Oceans of water

[XemaSab]

It's easy to understand why so many of us, hearing of threats from climate change and shrinking water supplies, turn our gaze west to the mighty Pacific. The Colorado River, a water source strained to its limits, once seemed endless. The ocean practically is endless. As Saudi Arabia and now Australia have shown, it is possible to remove the salt from ocean water and get perfectly decent -- indeed, quite high-quality -- drinking water.

So why not, Southern Californians ask, tap the sea to solve our state's water woes?

Desalination, as the process of removing salt from water is known, will be an important part of California's long-term water supply solution. Already the technology is used to prepare wastewater for refilling underground aquifers. Desalinating ocean water could provide cities with new "local" water sources that, unlike the imported water that currently slakes our thirst, wouldn't be affected by problems in the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta or fights over water rights on the Colorado River. Best of all, the ocean is drought-proof.

But as attractive as it sounds, desalination won't be the saving hand that pulls our lush lawns and alfalfa fields from the jaws of arid reality. It is, and probably will remain, too expensive, too energy intensive and potentially too harmful to the environment to provide most of the water our state needs. By 2030, state water planners predict, desalination is likely to generate just a small portion -- less than 10% -- of California's water supply. We will still have to conserve.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-ed-desal28-2008jul28,0,5751229.story

[DCKit]

1. Traditional (fossil fuel and reverse osmosis) desalinization methods, perhaps....

but there are other ways to do it with much less energy - even solar energy - where the only costs are infrastructure, then pumping the water. Sure it's going to be more expensive than the water being stolen from other states and Mexico via the Colorado, but it SHOULD cost more to live in the desert - especially when 75% of that hijacked water is wasted on climate inappropriate landscaping.

This sounds too much like "it's too hard/expensive to take responsibility for our own population/waste based water problems, so let's just build a pipeline to the Great Lakes and drain them dry. On the way, we can tap into the Missouri and every other river between here and there. We need it, so we have every right to take it." Guess they missed the bit about how Great Lakes water levels are already dropping due to local use and climate "abnormalities".

I have some simple suggestions:

1) Stop planting grass in the desert. For those who insist on a living, green lawn, charge appropriately.
2) Mandate composting toilets and gray-water systems.
3) Harvest every bit of rain that does fall.
4) Stop pretending you have any right to water that doesn't even originate within your state. It pisses people off.

Sorry, but they're just not looking ahead and, if they are, they just don't give a shit about anyone else. If these pipelines are built to other states/regions and those same areas have their own periods of drought (and who hasn't?), what's the environmental impact on the people, streams and rivers in those watersheds? How many species might go extinct? How much warmer will the water become under periods of reduced flow? How much less oxygen will there be in that warmer water?

Why can't a state with the fifth largest economy in the world balance their budget and solve their own water issues?

[XemaSab]

2. Note well the correction to the article:

FOR THE RECORD:
Desalination: A Monday editorial said that purification systems and the massive pumps that move water through California use almost 20% of the energy consumed in the state. They use 4% of the electricity consumed. All water-related activities —including pumping and purification, wastewater treatment and residential, commercial and agricultural applications -- use 19% of the electricity consumed in the state.

[NNadir]

3. A guy I know once tried to propose a desalination scheme in California using so called "renewable"

energy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x37366

Regrettably it had no graphics.

[XemaSab]

4. Maybe it would have worked had it had better graphics

:shrug:

[depakid]

5. There's a successful plant outside of Perth, WA

Perth Seawater Desalination Plant, Seawater Reverse Osmosis (SWRO), Kwinana, Australia

With the official opening of the Perth Seawater Reverse Osmosis Plant in November 2006, Western Australia became the first state in the country to use desalination as a major public water source – and this may be simply the beginning. Facing a drying climate, the Water Corporation of Western Australia is actively exploring a variety of options to meet growing demands, which makes building a second SWRO facility a serious prospect to consider.

Located at Kwinana, some 25km south of the city, the new plant has an initial daily capacity of 140,000m³ with designed expansion to 250,000m³/day, making it the largest of its kind in the southern hemisphere and the biggest in the world to be powered by renewable energy. Ultimately supplying 17% of Perth’s needs, the plant will be the largest single contributor to the area’s integrated water supply scheme and provide an annual 45GL, to help serve the 1.5 million population.

Electricity for the desalination plant – which has an overall 24MW requirement and a production demand of 4.0kWh/kl to 6.0kWh/kl – comes from the new 80MW Emu Downs Wind Farm, which consists of 48 wind turbines located 30km east of Cervantes. Developed by Stanwell Corporation, a power generation corporation owned by Queensland Government and Western Australia's Griffin Energy, this facility commenced operation in 2006.

More: http://www.water-technology.net/projects/perth/

Another is planned near Port Augusta, South Australia. The Point Paterson plant relies on solar thermal.

http://www.publish.csiro.au/?act=view_file&file_id=EC134p4.pdf
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Southern California's problem of course is population- more people live there than in the entire continent of Australia.

[NNadir]

6. Several cities in California have desalination plants, as does a large prominent power plant

on the central coast that produces, in a few acres of land along the coast line, more power than all of the much ballyhooed (but failed) brazillion solar roofs program that became a cause celebre for a certain class of dumbbells in California, the kind that join CalPIRG.

Originally the plant that produces more electricity than all of the solar installations in California, used flash distillation, which made sense because it exploited waste heat, but the distillation system proved to be subject to corrosion. It was replaced with an RO unit.

Compared to desalination however, recovery of sewage water is cheaper and easier and does far less damage to the environment. This is the most widely used form of water recovery used in California. The plant that produces in a few acres of land more energy than all of the failed brazillion roofs, has no access to sewage water, and so uses seawater.

Interestingly a plant in Arizona that exports more electricity to California than all of the brazillion solar roofs in California, uses sewage water for cooling purposes.

In any case, yes, some of that water from the tap in San Diego spent part of its life in a toilet.

California will not have the energy to desalinate water. The gas gods will walk out on them sooner rather than later and they'll be in a hell of a fix.

In fact, they already are in a hell of a fix. Their electricity bills are now higher than when the famous pal of the right wing greenwasher Amory Lovins, anti-nuke Jeff Skilling, engineered the takeover of the Statehouse from the legitimately elected Governor by a sterioid crazed freak with a hydrogen Hummer.

[XemaSab]

7. I'm under the impression that the only desal plant is in Santa Barbara

The county used to be "off-grid" as far as water goes, and a few years ago in a severe drought they almost ran out.

There were two measures on the ballot: to build a desal plant and to tie into state water.

Both won.

Guess where Santa Barbara gets their water from when the lake gets low? :shrug: :eyes:

[NNadir]

8. Morro Bay has a plant, but checking the internet, they can't afford to run it.

Diablo Canyon has always run on desalinated water.

Electricity's pretty cheap there.

[XemaSab]

9. I don't think SB's plant has EVER been run (except maybe to test it).

and the city sold off half the equipment a few years ago.

According to the city website, it takes 6,600 kwh of electricity and costs $1,950 per acre-foot, compared with $1,200 for State water.

http://www.countyofsb.org/pwd/water/cloudseeding.htm

[NNadir]

10. I ripped off your thread, put my own stamp on it, and posted it at another website.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/2/164449/7798/997/561406

[XemaSab]

11. It's the American way

:patriot: