant candidate can not truly use the term of progressive democratic in his campaign.
Well I hope that Sharpton and Bruan stays in til the end so a dominant candidate has to work twice as hard on issues within the Afro-African and other minority issues.
Well I hope that Kunnich, Lieberman and Kerry stays in til the end so a dominant candidate has to be more dilagent on foriegn policy issues.
Well I hope that Gephardt stays in til the end so a dominant candidate has to work on a better farm and agriculture platform.
Well I hope that Kunnich and Kerry stay in til the end so a dominant candidate has to have the best enivromental platform.
Well I hope that all of them stay in til the end so a dominant candidate has to have a very solid urban renewal and education platform.

There is no one of the nine that are a non-serious candidate...if anything all nine have weaknesses..some much larger than others!!!!!!

[9119495]

39. Didn't Braun fail to get matching funds paper work in time?

I think that is a sign she is next to go--perhaps even before the primaries.

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. Correct

One candidate still trying to qualify in recent weeks, Carol Moseley Braun, was wrapping up her paperwork Monday and did not expect to make the deadline. That means she would get her first government payment in February; Braun's campaign hopes for about $300,000 then.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/politics/7389413.htm

[LuminousX]

43. All but one... okay, that is just me being giddy over the latest news.

[leftbend]

46. Serious, really ,really serious!

There is no candidate more serious than Dennis Kucinich. There may never be a more serious election. People need to get serious and look at the real leader ...Kucinich..seriously.
Just tired of Kucinich being called non-serious.

[mandyky]

48. I think Kerry & Lieberman

will drop out if they don't do well in NH.

[eissa]

50. After Gore's endorsement

it has to be Lieberman (finally!)

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

54. Non-Serious?! *ahem*

Kucinich is hardly "non-serious." If anything, he is far more serious and sincere than most of the others.

I also do not apply the term "non-serious" with Sharpton or Braun- they are both legitimate candidates.

I actually think Kerry is on the way out. Kucinich keeps gaining support and winning people over- he is not anywhere near "dropping out" of the race.

President Kucinich, get used to the sound of that. He's going all the way.

I am looking forward to the big-assed party after we oust the pretzel-dunce! :party:

[rbnyc]

55. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

Thanks for your post.

[Bucky]

56. My prediction: no one big drops out before NH

Really. Gore's imprint on Dean only solidifies Dean's frontrunner status. There really is an almost perfect five-way tie for 2nd place. Each of the antiDeans has his case and strong points and logical strategy. True, Gephardt and Kerry will fizzle fast and hard when they lose in their neighboring states. But Lieberman, Edwards, and Clark have always been gearing their campaigns around expected poor showings in these first two states.

The tactical error they all made, frankly, was in not contesting DC and making that the show-place primary. It's non-binding, of course, and the DNC totally hates DC for doing this election. But it was the one place where a surprise strong showing could have upstaged the headlines in the largely known and well-choreographed races in Iowa and New Hampshire.

[wwwunspunmediaorg]

66. I'm sorry Kucinich supporters...

but some guy named Lyndon H. Larouche Jr has more campaign money than Dennis does. That is really bad.

[OhioStateProgressive]

67. hmm...i wonder if he will go to Prison, like the last itme...

he had alot of money

LaRouches campaign finances can not be trusted

[wwwunspunmediaorg]

68. yea

that was the wake up call to Pat Buchanan to tell him that his political career was over. When a criminal that no one has heard of beats you in a few states, you gotta move on.

[OhioStateProgressive]

69. most people have heard of Lyndon LaRouche

seeing as how he has ran for President since 1976

LaRouche is a Douche...not even sponsored as a real candidate


Despite your prejudices against what is right and correct...Dennis will do well

deal with it

[a_lil_wall_fly]

76. OSP.. very true

LaRouche has scratched for his little slice of the vote in every election that he has run...his campiagn is just as valid as the Socialist Party, Green Party, Libertarian Party all parties have validation..as I stated before..some campaign have bigger or small problems getting out their platform...... IT IS LACK OF UNBIASED MEDIA OUTLETS.