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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:17 AM
Original message
why we went HYBRID -- it's bigger than you think
I've wanted to "go public" with this for some time, but couldn't. Not until my husband was free.

For the last year and a half we have been prisoners in a massive slave ring -- a vast conspiracy of government and corporate interests employing advanced mind-control techniques designed for nothing less than global domination.

Even though I was certain I could "bring down the whole damn house of cards," I was shamed into silence -- an otherwise intelligent, caring individual -- I turned against my family and friends and all my upbringing. Instead of "being a hero," I did everything I could to protect my "masters." That's how complete the control is -- I would have given everything to continue serving in their "cult."

When I opened my eyes to the real operation "behind the curtain," it was obvious it went all the way to the top -- to the Saudi Royals, the Bush Crime Family -- and our "contact," an old cabal of german capitalists -- the Bavarian Motor Works.

It started out innocently enough many years ago. We were young and idealistic...

My boyfriend was a traveling musician. I was a sometimes art, sometimes philosophy student at East Tennessee State. We courted, driving around in his car. Our first date: he took me to see my aunt in Kingsport along an old trade road that I had never seen before. I was impressed.

Driving was always more than a means of transportation for us. A good in itself. I crave the long form. My husband prefers speed and precision. He taught me how to "drive." I taught him how "ride."

We rarely had two dimes to rub together, but with the help of our friends, in the form of band mates, room mates, and soul mates, we made a rich life with "nothing to do" in the mountains. Thanks to an insanely cheap cost of living, we could afford lots of spare time, vast quantities of beer and cool old apartments in our depressed little town. If you were to ask yourself the question, "what is the good life," you would be hard-pressed not to recognize some little chunk of it in this. Except for the fact that the mountains are also home to a disturbingly aggressive form of psycho-religious conservatism -- and making money was out of the question -- it was paradise.

We left the mountains so he could help form a band in Nashville. After an up-close view of the smelly end of the music biz (that's the "biz" part), the band mates settled into jobs and got on with the business of raising families, etc. No family for us, though. As if to fill the void of an empty nest, we got dogs and cars, in that order.

And that's where the trouble started.

Until yesterday our primary car was a convertible BMW 323. Loaded. "Nice ride" doesn't cover it. It was crack. A completely irrational, self-propagating addiction. We could afford it. He figured, "why not." I asked, "why?" but still came under its spell. It was a symbiotic relationship at first, taking me back and forth to my suckass corporate marketing job in astonishing speed, and slicing as much as four hours off my usual 12-hour red-eye to/from Florida.

For me, the dark side of my addiction took the form of protection -- do anything, just leave me the car.

For my husband, the dark side was aggression: driving everywhere fast, grinding into cloverleaf ramps, and (there's no pretty way of saying this) tailgating. There was an additional effect that can only described as sexual. He'd spend whole weekends preening, rubbing, exchanging fluids. It was disgusting, his devotion. I'm not exaggerating when I say we had to see a therapist to intervene.

Then, tragedy struck.

My suckass corporate marketing job was eliminated in a merger. Simultaneously, but unrelated, a condition in my spine began expressing itself chronically, as near-constant, debilitating pain. With a little help from my doctors, I am fairly successful at keeping the worst of the disability at bay. The assumption was I would find another job on short order.

The back condition forced me to ask who would care for the house. I was bad enough at housekeeping when I had a 100 percent of my health. With the added burden of a broken back, new job for me would mean we would either have to hire help or settle for a lot less in the way "living": relaxing around the house with the dogs; cooking; housekeeping; improving; landscaping; entertaining.

I come from a family of servants. It's not insignificant, psychologically, to be a servant -- and the one thing my mother hoped for me was to not be someone's "slave," to use her language. Oh sure, the obvious thing is "hiring help" makes you the Master for once, but that's the mistake SUV-driving restricted-community-dwelling reptiles make: "a good life" is one without labor, especially "drudge" labor..."women's work." Happiness is the result of climbing the corporate ladder -- it has a universal symbol and it is "$."

Outsourcing your life is not an answer -- it's a symptom. Employing servants enslaves you to your master: your suckass corporate marketing job. This is the real problem -- and the cool thing is, I believe we are ready for it. I think we can do this. Dig the revolutionary messages coming from the most unlikely places -- Martha Stewart, Jamie Oliver, Nigella Lawson:
Stay home...
enjoy your life...
cook some more.
It got so bad they had to put poor Martha in jail, because if people took her too seriously, shopped only at Kmart and baked their own bread -- things would be seriously different in this county.

