I spent the week in California. I looked and I looked and couldn't find the brazillion solar roofs

[NNadir]

Not anywhere.

I was at scientific meetings most of the week, and I can't say I drove lots of places, but still, you would think I would see at least one of the Brazillion solar roofs that made the steroid crazed Hummer driving Repuke governor of California into an "environmentalist."

In fact, I have seen more solar roofs in New Jersey, although solar energy is here, like everywhere, mostly a yuppie toy and a trivial form of energy.

By the way, the governor of New Jersey announced today that he'd like to build new nuclear capacity here since it will be impossible for New Jersey to limit dangerous fossil fuel releases without nuclear plants. I agree.

Anyway, about California...

I didn't spend much time in dangerous cars when I was in California although I did spend one day driving up the coast to LA.

I didn't see any hydrogen hypercars, hydrogen hummers, hydrogen stations either.

No ZEV's anywhere either. Not one.

I did see the beautiful San Onofre nuclear reactors though, and as always the surfers in the waters nearby.

[TomInTib]

1. We have quite a few in our little Town.

All of that open space in parking lots can be well-utilized.

We were also the first US town with a ban on trans-fats and plastic grocery bags.

Our grocery stores are now charging for paper bags, as well.

[NNadir]

3. How many is "quite a few?" A brazillion?

I'd go look for myself, but I'd probably be banned, since I contain a hell of a lot of trans fats.

[TomInTib]

5. No, you would be welcome...

as long as you didn't grill chunks of yourself with the intent to "sell for consumption".

But we do have a lot of solar going on.

Tiburon is a special place.

[FREEWILL56]

28. He would decline your invitation because he doesn't want to be disproven.

Ask him where he looked, but then again he still could lie about it. You also should ask him what the fuck is a brazillion and what does it have to do with a million, as in the million solar roofs? Note that that is a national program.
Hmm. Now I get it as to why he didn't see a brazillion. Maybe if he wants to see a brazillion he should go to Brazil.

[Beregond2]

2. You can build all the nuclear reactors in

Jersey you want, as far as I'm concerned. Just keep the waste there too.

[NNadir]

6. There is no such thing as "nuclear waste." I would, however, be perfectly satisfied to keep all of

used nuclear fuel in my backyard, since it has proved to be harmless for more than 50 years and it contains very valuable material.

We've had used nuclear fuel here in New Jersey since 1969, before the Beatles broke up, before the invention of the PC, before the rise of the polyester suit. It has injured zero people.

I note, with some contempt, that is very unlikely that you are storing your dangerous fossil fuel waste in your backyard however. You have, I bet, no interest in keeping it in your home, and less capability of carrying it out if you did care, which you don't. Probably some of it has ended up in my lungs, my kids lungs, and the lungs of every person on the planet.

In fact, the definition of so called "waste" by the anti-nuke cult/community is disingenous, arbitrary, and frankly ridiculous.

Even though used nuclear fuel has injured zero people, these shit-for-brains claim with no moral, scientific, or social rationality that only nuclear energy need to account for its side products.

For years I have been challenging fundies on line to produce just one case of injury or death from the storage of used nuclear fuel, and thus far there have been zero people who can produce such a case.

On the other hand, it is relatively easy to produce cases - from volumes and volumes and volumes of medical literature - cases of death from dangerous fossil fuel waste.

I have a friend on another website who worked in the silicon industry by the way, who swears that it was the cause of her cancer. I can't say that it is, but I can't say that it isn't either.

I'll bet one brazillion bucks that you couldn't care less about the organochlorine content of the water under the city of San Jose. I'll bet another brazillion that you don't know a damn thing about what it is or how it got there too.

I'll bet you couldn't care less about the 400 approximately ppm of dangerous fossil fuel waste now distributed evenly in earth's atmosphere.

Thanks for your silly and arbitrary rote response.

[losthills]

10. Yeah , I've noticed that the market in pre-owned nuclear waste

is making people rich.

They call it Glow In The Dark Gold....

[LiberalEsto]

29. Could you please be more civil?

This is DU, and I expect to see more respect for other DU members than phrases like "these shit-for-brains claim with no moral, scientific, or social rationality".

I will be notifying the moderators if I continue to see disrespectful and nasty posts on this forum.

Thanks.

