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Doscientos Mes - Contrary Investor - August 2008

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:15 PM
Original message
Doscientos Mes - Contrary Investor - August 2008
http://contraryinvestor.com/mo.htm

The above link will change once the September article is current, you can always scroll down to the bottom of the link for this article.


"Set against the magnitude of credit cycle issues of the moment that indeed have very meaningful implications for what will be the reality of domestic economic outcomes ahead, questions have arisen as to whether we are now facing a relatively run of the mill bear market for equities or perhaps a bear of generational proportion. The thought has clearly made the rounds that the US equity bear market started in early 2000 was simply interrupted to the downside in 2002/2003 by incredible domestic monetary and credit cycle stimulus, as was truly exemplified by the literal generational bubble that was blown in US residential real estate prices, acting to lift both the financial markets and economy itself for a time. Of course no one knows in advance what financial market behavior and price trajectory will be ahead, but we do hope there are some signposts that may be helpful in guiding us as to potential ultimate downside severity. The bottom line is that big time bear markets really do indeed come along maybe once in a generation. They are infrequent by nature. By this, we're really referring to the devastating bears. You know, the ones that can change lives, destroy fortunes, and generally have investors swearing off equities forever. As investors in the current generation, we've clearly been conditioned over the last three and one half decades to view equity market corrections as opportunities. For the bulk of American equity market history, this has indeed been the case. But every once in a while, it's different. Every once in a while, we hit a generational event.

Before going any further, we have absolutely no way of knowing if we've embarked on a big time bear. A big multi-standard deviation event. We just thought it topical to at least address the unthinkable as simply one possibility in a number of outcomes. As we've preached far too many times over the years, the key to successful investment management is risk management. And that quite simply means we need to have a game plan for all potential market outcomes. Although this is far from a pleasant thought, we're simply contemplating how we might identify "the big one", if you will, if indeed that is to occur at all. Sincerely, the reason we are addressing this rather unpleasant thought is that these types of devastating episodes often coincide with once in a generation financial market or real world events. In the 1930's, the devastating equity bear was accompanied by the peak of a generational credit cycle, ultimately leading to the reality of economic depression as reconciliation played out. In Japan during the late 1980's, the equity peak was accompanied by not only by the obvious equity bubble, but also a generational bubble in real estate valuations driven by their own credit cycle mania of sorts, likewise leading to Japan's own version of a "contained depression" in economic activity in the aftermath of the bubble peak. Without attempting to sound melodramatic, at the moment and although intertwined in nature, the US is facing both potentialities - a possible generational credit cycle peak, and a generational bubble in real estate that is now deflating. We told you this was not going to be pleasant, didn't we? The following chart chronicles the credit cycle dating back to the early 1950's. Just as an FYI, the peak in the 1920's was estimated to have been 270%. We're just a touch beyond that at the current time, no?


...........So as we move ahead in our present circumstance, we suggest using the 10 year moving average of S&P price in conjunction with the relationship between the S&P and its 200 month moving average to perhaps signal us as to levels of true generational risk in both the financial markets and real economy. Remember, what we have presented in this discussion is interpretive art. We're simply trying to identify the appropriate rhythm of historical experience against which to view the current cycle. We know US credit cycle issues of the moment are incredibly important. We have called them generational in character in our discussions for literally years now. The advent of economic and financial market globalization is incredibly meaningful change. From a demographic standpoint, we have the baby boomers on the cusp of theoretical retirement at the exact time the ten year moving average of equity price only returns is as low as anything we have experienced in close to a generation. And we know the boomers are going to need to at least partially liquidate the financial assets they have accumulated along the way (inclusive of pension assets) to fund retirement lifestyles they believe they deserve. From our standpoint, we believe the multiplicity of issues converging at the moment are far from routine. They are far from cyclical. This is secular in terms of convergence. Again, we warned you this perhaps venture into the dark side would not be fun at all. We simply believe that in cycles such as we now find ourselves, having a sense of the very big picture is quite important. We have no way of truly knowing what lies ahead. Plenty of guesses? You bet. No matter what the probability, we just want to make sure we've at least thought through and are prepared to act relative to any potential outcome. After all, the last time we checked, luck favors the prepared."



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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, so many words to say pretty much not jack shit
:shrug:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Of course that is why I posted the article...
because it says nothing.