The lie we fall for over and over again is women's work has no value, or at least 25 percent less dollar value expressed as a wage. How does this square with reality?

Where is most people's nest egg? In their house. We have zero money in the bank, but we damn sure have savings in our houses (at least for the time-being). Given these circumstances, one person staying home, cultivating the investment makes a whole lot of sense. Maybe there's even stuff you can do while you are at home that further adds to your family's value. Childcare? Renovating? Taking on a little freelance while pursuing/finishing some lifelong interest. Maybe this will give you time to help care for an ailing parent, or mentor a child. Run for office, or work for your party.

I began to identify ways to simplify our life. The car was an obvious target, but neither of us could pull the trigger, which literally gave us physical and emotional symptoms.

According to the Center for American Progress, lower- and middle-income households spend more on transportation than any other item except for housing. The guy driving the least efficient vehicle on the road today -- the Hummer -- gets a $25,000 tax credit, while funding terrorism to the tune of 9 mpg. Compare that to the guy driving the cleanest, most efficient hybrid -- $2,000. It isn't easy being green. At least at first glance.

Where does the money go when we swipe our card at the pump? We hear that oil companies are having record profits, and boy, that makes us mad. We also hear heated discussion about something called, "peak oil." Surely that's where the money is going -- R & D. Surely they are researching new technologies. Right?

Wrong. As The New York Times reported in February:
"Thanks to crude prices that averaged $41 a barrel in New York last year, the world's 10 biggest oil companies earned more than $100 billion in 2004, a windfall greater than the economic output of Malaysia. Together, their sales are expected to exceed $1 trillion for 2004, which is more than Canada's gross domestic product.

Even as fears of shortages grow throughout the world and prices remain high, the cash-rich oil companies are not pouring a large portion of their money into their basic business: drilling for oil. Indeed, oil executives, in their second straight year of rising profits, are finding that too much money is chasing too few oil fields. Instead, they are giving much of their cash back to shareholders."

When I pay $2.50 a gallon for gasoline -- a full dollar more than what I was paying when I bought my last pair of Birkenstocks -- I AM PUTTING CASH MONEY INTO THE HANDS OF TERRORISTS (the corrupt regimes and oil companies responsible for the war, the Patriot Act, ect). Last weekend we learned that the oil wars will expand to Iran and will most likely involve a nuclear attack. As Bush breaks all presidential vacationing records this month in Crawford (the illegal Western White House), you can bet he will learn all about of this next phase of his "war presidency." To say the stakes are high, just doesn't put a fine enough point on it.

So lets attach a dollar amount. If gas was a buck-fifty five years ago, and I filled-up my 20-gallon tank twice a week to drive to my suckass corporate marketing job, I spent 30 bucks a tank of gas, and 60 bucks a week. Last week that same tank of gas would have cost me 50 bucks, or 100 bucks a week. That's a DONATION OF 40 DOLLARS A WEEK to their oil war. You got that? What can you do with 40 bucks a week? 160 bucks a month. Approximately $2,000 dollars A YEAR. Who wouldn't love to have that money back at the end of the year? 2,000 bucks. What's that? a vacation? tuition? or is it the difference between being able to afford your healthcare costs? Credit card bills. How about the mortgage?

At a time when the buzzwords on energy in the press are "peak oil," "100 dollars a barrel," and most frighteningly, "petro 'euro" -- the energy industry isn't even bothering to explore new fields, new technology or alternate fuels. I am right now at this moment listening to a conclusion on NPR's "Talk of the Nation" concerning "energy independence." The discussion is that people don't have good choices. I'll agree with that to a certain extent. I would love to walk to the grocery store, ride the rail to see relatives and telecommute.

But in the meantime I do have one choice that trumps them all -- the CHOICE NOT TO BE A SLAVE TO MY CAR OR MY JOB. It's about me, my life and how I will live it.

Sure, it took the threat of nuclear war, but against this backdrop, we sold the car.



Take that Dick Cheney. I'll keep what's left of my life, and my 2,000 bucks this year.

I am writing this for one reason -- to expose the lie the oil companies, the Bush Crime Family, the Saudi Royals and every car manufacturer needs us to believe: that our cars are sacrosanct -- that there is no crisis, no condition of life, worth the sacrifice of our automobiles.

You are not your car. It does not deserve your protection. You are not its slave. It is time to get free. At least a little more free than yesterday.





