Bloom vs. Solar: Which One is Best?

[bik0]

Corporate buyers and households will be asked to pick between fuel cells and solar. Here’s how they stack up.

Bloom Energy today formally unveiled its energy server, an industrial solid oxide fuel cell that can convert natural gas or other hydrocarbons into electricity pretty much on demand.

And in the process, the company has ignited a debate over which of the alternatives to coal, nuclear and centralized natural gas plants might be best. Can we answer it today? No -- one of the pivotal factors will be how Bloom's servers (formerly known as Bloom Boxes) perform over time. Board member Colin Powell said at the unveiling that the company doesn't have twenty years of user data.

But we can speculate and compare. And here are some of the key things to keep an eye on.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/bloom-vs.-solar-which-one-is-best/

[cornermouse]

1. I'd like to know when or if they'll be cheap enough

to buy and available to actual consumers.

[Kablooie]

2. I'm waiting for a cold fusion generator to be available at Target.

[bik0]

3. Bloom puts out energy 24/7

That's a huge advantage over wind and solar. And Bloom can operate ANYWHERE. Solar is not practical in northern climates, there are very few areas where wind makes sense - coastal, deserts and plains.

Solar or wind will not provide enough power to power a house or building 100% unless you have a lot of land - another advantage for Bloom.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. 'anywhere' that you have a gas supply

If you have a significant supply of biogas (eg you're a farm or landfill site) then it's carbon neutral. If not, it still runs on fossil fuels. They're claming it's more efficient than a gas turbine, though.

[OnlinePoker]

11. Don't forget you have to connect wind and solar to the grid...

...with all the inherent transmission losses. With Bloom, the power is produced at the end user. If there is already natural gas in a location there wouldn't be much more to do to hook up a system. The issue comes when everybody has a Bloom Box in their house. Where is the excess gas going to come from to feed into them? There's only so much biogas that can be produced without a major ramping up of that infrastructure, and the past couple of years of surplus natural gas doesn't mean it will always be that way.

[OKIsItJustMe]

12. Bloom Energy recommends connecting their system to the grid

http://www.bloomenergy.com/benefits/energy-security/

...

• The systems can operate in grid parallel mode — the grid provides a great backup and surge handler.

...

http://www.bloomenergy.com/benefits/more-benefits-and-applications/

...

Reverse Backup: Businesses often purchase generators and other expensive backup applications that sit idle 99% of the time, while they purchase their electricity from the grid as their primary source. The Bloom solution allows customers to flip that paradigm, by using the Energy Server as their primary power, and only purchasing electricity from the grid to supplement the output when necessary. Increased asset utilization leads to dramatically improved ROI for Bloom Energy's customers.

...

[OKIsItJustMe]

13. Bloom may not be appropriate for use in "northern climates"

http://c0688662.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/downloads_pdf_Bloomenergy_DataSheet_ES-5000.pdf

...

Standard temperature range | 0° to 40° C (extreme weather kit available)

...

[OKIsItJustMe]

4. Both & Neither

They both have advantages and disadvantages in different applications.

Most importantly, solar is the ultimate renewable energy source.

Today, devices like the Bloom Box can be deployed quickly, to provide relatively clean energy, relatively cheaply.

---

Conceivably in the future, both may be used in concert, reversing the Bloom Box to store solar energy in the form of fuel for use when the sun is not shining.

[OnlinePoker]

5. Here's something that is different from the other threads

In this article, it says "A 100-kilowatt Bloom server array costs around $700,000 to $800,000, or $7,500 a kilowatt, after incentives that cover around 50 percent of the costs."

In the other threads on this subject, thread authors are taking the incentive value off of the $700k to $800k and peg the price per unit at around $350k. Which is right?

[bik0]

6. The $350K was derived by using the $700K and applying a 20% state credit and 30% federal credit.

[OnlinePoker]

7. That's not what this article says

It says the cost will be $700k after incentives.

[OKIsItJustMe]

8. I'd say someone has made a mistake

It could be the several articles which said one thing, or this article which said something else.

[bik0]

9. The article is wrong. It's $700K BEFORE incentives.

[kristopher]

14. Which is better, the car's engine or the gasoline?

You haven't got a clue...

The fuel cell has to have an input of STORED ENERGY.

Therefore the actual question you are asking for the Bloom fuel cell is: Which is better natural gas and a fuel cell or solar and a battery?

[OKIsItJustMe]

15. The question is the headline of the article cited in the OP

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/bloom-vs.-solar-which-one-is-best

Bloom vs. Solar: Which One is Best?

Corporate buyers and households will be asked to pick between fuel cells and solar. Here’s how they stack up.

...

Which is better to do first? Shoot off your mouth or ask questions?

[kristopher]

16. No questions are needed.

The poster and I had a discussion on the topic yesterday - that's why biko made the op.

Which is better to do first? Shoot off your mouth or ask questions?

[OKIsItJustMe]

17. Perhaps you should twice before criticizing others

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

- Mark Twain

[kristopher]

18. Perhaps *you* should twice before criticizing others

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain