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California's Coast Feeling The Heat - Part 2

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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 12:48 PM
Original message
California's Coast Feeling The Heat - Part 2
EDIT

"Researchers examining what long-term data are available have uncovered alarming and portentous evidence of a changing world. One area where monitoring has been funded is in the southern portion of the California Current, a 600-mile-wide swath of southward-flowing water running along the western U.S. coastline, roughly from Oregon down through California. Part of a great subtropical gyre of currents in the northern Pacific Ocean, the California Current is the eastern end of a swirling seawater highway that circles from Japan to Oregon, south past California just into Mexico, across to the Philippines, and back up to Japan to begin again. Along the way the water changes. As it crosses the Pacific toward North America, more water comes in through rain than leaves through evaporation, so the overall current becomes less salty. As it comes down the U.S. coastline, it meets cold, salty water heading north on another current, mixing in great meanders and eddies that can be up to 300 miles wide. The current turns west again south of California to start the process again.

In 1949, a combination of state and federal organizations began monitoring physical, chemical, biological, and meteorological facets of the California Current under the auspices of the California Cooperative Oceanic and Fisheries Investigations program, known as CalCOFI. It was designed in part to track many factors affecting commercially important fish species such as mackerel and sardines. The data gathered under CalCOFI include air temperatures, wind speeds, nutrient levels, salinity, water temperature on the surface and deep below the surface, and the abundance of larval fish and zooplankton -- the smallest marine animals. The early monitoring cruises brought researchers as far north as the Oregon border, but the surveys were scaled down to meet budget demands in 1970. But those first 20 years of data were enough to show that what happens in the south and what happens in the north tend to be the same. The data since 1970 cover the area between San Diego and Santa Barbara. It is the largest, longest-term data set of its kind on the West Coast.

What happens if you watch those data change over the years? Your findings might echo those of John McGowan, an oceanography professor at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego: As water temperatures have risen, the base of the marine food chain off the coast of California has crashed. And one by one, the fish and birds farther up that food chain are crashing, too. Life in the ocean begins with tiny plants known as phytoplankton. Like all plants, phytoplankton need light to drive photosynthesis and nutrients to feed the process. Although it is somewhat counterintuitive, the richest and most nutritive ocean waters are the coldest and heaviest. Strong winds do the work of stirring the system and pulling the nutrient-rich waters up toward the light.

The first problems showed up in conjunction with El Niños, shortterm changes in ocean temperatures that tend to increase the warm water along the western U.S. coastline, reducing the food that boosts the phytoplankton. But researchers like McGowan noticed a difference between early El Niños and the later ones. Numbers of zooplankton -- the tiniest animals in the food chain, which depend on the phytoplankton -- dropped during the El Niño of 1957 to 1959 and then quickly rebounded. But after subsequent El Niños during the 1983 to 1984 and 1997 to 1998 seasons, the zooplankton did not come back. In 1995, going back through the accumulated years of data, McGowan reported a staggering finding in Science: Zooplankton numbers in the California Current had dropped by 70 percent. The CalCOFI data show a sharp increase in California Current water temperatures in 1977 -- at the same time the zooplankton numbers crashed. "It's the largest change ever measured in plankton productivity in the ocean," McGowan says. "This enormous change in the zooplankton in the California Current could not be detected from year to year. It several decades before we discovered this big drop, by at least 70 percent or even up to 80 percent."

EDIT

http://www.tidepool.org/original_content.cfm?articleid=138191
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. food chain crashing?
why, I can see chemical-saturated beef cutlets for sale at my local Sam's Club! Surely you're being "alarmist!"
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America is great Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Meanwhile
The ozone "hole" is shrinking and its the coldest Christmas in Minnesota in years.

Climate comes & goes. Personally, the world is warming, I think that may be a good thing because it will delay the next ice age.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. There are some enormous assumptions in your prediction.
Can you support them?
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America is great Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Can you support a single global warming assumption?
Just 30 years ago scientists "almost universally" agreed we were headed 90 mph into another ice age.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. I could do the research and cite scientists all over the world,
who know a lot more about it than I (and perhaps you) do, and who say it is happening, but then you'd do some research and cite some other scientists who question it, so, from our perspective, it comes down to 50:50. I'm willing to live with your point of view if you recognize that fact, 50:50, that is unless you are capabable of critiquing ALL of the science (methodologically and otherwise) and showing me how "your" science is better than "mine".