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jasmeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. A hybrid is my next purchase!!! I'm so excited! n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. we LOVE our civic -- here's something we didn't expect...
it's so quiet! how quiet is it?

on of my dogs has separation anxiety "to the max." i could go broke giving him a greenie everytime i left the house. the noise of the car starting up would set him off like a firecracker.

he doesn't even notice the civic leaving. nothing.

no more anxiety. he still gets greenies -- just not to placate his panic. :)
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BedRock Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Great Post!
Everything you said! That is why we are considered the neighborhood "drop-outs" or "hippies"! We are currently driving 13 year old Toyota and Subaru (30 mpg each), BUT we have just put a deposit on a Honda Insight! YIPEE!!!

I am sooooo excited and can't wait to get it!! heeehee!
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. good for you! and super-congrats on the insight -- that's what we wanted.
and really --whatever happened to those old Metros. 3-cylinder... 50mpg with no fancy engineering. great commuter cars.

you neighbors are gonna LOVE seeing the "hippies" in their space vehicle!
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BedRock Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Cackle, cackle, heehee
Oh! I'd forgotten about those! Those were great!

We live in ultra-red country. Ollie North bumper stickers, etc. So I love tweaking their "values" and their sense of "proper." I think a vivid blue Insight parked among the big boring color SUVs will be a statement..."f"U

Now, if I could only think of something else to piss them off with....
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. BUMPERSTICKERS!
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BedRock Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. BUT! I have
a husband that gets embarrassed over some of the crap I pull.

I gotta be subtle, which hurts me greatly. He is such a great guy, so I don't want to cause to much greif....gotta me sneaky....umm, and innocent.

O8)
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. well, then -- find honor simply in the fact that you are driving
a radical car that shouts in it's very design, "the future is here and it's very different that what you are accustomed to!"

my hubby isn't a fan of the bumpersticker either, but there's been LOTS of things he wasn't a fan of that i turned him on to.

eating his veggies
going to protests
birkenstocks
the beach
cream in his coffee
dogs
my dinner with andre
ironing
relaxing on sunday
and much much more, including the incredible, simple pride in having a simple message on the rear bumber ("we are being lied to" is the one he feel in love with -- i made it myself).

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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. Great commuter cars? Are you nuts?
Those 3-cyl Metros were complete, total DEATHTRAPS. They had the highest injury & death rate of any car on the road while they were in production (an honor now held by the Kia Rio).

I'd happily burn more gas to get some assurance of arriving at work alive. Safety, and high mileage are not mutually exclusive by any means, but they sure were in those shitty Geo Metros.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. i know plenty of folks who drove metros for years and are still among the
living. i used to get the same argument about my miata -- how can drive that in traffic! aren't you worried about safety?

The New Yorker had a great story on this phenomena a couple of years ago. they looked at the marketing and consumer reaction to SUVs. in terms of perception, the feature people associate with safety is CUP HOLDERS. you read that right. cup holders. it was a long article, but the gist is that there are two kinds of drivers: active and passive. passive drivers tend to like lots of care wrapped around them b/c they trust their ability to, well, drive. they think the extra stuff around them that makes the car seem like a living room, FEELS safer. hence the cup holder perception. the reasoning goes even deeper. these drivers believe there is nothing they can do to avoid an accident. they believe their fate is out of their control.

i'm a driver, and probably a control freak. i like to have communication between the road and the cockpit. i like a small footprint and engineering that facilitates active driving.

and hey, people ride motorcycles -- without helmets! people ride bikes next to cars in "bike lanes." these vehicles don't offer any protection. it's not what the people are looking for when they buy them.

and remember -- it's not how big a car is -- we know SUVs are way more unsafe than cars because of their structural engineering. they don't have crumple zones. they are basically trucks with a top wrapped around them. they flip. think jeeps. still, the perception lives on.
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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. The numbers don't lie.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/previous/ictl_0994.pdf

The Metro scores 'substantially worse than average' in both two and four door version in injury rates & collision damage (compared with the Saab 900, whose rates are half that with a 1979 design...hmmm). The Metro was barely better than a tin can in a collision. Your friends were lucky.

I agree that a car that drives well, is engineered well, and communicates road conditions to the driver is safer, given a skilled driver. If someone seriously relates #'s of cup holders to safety than they're freaking insane. My Saab 9-5 wagon that my wife & toddler ride in has one cupholder, and it's amongst the safest 2 or 3 cars you can buy. And in fact, it performs very nicely. I'd take it over a Miata - there's no substitute for size and the Swedish obsession for safety, all other things being equal.

and hey, people ride motorcycles -- without helmets! people ride bikes
next to cars in "bike lanes." these vehicles don't offer any protection.
it's not what the people are looking for when they buy them.