[Nihil]

31. Heads-up for the mods ...

... you've got a busy time coming up ...
:evilgrin:

[madokie]

32. It would be one thing if he actually brought some useful info to the dialog but he's not.

reminding everyone about how stupid I am or anyone else for that matter is is not. I see us all in a situation where we must get it right this time if we are to hope to survive. The last time we went way wrong in letting big money convince us that easy to get to coal was the way to go, now we know better. Nuclear is not the answer either as long as there is no plan as to what to do with the highly radioactive and very dangerous, in real time, waste. Ignoring it and hoping someone will come up with something in the future is not a viable plan. The plan as it is today has been in the works for 60 some odd years and still all that is happening is the waste is stacking up, not being safely dealt with. I think its time to stop the name calling bullshit on here as it brings nothing to the table nor does it make for this being a learning environment. And yes, thats why I come here, to learn, to broaden my horizons if you will and not to read someones rants who can't grasp the concept of civil discourse.
What is called depleted Uranium, which is bullshit by the way, as its still very much radioactive, is not acceptable as a weapon either as one of its uses is today, the other use being armour plating. As it stands today more nuclear energy is not going to save us from anything as it will only add to our woes.:-(

In fact until there is an answer to the question of what to do with the waste advocating its increased use as a saviour is only taking away from the efforts to find actual answers to our many energy questions. that is all

sorry
peace and have a great day, I plan too

talk to me...



http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/env/du/en/

[LiberalEsto]

33. The nuclear mess in Hanford

Interesting article from NY Times:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE5D71F38F930A25754C0A966958260

[madokie]

34. Yet there is some who will argue that there has been no deaths attributed to nuclear energy

production. I often wonder what the percentage of the incidences of cancers before and after the dawn of the nuclear age is. With cancer being only one of the many maladies suspected from exposure to radiation.

one is one, two is two, three being a few with four or more referred to by me as many.

[FREEWILL56]

36. Oh, contrare there is a such thing as nuclear waste.

Nuclear waste is the spent byproducts of the nuclear industry that are unusable to them, but continue to emit radiation. This also includes any tools, machines, or clothes worn in the performance of operating and maintaining the nuclear facility. These items are dangerous to be in the proximity of and are extremely hazardous. Again, as I've mentioned in the past to you, do note that I worked in the nuclear field before you spout any names at me. Where do you get off saying nuclear is that safe that you'd welcome these nuclear wastes to be in your backyard? You would not have a backyard to enjoy as any number of government agencies would see to it that you and nobody else would be allowed in harms way until all contamination would be removed. Your zeal for nuclear is ok by me, but it's not what you make it out to be and I believe more steps need to be done to insure safety in conjunction with nuclear facilities. Talk such as yours is bordering insanely misleading.

[Anywho6]

4. Hello from California!

I live in Davis, CA in the Sacramento Valley and our neighborhood has quite a few homes with solar panels, but Davis is like a mini Berkeley--very progressive. I can look out our windows and see four homes with solar. I've lived here for 10 years (KY transplant) and I have always been amazed that every house built here doesn't have solar power to take advantage of the five+ months of constant summer sun. And it's so flat here! I swear, if I had the money, I would buy up a bunch of land here and instead of buying houses, I would build solar panels!

I thought there was actually talk of requiring all new homes in CA to be built with solar, but maybe I was dreaming...

I have yet to see the hydrogen stations, too.

What are ZEVs?

[Systematic Chaos]

7. Zero Emission Vehicles.

Another complete fallacy brought to you by the RPG*

















*Renewables Peanut Gallery

[diane in sf]

16. So, you're into generating power in a way that isn't renewable instead?

Non-renewables don't seem to be the best idea if we wish to sustain ourselves on this planet.

[jpak]

8. The Reagan Library is *not* solar powered

:rofl:

[BeFree]

11. Duzy alert!!!

That and one must look up to see the future, eh?

Ya know, the saying 'nuclear waste is safe' is so far from reality, one simply must question the mental health of the sayer.

[LiberalEsto]

30. The library uses microturbines

that are fired by natural gas to produce electricity. Heat from the generating process is used for space conditioning.

Here's a short case study I wrote about it a couple of years ago:

http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/resources/Case_Studies/ReaganLib_Cogen_H_rev.pdf

"The cogeneration system consists of sixteen 60 kW microturbines that run on cleanburning
natural gas and supply 95 percent of the electricity for both the new Air Force
One Pavilion – which opened in October 2005 – and the original Ronald Reagan
Presidential Library and Museum, both located in Simi Valley, California. The
microturbine units generate enough electricity to power the equivalent of 400 homes."

[hunter]

35. Natural gas is not sustainable source of energy.

Importing it will rapidly become problematic. Nations that have a surplus will make greater profits exporting natural gas as nitrogen fertilizers, not as LNG. Everyone has got to eat. In a contracting economy gas fired microturbine cogeneration schemes are going to end up far beyond the economic reach of most people.