:eyes:

"...Before taking even one step further, we'll be the first to admit that this type of analysis is art, not science. That being said, as per the chart above, it has been very rare to see the S&P within roughly 20% of its 200 month MA. Very rare. As you can see, it happened for literally three months in 1970, but then not again until it was ready to plunge below the 200 month MA in 1974. Was the 1970 three month breach of the 20% line a warning? After the period of financial market and real world economic turmoil we shaded in from November of 1973 through June of 1980, the S&P breached the 20% barrier one last time in 1982 as if to bookend the period of financial market and economic pain, likewise the reversal back up heralding the major equity bull and prosperous economic period to come. Since 1982 right up until the present, the S&P 500 has never again been even 20% away from its 200 month MA. So can we suggest that when/if the S&P is 20% or less from its 200 month MA, we need to prepare and perhaps anticipate a less than pleasant forward outcome? As we look back across historical experience, we believe that 20% line is a warning bell to be heard. As you can see, not even at the equity market lows of 2002/2003 did the S&P breach the 20% line to the down side. Remember, we're looking for generational warning bells here. As the chart shows us, at what were the major lows of the S&P in late 2002/early 2003, the S&P remained 23.8% above its 200 month MA. Today that number is just shy of 29%, with the S&P having lost nowhere near the nominal top to bottom experience of 2000 through 2002. Point blank and germane to the current market environment, IF the S&P were to come 20% or less away from it's 200 month MA (which currently stands at 982, but is moving higher every month) anywhere ahead in the current cycle, we'd have to think long and hard about a potential full court press in terms of risk management.

Let's step back again one more time for some long dated perspective. One more time, from 1920 to present here's a look at the same data from the chart above spread over close to nine decades. We've circled in red the occurrences of a breach of the 20% line we discussed directly above. Outside of the periods we described in the chart above, the only other extended occurrence of a down side breach of the 20% line came during a six month period in 1949. Conceptually as was the case in 1982, was this also a bookend to the entire depression period? Heralding the big equity bull and real US economic expansion to come in the 1950's, as was the minor breach in 1982? The final retest? It sure looks that way to us. As always, historical precedent has an uncanny way of rhyming....


....Of course the very important issue of the moment is our present circumstance. NEVER since the early 1980's have we even been near the zero line for this indicator. Even at the equity market lows of 2002/2003, this 10 year moving average rested near 100%. But as of right now, the number is approximately 14%. Without reaching for melodrama, it will not take much nominal dollar downside from here to push this into negative territory. If that indeed comes to pass, it would be yet another indicator of important historical magnitude suggesting we batten down the hatches in generational fashion. It will be strongly suggesting meaningful economic upheaval has arrived, if indeed equities have retained their character as being a meaningful leading indicator for the real economy. You can see that in the aftermath of the historical peaks in this indicator (1920's and 1950's), it ultimately fell below zero in rhythmic fashion before the long cycle bottomed. We'd have a very hard time saying we're not in the process of tracing out the same behavior ahead in the current cycle, given that the prior peak in the late 1990's/early this decade was a record number of price extension to the upside."



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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. WHAT'S IT LIKE AT THE TOP? .... February 2000
http://contraryinvestor.com/moarchive2000/mo020800.htm

"...We're using our little analogy here to point up two concepts we believe are important in today's market environment. "What's it like at the top?" is the question of the moment. The second "eye of the needle"/Hillary Step analogy can be likened to investors being fully loaded in the tech and Internet names. There's a huge crowd at the summit. Can everyone descend successfully as storm clouds approach? The Hillary Step dictates that only those who leave well ahead of the crowd have the chance to avoid the bottleneck...

...The Cisco Kid...We guess CSCO's market cap having increased about $60-70 billion over the last month or so was just a warm up. It summarily tacked on another $20 billion in after hours antics after reporting one penny better than almighty expectations. Think about this. The collective market cap of MSFT, CSCO and GE now approximates roughly $1.5 trillion - about 10% of the entire value of the total equity market. Like we said, the Hillary Step will ultimately be unforgiving. Completely unforgiving. Better enjoy the ascent happy shareholders, because you definitely aren't coming down...alive."



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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. The very idea....
... that moving averages or any other such technical crap has any value in interpreting where an economy driven by actual events (credit bubble) is going is ludicrous.