According to the Insurance Information Institute (www.iii.org):
# Motorcyclists were 32 times as likely as passenger car occupants to die in a crash in 2003, per vehicle mile traveled.

# The fatality rate for motorcyclists was 4.6 times the fatality rate for passenger car occupants per registered vehicle in 2003.

SUVs are even worse than you mention: with the rigid frame, they'll transmit impact forces to the passengers and can cause terrible internal injuries even if the crumple zones (such as they are) do their job. The book High and Mighty goes through SUV safety in great and fascinating detail.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. telling a Metro driver they'd be better off w/a Saab
is like telling a hungry, homeless man he really should try the porterhouse at Morton's.

i just spent the afternoon with the child i mentor. he has asperger's and is quite the little genius. but bless his heart -- he wears me out. no one lives up to his ideal for being smart, safe, economical etc. one of the main goals of our time together is to help him learn to relate people where THEY are. otherwise, i'm afraid he's going to one day be a smart, lonely man.

safety isn't everyone's issue in buying a car. some people just need cheap transportation.

fuel economy isn't everyone's issue -- some people need speed to be happy; or need 4-wheel drive to climb the mountain up to their house.

i loved my miata. swedish cars do nothing for me. i also don't care for kippers, cocaine or hockey. i'm sure all those things have their appeal to people who consume them and i would never presume to impose my tastes on hopped-up, salty fish-loving wayne gretzky fans.
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
62. According to my insurance agent
Insights and Priuses are two very safe cars. I don't know about the other hybrids.

At least your old Metro was not a Pinto.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. Those Old Metros All Fell Apart after Not Very Many Miles
A friend of ours had one. Transmission went out at 30,000 miles.
Other major problems too.

GM doesn't really know how to make small cars.

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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. So, what are you getting?
Congratulations on your breaking free!!

I'm not very familiar with the hybrids - what are the mpg's? (I notice they still use gasoline)

Btw, I am not car-dependent either. I moved so I would be less than a mile to work and daycare and don't drive much. It is liberating and I am just so-not-noticing the high gas prices.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. we are getting almost 50, city driving. less on the highway.
my husband is obsessed with maximizing the mileage, using the instrumentation feedback.

this is the most comfortable car we have ever had -- compared to everything from a chevy celebrity to a jeep cherokee and a miata.

our ultimate goal is one day live in a city where driving isn't required. my vote is for new orleans or portland oregon.
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. My Insight does better than advertised
My Insight lifetime MPG is 68. I know what your husband is experiencing, because instead of the speed demon I've been, my driving habits have radically shifted and I'm optimizing everything.

I love the Fuel Consumption Display. It really does let you know just what everything you do does to your gas mileage. And last week, 3 out of 5 morning commutes got me over the 80 mpg mark.

But if I have to head to the grocery store, I walk. It's only a few blocks away and I save even more gas not driving.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. it is so cool to be in a car with him not hot-dogging all the damn time :)
you should have seen him in my miata! simply incorrigible.

damn! 68 mpg! you rock! i bet you get lots of conversation on the rare occassion you visit the gas pump. :)
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
49. If I Could Impose One Federal Mandate on the Car Industry
I would require MPG displays on all new cars.

Let everyone see how much gas their cars SUCK when they step on the gas.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #49
58. Unfortunately ...
... that would simply lead to the new craze of "trying to get the
gauge to go to zero".

(When my car was off the road, I relied on a lift from a chap with
a 4WD wannabe rally car. He used to really love the way that the needle
on the "Turbo" gauge almost exactly mirrored that on the "MPG" gauge.)
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. They Love That Until the Gas Gauge Reads "E" (Very Soon)...
...and somewhat less when the pump reads "$60.00" after they're done filling it up.
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. It's depressing watching your fuel consumption MPG drop
Imagine you're in a Hummer waiting for the light to turn green....

Some friends seeing the 82.2 mpg I got yesterday said I could go for miles on the same gas it takes a Hummer to start the ignition.

Incidentally, some SUVs and trucks will take E85, which costs a lot less than regular unleaded.
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. I know a few people who'd agree
They drive gas-only cars and have ridden in my Insight, one actually got to drive it on a road trip.

They wish their cars had the fuel consumption display, the guy that drove my car says he's going to try to do in his car why he could see worked in mine.

He drives a four door Saturn and gets in the high 40s. He's a very economical driver to start with.
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. Great post
I am with you 100%. I try to drive as little as possible. It would be easier if I start riding my bike more, but I haven't gotten into that habit quite yet.

