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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:06 PM Original message |
BBC: Climate e-mail hack 'will impact on Copenhagen summit' (according to Saudi Arabia’s negotiator) |
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rockymountaindem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:09 PM Response to Original message |
1. I thought I heard somewhere those e-mails were a hoax |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:12 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. They're apparently real, but out of context they are prone to all kinds of bizarre misinterpretation |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. The best propaganda has a germ of truth in it |
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rockymountaindem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:23 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. Thanks |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:24 PM Response to Reply #4 |
8. I have read one that is VERY disturbing |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:26 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. Which bit is disturbing? (nt) |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:37 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Did you read it? |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 02:02 PM Response to Reply #12 |
15. No, because it's huge, and I don't know the context |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. Try this |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 03:08 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. And how did that problem, about 2 years ago, affect the data? |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 04:02 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. You have two choices |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 04:16 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. So here’s the part I don’t get |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 04:59 PM Response to Reply #24 |
25. Grant Money |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:31 PM Response to Reply #25 |
34. So pick other datasets and go with them. GISS for one. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:45 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. Really? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:52 PM Response to Reply #38 |
57. Do you understand the reason for removing the post 1960 data from Biffra's data? |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:34 PM Response to Reply #25 |
48. Which brings us back to a sort of “Prisoner’s Dilemma” |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:54 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. Exactly |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:11 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. Wait a second! |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:17 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. No |
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malakai2 (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 11:11 PM Response to Reply #55 |
71. I'm dealing with a FOI request at work right now |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 07:07 PM Response to Reply #55 |
79. Sorry for the delay |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 09:55 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. FOI requests tend to be generic shotgun sprays. "Please release all data related to X." |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:19 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. So it's not that file that's "VERY disturbing" at all for you, then? |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:53 PM Response to Reply #28 |
39. That file is a starting point |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:08 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. And yet, the 'disturbing' bit turns out to have been talked about in public for at least 11 years |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:21 PM Response to Reply #43 |
46. It is new to me |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:06 PM Response to Reply #46 |
61. So you read the 1998 nature paper describing the details? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 02:03 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. Horseshit. You ARE a denier; your history proves it. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:37 PM Response to Reply #16 |
37. A denier is someone who doesn't accept facts when they are presented. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:09 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. Not really. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:08 PM Response to Reply #44 |
62. I admit that it is obvious he is being informed by sites like WUWT and CA. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:25 PM Response to Reply #4 |
9. Yeah, the emails don't actually throw any doubt on any of the data |
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guardian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:11 PM Response to Reply #9 |
26. Here's some doubt... |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:28 PM Response to Reply #26 |
31. Again, as in #21, how does that affect the data? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:35 PM Response to Reply #31 |
36. The programmer had two problems, 1) he couldn't read code and 2) he didn't like having to make... |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:05 PM Response to Reply #36 |
42. The hacks are probably for the code |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:28 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. Comments from an incompetent programmer. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:10 PM Response to Original message |
2. I am appalled at the naivete of people who are supposed to be such learned scholars |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:14 PM Response to Original message |
5. well I'm sure the Saudi Arabian rep would want to push this meme as hard as possible |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:14 PM Response to Original message |
6. Yes, because they are interested in selling oil. |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:30 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. What, exactly, did scientists do -- specifically - that was "so stupid?" |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. Grafted different datasets together |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 02:05 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. Please specifically substantiate the claims you just made. nt |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:20 PM Response to Reply #13 |
29. If you are talking about the well known decline which has been accounted for... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:01 PM Response to Reply #29 |
41. I'm talking about deleting the post-1960 data from the Briffa set |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:53 PM Response to Reply #41 |
58. Yes, we are. So you don't understand why that is removed? |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 02:00 PM Response to Reply #11 |
14. Write what they wrote in the emails. |
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villager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 02:06 PM Response to Reply #14 |
18. And what did they write in the emails? |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 02:29 PM Response to Reply #18 |
19. I listened to what Prof Michael Mann said on the BBC interview. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:24 PM Response to Reply #19 |
30. Yes, Jones should be fired, but it should be understood that FOI requests are bullshit. |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:29 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. Yep, stuck between a rock and a hard place. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:34 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. Also, when you build a model, that model must be based on empirical evidence. |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:57 PM Response to Reply #35 |
40. delete |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:46 PM Response to Reply #35 |
49. That is debateable |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:00 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. Well, the comments inlcude |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:08 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. Yeah |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 01:05 AM Response to Reply #53 |
76. Have you ever worked with large data sets? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:59 PM Response to Reply #53 |
78. Listen to those crickets... |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:00 PM Response to Reply #49 |
59. Gaven from RealClimate has already stated that those were test cases, and not included in any... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:19 PM Response to Reply #59 |
63. Link? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:21 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Here: |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:34 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. Yeah |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:42 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Do you have evidence that the code in briffa_sep98_d.pro is in fact *not* commented out... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:48 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. I agree |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:16 AM Response to Reply #69 |
74. Since the code has been available for years, it would have happened by now. |
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Nihil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 06:08 AM Response to Reply #63 |
77. I *almost* completely agree ... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:18 PM Response to Reply #30 |
45. Jones is already gone |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:33 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. Do you have a link to Mann's investigation? |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 06:51 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. Link |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:04 PM Response to Reply #45 |
60. In an ideal world, yes. In a capitalist world, no. You pay for data, you don't release it. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:27 PM Response to Reply #60 |
65. We are not talking about the "Capitalist" world Josh and you know it |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 08:46 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Well, we know that most of CRUs data is available except for that which is paid for. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 09:50 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. Not sure what you mean |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-04-09 12:20 AM Response to Reply #70 |
75. No, some of CRUs data, the very morsel that they aren't releasing, was bought from a company. |
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malakai2 (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 11:25 PM Response to Reply #65 |
73. Don't know about Mann's reasons, but |
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Dead_Parrot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 03:19 PM Response to Original message |
22. Because he was totally in favour of cuts 'til that happened. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 05:19 PM Response to Original message |
27. This is a bullshit copout for the failure that is COP15. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 07:32 PM Response to Reply #27 |
56. Agreed |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-03-09 11:15 PM Response to Original message |
72. What would be neat in a thread like this |
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