I have a question for the Forum; please tell me what you think (either way)

[Greyhound]

I've been toying with the inevitable question, "so what's your solution?"

8 steps to turning the economy around;

Universal single payer health care
Abolish the Fed
Nationalize the banks
Double the minimum wage
Abolish state unemployment and replace it with a uniform federal benefit
Shorten the work week to 35 hours
Eliminate overtime exemptions for any employees
Establish matching tariffs

Pretty radical changes and virtually eliminates the financial, and much of the insurance
industry, but pushes money down to the bottom where it is used.

[ananda]

1. Fair trade.. not Free Trade (R)

nt

[Pharaoh]

2. Love it K&R

If only you could get politicians to think so simply.

But it is of course about the influence of big money in government which gives us the mess we are in today. So I would just add to the list. Instant run off voting (on paper!) and totally government financed elections.

[Greyhound]

6. I think those are great additions, too. I was just restricting it to economic issues

for this discussion.

Thanks.

[Pharaoh]

10. yes but they cause

the economic issues :o)

[BR_Parkway]

3. Like it - but we need to put half the financial/insurance folks back

to work - I don't think a streamlined gov't run system would absorb more than 1/2 of them, so we would need jobs for the rest.

[Greyhound]

7. Yes indeed. The shorter work week and uniform unemployment benefit

are supposed to reduce/eliminate the motivation to make fewer people work harder so that greater numbers of people do work.

I think a byproduct of this system would be more entrepreneurs starting small businesses. Over the last 30 years or so we seem to have lost sight of the fact that it is small business, not giant corporations, that employ most Americans and drive the real economy.

This is not a total package, merely a start. I would like reinvent the SBA for example.

Thanks.

[SheilaT]

4. Abolishing the Fed

and nationalizing the banks probably wouldn't solve anything.

I do think shortening the work week to 35, perhaps even 30 hours would be a very good idea. The standard work week got shortened from 60 to 40 hours during the Great Depression, and that did a lot towards putting millions to work.

Eliminating overtime exemptions would only impact a relative minority of workers, although it could make a substantial difference in the lives or paychecks of those employees.

Single payer health care, which I heartily support, would have a less-visible impact on the economy. I would also have the federal government underwrite ALL medical school tuition. If doctors didn't have to take on obscene debt to become doctors, they wouldn't feel forced into going into the most lucrative specialty possible just to pay back the loans. Oh, and do something about the high malpractice premiums also.

[Greyhound]

8. The purpose of abolishing the Fed and nationalizing banks is to extract

us from the fractional reserve central banking system that has lead to this sad state and to replace it with a currency control system. IOW, convert it from a profit driven business to a self-supporting service with the goal of stabilization.

I'm not sure of the percentages, but there are many millions of "management" positions that are exempt and are routinely abused. I came out of IT, and while we made good money (long ago and seemingly far away) we were required to put in 60 - 100 hours a week with no additional compensation. Retail and food & beverage are other great abusers of this system.

I think education and justice, in addition to health care, are vital areas that must have the profit motive driven from them to ensure access. The expense of med school would be shared and a profitless justice system would go a long way to addressing those issues, and I would also eliminate the AMA. The AMA is primarily concerned with containing competition by retaining completely unnecessary "rites of passage" such as the virtual slavery of residency with their 36 hour shifts and obscene workloads which do nothing to make better doctors but do cause many more mistakes.

Thanks.

[Terry in Austin]

11. Work week

I'd be all in favor of even a 40 hour week.

Many parts of the country (like Texas) still have a 45-hour week, 8 am to 5 pm. They still call it a "40 hour week," and sleaze out of it by saying "you don't get paid for lunch." Yeah, right.

There's evidence that you don't get any significant incremental productivity beyond about 6 hours a day anyway, so, yeah, a 30 hour week would make a lot of sense... and improve the quality of life quite a bit.

[Citizen Number 9]

27. You feel you should be paid for eating lunch?

What does that say about your regular work product?

[northernlights]

31. when I worked during my "lunch hour"

it would have been nice to have been paid for it. But we were required to work during lunch and we were not paid.

Forced to run at 50-60 hours/week to collect a 40 hour check...but I had it good compared to our software project specialists who worked as much as 100 hours/week to make up for sales and project managers fuck-ups. All because we bought the pr bullshit about no layoffs ever at DEC.

And when my career crashed, it was because my health and personal situation wouldn't tolerate working 70+ hours/week for a 40 hour check with a pay cut. That's what it came down to for a former colleague/competitor who, with a stay at home wife holding down the fort, had his back pushed to the wall. Driving between 3 different states every week to manage local communications teams, home for weekends, 70+ hours/week...for a pay cut.

It would also have been nice, a couple decades ago, when I was forced to work overtime to make up for my coworker who left early every day, to have been paid for it. Instead, she got *double* the raise I did because her boss was "in" and mine was not.