Did you end up buying a Hybrid then or are you going car free?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. we live in an area that requires car travel
but as a fan of urbanism, we moved to a neighborhood where we don't have to drive long distances to do any of our daily life -- except work.

when i was working it was 30-45 min commute twice a day. i filled the tank twice a week. it was horrible. i was driving from my nice, walking neighborhood out to a far suburb. my husband works downtown nashville, so he only has to drive 10 minutes -- more or less depending on whether school is in session. he passes thru 3 school zones on the way to work.

when the weather is nice he usually uses his motorcycle which gets almost the same mpg as the hybrid.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
51. The Fly in the "Walkable" Ointment
driving from my nice, walking neighborhood out to a far suburb.

We lived in the city for a few years. Could walk to stores and the T.
No good jobs in the city though. Low pay. Layoffs. Bouncing paychecks.
All the good engineering jobs were out in the burbs.

So we had to commute out of the city by car. Couldn't get there any other way (did it by bike a few times, took 3 hours).

Convenient local stores usually closed by the time we got home.
Started missing out on the cultural events that had drawn us to
the city because we couldn't get back from work in time.

Eventually concluded that we might as well live out in the sticks
(somewhere between her workplace and mine).

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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. tell it to my scooter
nice post
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. mopeds and scooters were my first forms of transportation
when i lived at the beach. god, i loved my scooters! they are so much cooler now than they were in the late 70s, early 80s.
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
41. Shout out to a fellow scooter rider....
75 mpg for me and that's in the city. Since October, I've used 18 gallons of gas. I'm trying to keep it below 20 for the year.
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ihaveaquestion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'd LOVE to buy a hybrid, but...
my truck is paid off and right now I can't afford the added car payment. My little truck gets 20+ mpg (not too terrible) and I'm checking out routes for biking to work.

But, someday soon, someday...

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/hhybrid/index.html?s_van=GM_TN_HIGHLANDERHYBRID
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. we have an old ford truck that is WAY paid off
and will never let go of it. it's a must-have for taking stuff to the dump and working on the house. i love that thing, it's my buddy.

and yes -- while having a hybrid is a good thing -- having NO payment and BIKING to work would be far preferable! when i moved to tennessee from florida i was shocked (shocked!) that there were no bike paths. i tried to ride my bike to school and downtown to the gym and nearly got run over every time. that was in kingsport which was totally unfriendly to bike traffic. nashville is a little better. our mayor is re-lining many city streets to add a bike lane -- which is not nearly as safe as having an off-road path. but it's a start and the good news is that people are really using them!
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. If it's diesel, you can burn biodiesel too.
Biodiesel can be poured straight into the fuel tank of any diesel vehicle and will run without any modifications. The original creator of the Diesel engine designed it to run on peanut oil! The fuel industry craftily named "diesel" fuel, thus making people assume that Diesel engines had to run on "diesel" fuel.

Minor modifications can be made to increase the longevity of older systems running biodiesel. For instance, biodiesel can eat away at rubber fuel lines. Therefore, many biodiesel users change out the rubber hoses for a synthetic material known as viton.


http://www.ci.tacoma.wa.us/solidwaste/RCSP/Summer04/biodiesel.html
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. I love pulling up to the biodiesel pump in my little Jetta.
But then I've never been a car person. OTOH, my husband is a recovering car fanatic. The Jetta now occupies the #1 position in his list of all time favorites, displacing his old Carrera and BMW.

Great post! I always enjoying your writing (such a gift!).
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. i am totally honored. thank you!
we are car geeks, for sure! we drove all the VWs and were AMAZED at the power in the 6-cylinder jettas and golfs (can't remember the correct name). i was actually a little frightened at the power in the golf...it could easily get away from you!

in the little mountain town i finished high school in -- kingsport -- the diesel VWs were all the rage. eastman has a plant there and the PhDs really went for the diesel engines. my family, unfortunately bought the diesel oldsmobile which was dubbed "The Dis-iesel." that poor thing was a mess!
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. Can I ask why you chose the Civic over the Accord?
We're looking at getting a hybrid and have been considering the Accord. We've had one before, although not a hybrid, so we like it a lot. Did you look at that model and, if so, why go with the Civic? Maybe we need to consider that model, instead, but I'm curious as to the viewpoints of someone who has experience with the model outside of the showroom.