[LiberalEsto]

37. I never said it was sustainable

You're quite right. It is not.

However natural gas is still available, and it creates fewer emissions than coal, especially when used with catalytic devices that reduce carbon monoxide and nitrous oxide.

Although I greatly prefer renewable energy sources such as solar, wind and wave energy, it may be necessary to generate electricity with natural gas as a replacement for coal as an interim measure in the transition to truly sustainable power generation.

Microturbines are definitely costly, and are not solutions for residential or small-scale power generation. However they can be useful in facilities with large electric demand loads that need to remain in operation 24/7 without interruptions in power supply.

Such facilities may include large nursing homes and hospitals that need to have continuous power for life-sustaining equipment, located in areas prone to demand-related utility voltage reductions or heavy ice storms. I've written about one such nursing facility near Buffalo, NY that accepts patients from other nursing homes during such emergencies.

In areas of New England, there are large supermarkets that have invested -- with subsidies from natural gas utilities -- in microturbines not only to prevent loss of perishable food items in the event of storm-related power interruptions, but also to maintain 24-hour operations in emergencies so that people in surrounding communities can get food, bottled water, batteries and other vital supplies.

[dubeskin]

9. You haven't been past Sacramento then

Because a lot, and I mean, A LOT of the newer houses being built in my area are either standard including solar roofs, or as an alternate which can be added. In addition, it's not uncommon to see solar roofs installed in the older homes that can accommodate them. And it's a also a little strange, because for as conservative as my city and county are, one would think that money would be spent on rifles than clean energy (I didn't really mean that).

[losthills]

13. note: He didn't spend a week in California.

Nor did he attend any "Scientific meetings."

He's just blowing the usual smoke out of the usual orifice...

[jpak]

14. Someone else "gets it"

:thumbsup:

:hi:

[diane in sf]

17. Hear, hear! Smells like creeping green charlies, not smoke.

[Ready4Change]

12. I know! I haven't seen any of these either!

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=656

These were being promised back in the 1950's, over FORTY years ago, and I haven't seen a single one on the road, nor even it's ancestors.

CLEARLY failed technology.

:rofl:

[jpak]

15. I recently attended a scientific meeting in NJ - and saw a brazzzzilion of them

It's true - it's true!!!1111

:rofl:

[FREEWILL56]

27. Maybe because Batman bought them all up.

It does resemble the Batmobile.

[Fledermaus]

18. How many zeros are there in a brazillon?

[Bigmack]

19. CA doesn't buy back...

power generated by home solar and unused by the homeowner.

Big reason why more people don't invest in home units.

A friend in the desert has solar, and the little wheel spins backwards most of the time. He gets credit for when he needs it in the summer for AC.

Here in WA, the power companies buy back the unused power.

[losthills]

20. You are wrong about that.

Most utility companies in California do buy back solar and wind gwnerated power.

[diane in sf]

21. Only till the bill gets to zero, BUT there is pending legislation for complete buyback

[Zorro]

22. Not true for residential installations

Most residential installations are on the net-metering system, which credits excess Kwh production over a 12 month period. If you generate more than you use at the end of the 12 months, then all you've done is contribute to the energy company's bottom line -- you don't receive any payment.

[Bigmack]

24. Not San Diego Gas and Electric....

I re-asked my friend. He sent this..

We create power beyond what we use and it all goes back into the grid. Our meter runs backwards as we generate power. At the end of each month we get a tally of credits or deficits. At the end of the year if we generate more power than we use we zero out. Let's say we generate a thousand kilowatts more than we use. Those assholes from SDGE sell our extra power, we get nothing. I almost forgot, we must pay $5 a month to use the SDGE lines to give them our power. We don't get charged the line fee if we use more than we generate. At the end of the year we settle the Power generated minus use. This year we will probably only pay the monthly $5 or about $50.

In more progressive states like Oregon and probably Washington the power companies have to buy extra power from the home owner.

[losthills]

26. I see now that it's complicated

and the programs vary widely throughout the state.

Thanks.

[Zorro]

23. The coasts aren't especially prime areas for residential solar power

Lots of marine effects that keep the mornings foggy. Further out from the coast is better for solar installations.

Obviously there are a number of residential solar panel installations occurring, since the California rebate thresholds are being lowered due to the increase in photovoltaic installations.

[wtmusic]

25. There are 16 Equinox hydrogen fuel cell SUVs parked in the back lot

at GM's Burbank, CA service center. The canisters inside are pressurized to 900 bars or roughly 12,000 psi. Though their energy required to pressurize the tanks cuts their efficiency down to ±30% and there is no public place to fuel them, their exhaust is nothing but water and they are as safe as can be.