Wherever the DOW has been, it's going down.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It was an interesting observation and some of that technical crap
has helped keep our retirement account moving in the right direction :)

John Murphy: ECONOMISTS ARE LATE AS USUAL

http://stockcharts.com/commentary/archives/20080802/

"In a recent Market Message, I discussed how the stock market is a leading indicator of the economy and why it isn't a good idea to use economic forecasting to trade the stock market. Historically, the market turns down at least six months before the economy. Chart 1 shows the NYSE Advance-Decline Line peaking last June. That suggested a possible recession by December of last year. Chart 2 shows the S&P 500 peaking last October. That puts the odds for a recession somewhere around April of this year. This week's economic reports showed that second quarter growth was below economic forecasts. It probably would have been even worse without a temporary boost from rebate checks. More importantly, GDP growth for the fourth quarter of last year was actually negative. It was reported this morning that the unemployment rate for July rose from 5.5% to 5.7% to the highest level in more than four years. A number of economists were quoted over the last two days saying that the economy was now in recession. Thanks for that late newsflash nearly a year after the stock market started dropping. These are the same folks who accused investors of panicing at the end of last year by using the "fear versus fundamentals" slogan that was flashed on TV screens. With the stock market now in an offical bear market, what are investors supposed to do with the newfound pessimism in the economic community? How many times do we have to repeat this cycle before people realize that the only way to trade the stock market is to study the market itself -- not the economy. The study of the market is what the charting approach is all about..."


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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I simply disagree..
Edited on Wed Aug-06-08 06:42 AM by sendero
... entirely with the premise here.

The markets are still lagging by a year, the markets did not predict the collapsing of the credit bubble at all, they reacted to it and they still are.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. We'll have to agree to disagree as I do believe that many times
market behavior can be a clue as to what lies ahead. Examples being the homebuilder stocks that topped in mid 2005 and the BKX topping in early 2007...JMHO.

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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Many times..
.... but decidedly not this time.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. S&P today's close 996 - 200 month SMA 992
http://www.contraryinvestor.com/2008archives/moaug08.htm

"...Since 1982 right up until the present, the S&P 500 has never again been even 20% away from its 200 month MA. So can we suggest that when/if the S&P is 20% or less from its 200 month MA, we need to prepare and perhaps anticipate a less than pleasant forward outcome? As we look back across historical experience, we believe that 20% line is a warning bell to be heard...


...Remember, what we have presented in this discussion is interpretive art. We're simply trying to identify the appropriate rhythm of historical experience against which to view the current cycle. We know US credit cycle issues of the moment are incredibly important. We have called them generational in character in our discussions for literally years now. The advent of economic and financial market globalization is incredibly meaningful change. From a demographic standpoint, we have the baby boomers on the cusp of theoretical retirement at the exact time the ten year moving average of equity price only returns is as low as anything we have experienced in close to a generation. And we know the boomers are going to need to at least partially liquidate the financial assets they have accumulated along the way (inclusive of pension assets) to fund retirement lifestyles they believe they deserve. From our standpoint, we believe the multiplicity of issues converging at the moment are far from routine. They are far from cyclical. This is secular in terms of convergence. Again, we warned you this perhaps venture into the dark side would not be fun at all. We simply believe that in cycles such as we now find ourselves, having a sense of the very big picture is quite important."



August 2007

Going With The Flow?

http://www.contraryinvestor.com/2007archives/moaug07.htm

"...As we promised, trying to keep it short, there you have it. Although we believe each individual chart tells its own story, our main point in this discussion is that collectively, these relationships represent multi-year or multi-decade trend breaks for now. They are now occurring in simultaneous fashion. Just a coincidence? We think not. Moreover, we suggest an important need for continual monitoring as these trends quite similarly hug trends in powerful demographic changes. Could it really be that as the boomers push near and into retirement, what has been their dramatic impact on asset inflation through continual expansion in household leverage is changing? We believe this is indeed the primary question and message to continue to monitor in these relationships. As we’ve suggested many a time, the credit cycle is the key. And this is a slice of the broader credit cycle as it applies to households. Households key to longer-term consumption trends important to both the US domestic and many a foreign exporting economy. You know we’ll be checking back in on a quarterly basis to monitor whether these initial trend changes remain intact, or are simply blips on the ever-growing leverage expansion screen."






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gopbuster Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Good historical reference in the articles especially the 200 MMA
Scary we are down here flirting with it and no buying pressure in sight, so far.

I'll be monitoring tomorrow as well

Scary times indeed.

Thanks
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. YW, they always have great historical references n/t
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