Thanks! :hi:

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. the accord uses the hybrid engine for power-assist, rather than
fuel economy, so the mpg is less -- 29 city -- which wasn't much better than the bmw. we got about 25 in the bimmer.

if you want a little more splash with your mpg, consider the Prius and the Lexus.

when you get right down to it -- we chose the civic b/c it was available, there were incentives, and we really feel in love with it when we drove it. we wanted an Insight -- 60+mpg and super-cool styling -- but we couldn't find one in the time we wanted to do the deal.

carmax is a good resource for checking availability of used hybrids. if you know what you want, you can have them transfer a vehicle from any dealership to yours. there is a fee depending on how far the car is from your dealership, but if it is within a small enough range, the fee is only $150 and is applied to your purchase.

we actually found a prius at carmax, but it was 18,800 with 10K miles and the civic was new, for that exact price AND we get the tax benefit.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Thanks!
I've had Civics before (starting with a CRX that I loved), so I know they're great cars. The feeling you have about the car right now will probably never fade. Mine never did. I was just very curious about the difference(s) between the hybrids Honda makes and you answered that question! :hi:
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
14. And when you gotta fill up....CITGO is the way to go.
I believe all the foreign oil they buy is from Venezuela.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. yes indeedy, and they are right in our little neighborhood.
we love our citgo!
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
48. Too Bad No Citgo in the Bay Area. No Hess Either
One of the bluest places in the country but no blue oil companies.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. Nashville Brook - I LOVE your writing. Great post. n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. gosh, my head might get big
i'm all excited today b/c i've been asked to contribute to the Southern Medical Journal. they need an opinion piece from a patient perspective on why medicine and religion don't mix -- something i've had a bad experience with.

http://johnsoncity.blogspot.com/2005/03/pharmacists-to-have-right-to-reject.html

i'm just so happy to contribute to this debate!

well, any debate, really. :)
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Off -Topic, but I just read the piece you posted about the Pervert Doctor.
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 02:17 PM by Pooka Fey
I can't even post my thoughts about this. I'm so sorry that happened to you. You ran into a sexual predator wearing a white coat - someone you SHOULD have been able to trust. There is NOTHING religious about that perp - he uses his Xtianity as a smokescreen for his unspeakably foul and malevolent actions. There is very little that's worse than an experience like this. :hug:

On edit: Sorry that this is completely off-topic to the thread. When I hear about experiences like this my blood starts boiling.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. yeah, i can't WAIT to see the opinion i write in print
this was many years ago and the practice was soon disowned by the parent "company," North Side Hospital. i also found out that the docs had moved to the mountains b/c they had been run off from a few other communities for "unorthodox methods." that was the way the official report read -- but you bet it had to do with sexual predation. hmmm -- is that a word?
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Wells Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. Where's the conspiracy?
Congratulations on buying a hybrid, but the Honda is a 1st Generation model that cannot evolve to Nex Gen Hybrid. The Prius and the Ford Escape 'type of Hybrid' can, and in so doing achieve 120+ mpg and a long list of benefits far beyond high mileage. The conspiracy I hoped to read was why Bush dropped Al Gore's Hybrid R&D for Hydrogen fuel cell, a technology so impractical and inapplicable, it is a preposterous hoax. Is General Motors lying to the public about their fuel cell prototypes? Why is the Hybrid potential unpublished in most media sources?

Nex Gen Hybrid's benefits beyond high mileage:

1. Homepower and electricity storage.
2. Industries that cannot be outsourced.
3. Invaluable vehicle safety features
4. Increased vehicle longevity
5. Perfected combustion and emission reduction
5. All fuels applicability
6. Influence upon urban planning that strengthes local economies.
7. Beneficial influence upon non-car modes of travel.
8. Reduction in costs of living.
9. Increased local autonomy that disempowers corporate control.

All these benefits and more are the future. Hydrogen is being promoted because it is a fuel automakers believe they can use to maintain control and delay their inevitable loss of control.

Cars are a Constitution Inequity. The real problem with them is that we drive too much, too far, for too many purposes. They present a severe impediment upon other means of travel. They direct development which requires their use, our purchase and finance, insure, fuel, maintain, repair, replace and dedicate all construction and land-use to their monopoly. They are a link-in-the-chain of the global economy. All media are corrupted by the buying power of auto-related interests.

I loved much of your story, Nashvillebrook, but it merely scratched the surface. If you understand any of this post, dig deeper. The Next Generation Plug-in Hybrid is the quitessential electric car that will build cities into places where far fewer people will need to drive them.