In my last job, it would have been nice if the employer had told me *up front* they wanted 24x7 pager duty instead of handing out my home phone number to their answering service behind my back and then sticking it to me, the first time over Christmas and New Years when they knew nobody was hiring so I couldn't leave. So 1 week of every month -- and always over holidays -- I could get phone calls from their pissed off customers in Europe at 2:00 in the morning. For an extra $50. FUCK THAT and FUCK THEM. FUCK YOU TOO, FOR THAT MATTER, CITIZEN #9. What are you, about 12 years old?

[Citizen Number 9]

32. You're whining to the wrong person.

I'm not too impressed by your rant.

First, I can and have worked 90, 100 hours a week for years on end, so I know what it entails.

Second, I rarely have run into people who can accurately tally the amount they actually work. They squeal about 60 hrs and it's more like 45 or 48. People get all tied up in counting their lunch, breaks, commute time, etc.

Third, the people who squeal the least are usually the ones working the hardest.

Fourth, you're lame if you allowed your employer to violate labor law on you like that. LAME.

[GSPowner]

36. It would seem that

most of the reponses are in the context of "I am owed something" and "somebody better give it to me". An intellictual discourse is impossible. It would seem that many people on this board especially in the economy threads want the Govt to run and give them everything and establish what is FAIR.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

5. Nice. The only things I get nervous about are

getting rid of the Fed (because Milton Friedman wanted that, so I have an instinctive knee-jerk reaction against it) and nationalizing the banks (only because I really don't know what that would entail and what the costs/benefits would be).

Still, awesome plan.

[Greyhound]

9. Thank you. See #8 for my reasoning on the Fed/banks issue.

What we have is a private enterprise run by people who's motivation is their own profits and that have no regard for the greater good.

[girl gone mad]

12. I think those are all good suggestions. n/t

[lonestarnot]

13. And job creation?

[Greyhound]

20. I believe that the uniform unemployment system, combined with a shorter work

week will create much demand. After all, those out of work will receive wages anyway, so why not use them instead of paying overtime?

Increased incentive to create and grow small business has always been the driving force behind our real economy. Very few people actually want to do nothing.

[Mike 03]

14. These all sounds like creative ideas except I would respecfully not ever do away

the Federal Reserve, especially not now.

[Greyhound]

19. Why? The function it is supposed to fulfill is necessary, but the institution itself

has failed to do so for a very long time, I think because of it's nature as a privately held organization, owned by profit seeking organizations.

[tama]

15. Forbid usury

ie. all interest-taking. Just give all citizens enough money for basic needs.

Or even better: get rid of money. And state. :)

[Greyhound]

21. Bingo. This is why I think we need to convert the banking system from a profit driven

business to a self-sustaining service.

With government serving as the source of sufficient currency* to keep the economy flowing and replacing interest with fees to recoup actual costs.

Eliminating currency altogether is, I think, premature. We are just not ready for that much and states are, as poor as they are, our only defense from the concentrated power of the ancient parasite class. Our "free trade" agreements have clearly demonstrated that.




*as provided in the Constitution, an obligation consistently abrogated throughout our history

[tama]

23. Premature, yes and no

Global capitalistic expansion means monetizing everything and anything with monopoly money. The real state issued monopoly money. That totalitarianism of usury cancer we must fight and crush, best by tough love. And we are winning.

That said, many forms can and do coexist. Variation is way of life and beauty. So until we can get of state hierarchy, no problemo with sustainable balanced currency, as long as it allows also ways of life with various forms of local money and moneyless localism.

[GSPowner]

35. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

[TransitJohn]

16. The big one:

end corporate personhood now.

[Greyhound]

22. Yes. Legislate this fraud out of existence.

[fasttense]

17. Wow, you certainly understand this economic disaster much better than

the idiot economist I hear on the corporate TV.

I would add 2 things.

Along with minimum wage we should increase wages for government employees. (China just did this because in a communist country there is a whole hell of a lot of government employees.) In democracies, this tends to drive up the value of non-government employee wages too.

For struggling manufacturers like GM and such, the government should buy up all their stock and give it to their workers.

[Greyhound]

24. Good point. Do you remember when government wages were actually lower

than what people got in the private sector?

As for the auto manufacturers, I still think that the UAW and the government should go into business together. It just makes more sense than giving more money to the twits that pissed away two decades of record profits going into every business except making vehicles, while letting their primary business go to shit.

Thanks for the input.

[DemReadingDU]

18. Jobs

Millions of people who are laid off, and soon to be laid off, need jobs.

[Greyhound]

25. Exactly. n/t

[HamdenRice]

26. here goes

Universal single payer health care -- good idea. I think it's inevitable at this point.

Abolish the Fed -- Terrible idea. We'd be in great depression II right now if it weren't for the Fed. There is a lot of absolutely factually wrong right wing propaganda floating around the internet, sadly swallowed whole by the left about the Fed. Don't believe it. Learn for yourself from solid sources what it is and what it does. Above all, don't buy the batshit crazy insane propaganda about the need for a gold standard.

Nationalize the banks -- Not all the banks but a few banks need to be nationalized immediately. That's the only way to get the credit and banking system moving again. That's a great idea.

