Top coal CEO not buying the carbon capture "clean coal" myth

[kgrandia]

One of the most compelling chapters in the PBS Frontline 2-hour special on global warming that aired earlier this week was the segment on America's Addiction to Coal. PBS dives headfirst into the myth of clean coal and pretty much tears it apart using something we don't often see these days when it come US energy issues: facts.

And the most complete take-down of "clean coal" in the segment came from the CEO of the second largest coal electricity company in the US.

http://www.coal-is-dirty.com/top-coal-ceo-pessimistic-about-carbon-capture-and-storage

[Indenturedebtor]

1. Well I generally agree with him... BUT

as I understand it we could presently capture most of the CO2 using huge algal greenhouses right?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-9823085-54.html

But you still have to deal with the strip mining, toxic chemicals, etc.

[NNadir]

2. Who told you that?

It's basically just wishful thinking.

[Indenturedebtor]

3. You're right because no experiments have been done... or wait no they have

And it takes 2 tons of algae for every 1 ton of CO2 you want to capture. The sunlight doesn't even have to be that good, and you don't really have to even clean the mercury out of the emissions before you feed it to the algae.

http://web.mit.edu/erc/spotlights/alg-all.html

But you could look some of this stuff up yourself.

[NNadir]

4. As it happens, I have, and on a much deeper level than googling.

One always like to ask, "if it's so easy, why aren't people doing it?"

I could produce hundreds, if not thousands of scientific papers on this subject, but I wonder if there would be a point.

[Indenturedebtor]

5. Do it! Don't hold up the bank with a snickers bar

Show me the gun!

People aren't doing it everywhere because it's a new tech.

[NNadir]

7. Show you the gun?

I've spent a lot of time on energy on this website and in other places.

In the "other place," I suspect I scanned thousands of references to support my claims.

In general, the days in which I address every yokel's laziness in detail are over. I suspect the days are also over where a yokel like Amory Lovins can collect tens of millions of dollars and lots of undeserved respect by waving his hand about some research report he read somewhere without possessing any of the tools to understand what was being said and with zero critical thinking, are also over.

I'm not the one who's engaged in a hold up here, I'm not the one waving a toy and claiming it's a truck.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

That was true when Amory Lovins wrote in 1976 how all of our energy problems would be solved by solar energy by 2000, and it's still true today.

Thanks though, for your interesting claim that the E&E forum has become meaningless because the answer has been found. We're all very impressed, I'm sure.

[bananas]

8. Hooray!

"the days in which I address every yokel's laziness in detail are over"
:party: :toast: :bounce: :headbang: :woohoo: :applause: :rofl:

[Systematic Chaos]

10. Which, sadly, just leaves us with the lazy yokels.

I prefer to learn when I come here, as opposed to indulging into pipe-dream bullshit. :(

[bananas]

13. Even nuclear industry lobbyists know that McCain's 45 nukes by 2030 is a pipe dream

Every serious analysis - by the IPCC, CMI, etc - all come to the same conclusion,
the overwhelming majority of CO2 reductions will come from efficiency and renewables,
nuclear will only play a small role.
Yet NNadir keeps attacking efficiency and renewables and environmental organizations and even climate scientist James Hansen.
If you come here to learn, avoid NNadir's posts, they have so much misinformation,
you'll actually know less after reading them,
they're as bad as Steve Milloy's "junk science" on Fox News.


Christie Todd Whitman: McCain's grand vision is a "nice idea" but it's "not going to happen"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bananas/598


"I'm not quite sure the number McCain put out is obtainable," says Adrian Heymer, senior director for new plant deployment at the Nuclear Energy Institute.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bananas/568


Junk Science on Fox News: Environmentalists Prompt Nuclear Power Wake-Up Call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bananas/612

[Systematic Chaos]

15. Say what you want, but even if nuclear is also a pipe dream,

it is still the one thing which has the best chance of helping humanity get its collective shit together before it's too late.

As long as I live in a city which gets hot, blistering sunlight over 90% of daylight hours, yet which has practically no solar or wind capacity, that will be my mantra and I will continue to support Nnadir's logic and reasoning - harsh demeanor nonwithstanding. I'm all about the message, not the messenger, when it comes to these topics. They're too important to let a few harsh words get in the way. :shrug:

[Indenturedebtor]

9. I at least linked you to an article. You're GOP'ing me right now :P

Your claims of expertise and past achievements do not make for a convincing argument.

And I did not say that a solution has been found... just that CO2 emissions from coal plants can, and have at least experimentally been reduced nearly 100% using algae.

For that matter your argument could just as easily be applied to your support of Breeder Reactors and Fission in general. Why is it again that the whole world isn't using Nuclear Power? Is it because of those "damn hippies" and "idiots" who just can't seem to see the world exactly as you do?

[NickB79]

11. Your link discusses making biofuel using coal exhaust, not carbon capture and sequestration

When the algal biofuel grown with the coal plant's CO2 is itself burned as a fuel, it will still release that carbon into the atmosphere. It just adds another step in the carbon cycle from solid to gaseous form.

That isn't to say it's not a good interim step, as it will cut our consumption of petroleum in the short term, but in the long term atmospheric CO2 concentrations would continue to rise.

[kristopher]

12. That is one suggested purpose, not the only purpose

The algae could also be sequestered.

However a better solution is the one we are set to pursue; switch to renewables and stop burning coal.

[Indenturedebtor]

14. You can also dry and bury the Algae -or burn it and recapture the gas

rinse - repeat.

[quidam56]

6. It's not just the coal, it's the way it's mined now under the Cheney Administration,

Look at the prosperity and decapitation of our Appalachian Mountains. Wise County which has powered the world by sending coal to China is senseless. Wise County should look more like Dubai instead of the toxic waste dump moonscape it has become !

END MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL ! http://www.wisecountyissues.com SEAN HANNITY'S AMERICA sure isn't my America...

[Terry in Austin]

16. Oh, brother. More oxy, less moron -- please!

"Clean coal"

...right up there with "promiscuous chastity" and "business ethics."