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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. i think you have the drift of the conspiracy i speak of
it's the totality of car-life.

i actually edited this down tremendously. right you are that it only scratches the surface. i'm working some of this out for a book proposal -- my focus will be on simplified living.

what's cool is that since i first posted this story (first time i've felt i needed to go back and edit a post to re-post) there has been so much interest and discussion on the topic. i think it's an issue that people can participate in and get excited about. a small thing -- but it's all the small things that add up.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. Slavery? Government conspiracy? Mind control? Tin foil hats?
Is this worth my time to read?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. nope
:)
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BushCheatey Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
27. Americanizing the Hybrid vision
We just bought a Prius to replace my wife's car. We love it. My wife is anything but a car person, but she giggles every time she gets in the car (partly due to the fact that she doesn't even have to fish her key out of her purse and also because of having a joystick for a gearshift and a computer in the dash). Her old car was an Eagle Talon with the 8-valve engine. It was much less powerful than the DOHC model, but it did get 38 mpg, and was very reliable. The Prius seats 5, (we need more room than the Civic or Insight provides) and advertises 60 mpg in the city, but that is a bit high. I was however able to get 57 MPG over a 3-day run while I was using the car, but I was driving VERY conservatively. The fuel mileage display, and energy distribution display is a good thing. it makes saving fuel a game, and would be a good addition to any car.
I have also driven a Honda Insight with the 6 speed manual trans. The main difference between the Honda system and the Toyota system as I understand is that the Honda is primarily a gas drive with electric boost while the Toyota is primarily an electric drive with a gas boost. In the Prius if you accelerate slowly the gas engine will not even start for several miles. The car will go as fast as 40 mph under electric power only. This mode is so quiet that the owner’s manual warns about watching out in parking lots and such because people don't hear you coming.
There was recently an article entitled "Hybrid Hype" about some of the newer hybrid offerings. It mentioned that the mpg of the Accord was only a couple of miles per gallon higher than the standard accord. Is it the same with the Civic? At first consideration I thought that Hybrid technology was being reduced to nothing more than a marketing gimmick, but now I see that it is useful because by making an efficient, reliable little 4 cylinder more peppy it is now palatable to someone who craves a little more speed, and might have otherwise bought a totally inefficient 6 or 8 cylinder vehicle.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. no, not the same with the civic. the accord uses the hybrid engine to
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 10:30 AM by nashville_brook
power-assist. kinda like a turbo. it's a power thing.

our civic is peppy! and quiet and the easiest car to love.

we drove a prius! oh what a wonderful car! the one we found was used, tho -- and we didn't want to spend the extra cabbage to go new on the prius. my hubby was a little heartbroken about that. he was WAY into the keyless entry!

cars revolutionized the US when al gore sr started the highway system. freedom to travel this huge hunk of land, you know. my hope is that the hybrids create a small, new revolution. something for everyone. cheaper with the gas. lots of exploring to do in terms of "tuning." the speed thing is quite cool. there's a small bit of independence to be had by going hybrid. in a world that seems to be closing in on the freedom front -- it's a pallative. a tonic. not a cure -- but damn it feels better!
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BushCheatey Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Yes the cash outlay is a little discouraging
but the tax credit will take away a little of the sting. Paying a premium over sticker kinda frosted my nads, but my father in law just bought a Solara convertible and had to pay a premium on it as well. I figure if we want out we can probably get most of our money back as used Prius' values are extremely high.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. we got our civic for 18,800... i couldn't believe how cheap they were!
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Bamboo Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
36. Diaries used to be private,now they are on the internet.
Things change radically so those who are on the edge are the most likely to survive,I scratch my head when Daimler-Chrysler does not introduce the SMART microcar in America because it is the future along with hybrids.

When people see the SMART car they worry about the safety of such a small vehicle.They smoke cigarettes and keep their gun loaded but a small car really bothers them.If I want to own a microcar and risk my safety that should be my choice,one can ride a motorcycle without a helmet or talk on the phone while driving,even use the speaker phone and hold the screen in front of their face at 75mph.

People want to think they made the right choice and something radically different from their choice they see as foolish which is a psychological defense mechanism.I had orthodontics recently and the comment I heard most was "I need to get that done myself" they never did so what they said translates to "you are making me self-conscience by doing something I should do"

The Toyota brand has been enhanced by hybrids,brand management is where profit is enhanced not selling vehicles by the pound.Meterosexual styling of cars like the Lexus SC430 is popular,you could put a speedo on them and the birthday cake colors would work in a New Urban community.I was talking to a Canadian at Disneyworld and I said that they should get some real money like the euro,he turned on a dime and said it was good enough to get him here.

http://www.threepointmotors.com/inventory/detail.aspx?id=14146
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Cute little car, $19K, 45 mpg, NOT FOR SALE IN USA.
<snip>
Here is a top of the line Smart coupe in the "Passion" edition. This car comes with air conditioning, Smart sound package, I-Pod car kit, electrical adjusted and heated mirrors, luggage compartment cover, style line Alloy wheels, Clock and rev counter, Smart Softouch, and lockable drawer under the seat. Smart cars are for sale in Canada only and cannot be exported to the US.
<snip>





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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. At 45 MPG, I Do Not See A Market For This Car
Edited on Wed Aug-10-05 09:48 AM by loindelrio
When I was looking into this car a while back, I could not find MPG data. But I do remember that the price was about the cost of a Civic/Corolla.