Double the minimum wage -- It needs to be increased, but I doubt doubled. The increase has to be related to actual measurements of the cumulative increase in productivity for low wage labor. Otherwise, such a move would risk inflation.

Abolish state unemployment and replace it with a uniform federal benefit -- I could agree with a national system of unemployment, but the benefit would have to be indexed to local cost of living. That would mean the federal government would discriminate against certain areas, which makes it politically impossible. Probably better to leave it a state matter.

Shorten the work week to 35 hours -- Terrible idea, if you mean an absolute limit. There is not a finite amount of work to be doled out. The more people work, the more productivity, and we need to work our way out of this hole right now. The more each of us works, the more work is available for others. If, however, you mean time and a half after 35 hours, that's a good idea.

Eliminate overtime exemptions for any employees -- Bad idea. Managers and owners are difficult to fit into an hourly wage structure. However, there needs to be much better policing of the definition of "manager". Employers like Walmart calling low level workers managers so they don't have to pay overtime should be eliminated.

Establish matching tariffs -- Terrible idea. We need to reduce Asian tariffs, not raise ours. And we need to export our labor and environmental standards, not adopt their low standards. Fair Trade, not Free Trade and not Mercantilism.

[Greyhound]

33. Thanks for the input.

The Fed is one of the central banks and they are global monopolists of currency, and that is a bad idea on it's face and the fact that they are not controlled by governments, doubly so. Your assumption that, because we don't share an opinion on this institution, I obviously just don't know what I'm talking about is pretty arrogant.

That said, the function that the Fed is supposed to provide is essential, it is the control and oversight of it, combined with the fact that it's allegiance is not primarily to the United States, that makes it far too dangerous. I would also point out that there are more than a few other well-qualified people that share this or a similar view. Abolishing it was more a convenience of phrase than literal description, but you know if I got really specific, even fewer people would read it.

My purpose for federal unemployment is to bypass the too often one-sided and discriminatory state systems. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/20/national/a140117S46.DTL">This list of maximum state benefits shows a range of $690 (900 - 210) per week. Can you really expect somebody to survive on $210 a week, $80 less than minimum wage, even in Mississippi? $450 a week in CA? $240 in AZ is just crazy. A standard minimum is long overdue. Many states, and not all of them red, have proven themselves to be reckless on social issues.

Yes, overtime over 35.

Why would you require managers to spend even more of their lives at work for no consideration? I just don't get this mind-set. Mangers should be paid for their time like anyone else, this doesn't mean that a manager can't contract for 50 hours a week at some salary, but if that provision can't be met, they should get more.

Since we can't reduce Asian tariffs, raising ours is the only option I see. We need to increase our manufacturing capacity and force existing manufacturers to modernize, the surest way to do that is direct competition. If they want our tariffs lower, all they have to do is lower theirs, you gave no explanation for your objection.

[TroubleMan]

34. I disagree strongly on your answer about the Fed.

You said that we'd be in Great Depression II, if it wasn't for the Fed. I'm sorry, but the Fed's actions have made this problem worse. They fed and encouraged the asset bubble. They could have leaned against the wind years ago to make the crisis more manageable, but that would have hurt all their Wall Street buddies. All they've done is make sure that Main Street gets hurt a lot more than Wall Street. They've waged war on savers for years.

There's been a war going on between savers and investors for years, and the investors have been doing all the fighting. The Fed is their big gun. It takes the power out of voters hands and puts all the power in the investment class's hands. The people should have the power to control their own monetary policy, and not have it controlled by people who will monopolize and use it for the personal gain of a select few.

Also, fractional reserve banking system was a great idea when they came up with the system. It gave the liquidity that expanding empires needed to grow and expand quickly. However, a fractional reserve system only works when you have room to grow. We've come to the point that we've run out of room. An economy based on debt, growth, and interest can no longer work, because the earth is overpopulated and our resources are running out. Right now a system based on growth is starting to become all false growth and smoke and mirrors. It's become a giant ponzi scheme where only insiders can make real money, and where savers are screwed out of their savings and have the power of their paychecks diminished by inflation.

We have to begin the transition from a reserve banking system into some other system. Now I know that's scary to talk about, and honestly I don't know how it can be done smoothly. However, it has to be done. We can't play cowboy economics in a spaceship environment anymore. It's not working and it won't work in the future.

[Greyhound]

37. We are on a spaceship, now the ship is reaching it's capacity.

Why do the economics as it is faithful refuse to acknowledge that the Fed has it's own agenda and it doesn't always coincide with the nation's?
:kick:

[Citizen Number 9]

28. I think this would increase the price of my morning latte.

Where is the "single payer" going to get the money to pay for the health care?

[Vanje]

29. Maybe if "single payer" hadnt just thrown 7.50 Billion

at the richest bastards in the world, and spent the last 5 years hurling billions and billions of dollars at an utterly unnecessary war , then "single payer" might have a fucking pot to piss in!!

[Citizen Number 9]

30. No.

The government had decided to keep spending on health care neutral long before the current crisis.