All of which is beside the point: Whatever happens, the real question is how will it affect people. Mitigating the effects of an hypothetical coming ice-age with the effects of hypothetical imminent global warming could still produce enough chaos that you and I, and future generations, will be harmed. I am enough of a Conservative that I say we should do what we can about this (stop buying SUVs, start conserving fossil fuels, grow your own food etc. etc. etc.).
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America is great Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. yes, these could be the same ones that said the world was entering
another ice age 30 years ago.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Name one scientist who said so, give one scientific journal article
Give us any evidence - ANY - to support this repeated assertion.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. The world is ALWAYS entering another ice age
The question is simply: WHEN?

Look it up, the Earth had spent 90% of the last million years in an "ice age", so ice ages are really the Earths "normal" state. These 10,000 to 15,000 year warm interglacial periods are really an anomaly and show up as brief spikes when examining long term temperature data.

In a sense, the people who predicted that we were entering an ice age back in the 70's were correct, they simply didn't have the data needed to accurately predict when it was going to occur. The real irony here is that global warming itself may act as a trigger for the next ice age as seawater salinity changes and alters ocean currents as a result of increased runoff from the continents. The northern parts of the world (and by "northern parts", I mean everything outside of the tropics) are only habitable today because ocean currents carry warm equatorial waters north, heating the atmosphere. When those currents fail the weather in Los Angeles will begin resembling the weather in Anchorage.
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momzno1 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. with the melting of the polar ice into the gulf stream we could
be facing an ice age just from that, not warming. Either is Bad, the Earth needs to be able to balance itself.
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America is great Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Just 30 years ago the scientists were in a panic about the next ice age
What happened?
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Ah, so you get Parade Magazine in your Sunday paper!
How nice for you!
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America is great Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. No actually
I lived that era. I am 55 years old. I got caught up in all the hoopla too about:

Global cooling

Running out of oil

Overpopulation

Nuclear War

Now I am older & wiser and realize one cannot allow one's self to get caught up in panics and hoopla.

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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. well, let's see:
*we're running out of oil

*we're overpopulated -- only you, as an American, don't notice, since most of the billions don't drive gas-guzzlers like you do, or eat as much red meat. When they want those things, you're in for a rude shock

*nuclear war -- yeah, we're damn lucky. So far. Notice that the technology is spreading around more and more, though...

*global cooling aka "climate change" -- happening now, buddy...

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America is great Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. to all your statements:
Maybe, but then again --- (and most likely) maybe not,
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. and all those facts...
...to back up your assertions! There's a career in AM talk radio waitin' for ya...!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Please justify "most likely".
Edited on Wed Dec-22-04 01:56 PM by patrice
Unless you're someone un-usual, you're making a bet, just like the rest of us, only on the other side.

And even if you were some kind of expert : ALL scientific findings ALWAYS imply their own negation. That is how science works. Any statement you say for or against anything must be taken within the context of the assumptions contained in the empirical methods that produce that statement. Those assumptions are limitations and there is always more involved in any given phenomenon than the assumptions that we limit it to for the purposes of what we call "knowledge". Science, ergo, never produces 100% truth, only probabilities. As probability, all knowledge contains its own negation, because you never know whether the next instance of any given phenonmenon is going to be on the high side of your probability or on the low side, i.e. an "anomaly", a result of some other cause not contained in your assumptions.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Because something has not happened yet . . . .
does not logically imply that it will not happen.

It means one thing : It hasn't happened yet.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. 30 years is nothing in geologic time....
...and it's also possible that dispersing ice bergs (i.e. via melting ice caps) could also trigger a cooling, as in a century scientists call "The Madhouse Century," where a similar thing happened.

Glib one-liners won't solve the climate crisis, AiG, it'll take real work, and real changes in human behavior, and human assumptions...
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. U.S. per capita emissions of Carbon Dioxide 20.1 metric tons
as of 1998

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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. well, when the climate "goes" you'll notice...
we are tinkering with the finely-tuned balances that have allowed "civilization" to flourish these last 5,000 years...
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. How does the world warm "personally"?
We're not to Christmas in Minnesota (or anywhere else yet), so you're a little bit premature.

How does climate "come and go"? Please, give us more details. Thrill us with your acumen.
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America is great Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. ...and a Happy New Year. I don't think we'll see you here then.
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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. All the hallmarks of a troll
America is Great: let's see, oddly patriotic name (lots of these over in GD), low post count, spews corporate/right wing talking point(s) on a subject but cannot backup assertions with any sort of fact or reference.

Yup, he's a troll. Or just willfully ignorant, but most certainly a troll.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes, I noted those strange linked qualities as well . . ..
Hmm . . .
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. pizza is served
was wondering how long that one would last.
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