The VW Golf/Jetta/Bug TDI (diesel) with 5-speed get 40-50 mpg. If VW would look into the future a little and offer a smaller TDI engine in these models (70 HP+/- econo model) we could get into the 50-60 mpg range (unfortunately they seem to be moving in the 'performance' direction, like everyone else).

A pluggable Prius, with a 20 mi. electric only range, would yield 100 mpg (equivalent) based on typical driving patterns, and would be $5-7k more than the 'Smart' car.

Personally, I think the future for the 'Smart Car' form factor is as a stripped down electric or limited range flex fuel PHEV for commuting (read underpowered), if they can get the price down.

When you can get a Honda Civic HEV that gets better mileage for a little more (or the same?) money . . .

On edit: I found this snippet in an article. I was bothered by the 45 MPG rating. The article notes 60 MPG for the gasser variant. This makes the Smart look a little more viable.

Up north, meanwhile, Canadian drivers will get two-seater smart cars starting in September. In fact, they'll have two models to chose from that get around 70 mpg because they're diesels, not gasoline-powered.

The models use what's called common rail diesel, a technology that's cleaner than older diesel engines. The top speed is 75 mph and prices start around $12,100 for the coupe and $15,170 for the cabriolet.







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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. a cabriolet version of that car would be too cute for words
i think the basic form of the car is screaming for a more efficient engine -- which will prolly come along as the car evolves.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. I GOOFED !!! Smart Car 45 Kilometers per liter = 107.55 MPG
At least I think I goofed - I saw mpg on the link to the Smartcar and thought, mpg --- I didn't notice the little (km) that was there. I'm assuming that means Kilometers per liter which converts to 107.55 MPG which is a big difference in the marketability of this car. Heck my old 78 Datsun B210 got 45 MPG, so I'd hope we can do a little better than that now that it's 27 years later. :eyes:

Link:
http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/kilometers_per_liter
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. EPA says 37mpg
Edited on Wed Aug-10-05 04:33 PM by happyslug
But I suspect that number was do to the testing methodology of the EPA (The EPA had to over-rev the engine to get it up to the speed required in the test thus destroying the Fuel Economy). Chrysler/Daimler is contesting the results but until it is resolved you will NOT see the Smart Car in the US.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/CONSUMER/031105_nw_smart_car.html


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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. Why Pay 19K for a Phone Booth on Wheels...
...when you can get a Civic Hybrid for virtually the same price
and get better mileage?

You can spend a little more and buy a Prius and get even better mileage.

That car is overpriced by at least 100%.

The one good thing about it is that it would be a dream to park in the city.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. When Peak Oil Digs In - A Bargain At Twice The Price
At some stations in LA and SF - self serve regular is at $3.00.

Peak oil is not over the horizon -- it is here now -- first stages.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. But The Civic Hybrid and the Prius Burn Even Less Gasoline
The Civic Hybrid only costs a few hundred dollars more. It can seat 4, and burns LESS fuel. Also pollutes less.
The only advantage the Smart seems to have is that it can fit into a smaller parking space.

The Smart looks extremely cute. The mileage is only slightly better
than my 11-year old Civic Del Sol though, and that's a lot more fun.
It would be a great car at about the $9-$10K price point. At $19K,
the hybrids seem like a much better deal.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
47. Hybrids Rock! And They Can Move, Too
Edited on Wed Aug-10-05 02:03 PM by AndyTiedye
That electric motor can produce power faster than any gas engine.

The latest hybrids have somewhat unimpressive mileage figures,
unless you compare them with the high-performance cars that
their target market ordinarily buys.

It makes sense to go after the cars that guzzle the most gas first.

I traded a RAV4 for a Ford Escape Hybrid. That got me a bigger SUV
and better mileage. Probably won't need the trailer anymore.

I'll keep my Civic Del Sol until it falls apart or somebody builds
a hybrid version of it, or perhaps a convertable version of the Insight.
My Civic Del Sol still gets almost 40 mpg.


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