Most spent fuel not damaged at No. 4 reactor

[FBaggins]

TEPCO says most of the spent fuel in the storage pool of the No. 4 reactor is apparently undamaged.

At a news conference on Wednesday, the firm said the finding is based on interim results of an analysis of samples taken from the pool water on Tuesday.

But it said levels of radioactive substances including iodine-131 in the samples were higher than those in storage pools under normal circumstances, suggesting that some of the spent fuel may have been damaged.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/13_37.html

And in what is virtually guranteed to instantaneously sprout a new round of "See! There's real fission going on in there!"... we get:

TEPCO says it found 220 becquerels of iodine-131 per cubic centimeter of water, as well as 88 becquerels of cesium-134 and 93 becquerels of cesium-137. The firm says the materials are usually produced by nuclear fission.

[madokie]

1. "Most" being the operative word there

I'd be a little bit more inclined to believe that if it was coming from someone else besides these fella's

[FBaggins]

2. "Some" being damaged was almost a guarantee.

Certainly in #4... and even if it weren't damaged by heat (no sure thing), it would have been damaged the old fashion way (by things falling on it).

[flamingdem]

3. That's classic! Seeing the rods as half full is the optimists (or spin doctors) way nt

[FBaggins]

6. It isn't an issue of positive or negative spin on the same set of facts

what it does is refute the notion that the pool was dry for days and much of the fuel was burning.

[GliderGuider]

4. "Most" water stayed in the Pacific Ocean during the tsunami, too.

"Most" of the snow stays on the mountain during an avalanche.
"Most" of the earth doesn't shift during an earthquake.
"Most" of the ship stays intact when it runs into an iceberg.

It's the few percent of whatever-it-is that doesn't obey the rules that gets ya...

[Fledermaus]

5. What happened at unit 3?

[FBaggins]

7. #4 was the one they were most worried about.

I'm not aware that they've done a similar analysis of the pool at #3. Have you seen something?

[Fledermaus]

8. They were all full of years worth of spent fuel. All of them.

[FBaggins]

12. So? Not all fuel is the same...And not all of the pools were identically damaged.

#4's pool is simultaneously the most damaged AND contains the most active fuel.

[kristopher]

13. I've heard no evidence to support that claim.

From what I know #3 was the most damaged when the crane fell into it, and #2's status isn't clear.

[FBaggins]

14. Then you haven't been paying attention.

The "freshest" fuel in #3 would be only about 1/4th of a core's worth and would be (give or take) a year old. #4 had the entire core moved to the pool just a few months ago. There is no question that the fuel there is much more active.

From what I know #3 was the most damaged

I'm talking abou the pool itself. It is visually the most damaged and appears to warm up the fastest and be the hardest to keep filled. ("filled" now being a relative term).

[kristopher]

17. I'm talking about the #3 spent fuel pool aslo.

The earthquake caused the crane to fall into it, which crushed the fuel rods.

[FBaggins]

20. Crushed the fuel rods?

Hasn't arnie showed you the tops of the fuel storage rack?

[kristopher]

21. The second detailed images they recieved showed the crane had fallen into the pool

They stated it had crushed and damaged the fuel rods; which is why the pool went dry far faster than they had expected.

If you have other information I'd like to know about it.

[FBaggins]

22. Who is "they"?

Link?

which is why the pool went dry far faster than they had expected

Crushed fuel rods produce far more heat than whole ones?

[kristopher]

23. Rods with crushed housings do.

NHK news on my tv thus no link. If you want to reject it that is up to you. You aren't shy about being wrong, after all.

[FBaggins]

25. Rods with crushed housings put out far more heat?

Through what physical mechanism?

Virtually all of the heat in there is from nuclear decay. Nuclear decay is not impacted at all by whether the substance is in nice pretty tubes or in a pile on the ground. It's a constant.

[kristopher]

26. ROFLMAO

Bookmarked and copied for future reference.

[FBaggins]

27. I take it your response means "I don't know... but it HAS to be more"

Right?

Care to try again?

What physical mechanism causes "crushed" fuel rods to change the half-life of the material inside?

[FBaggins]

28. Crickets?

What a surprise. :sarcasm:

[Fledermaus]

9. Can you tell me what item 1 is in this image?

And why is there steam coming out?

[FBaggins]

15. I don't see steam coming out of item 1.

I'm not sure whether that's pointing at a large pipe of some bars/rods, but I don't know if we can tell what they are.

Steam would be a sign that either water is boiling in some spot, or the water is at least quite warm on a cold day.

Why?

[Turbineguy]

18. Is somebody making the case

that these are fuel rods?

[FBaggins]

19. Some have.

I don't know if that's where Fledermaus was going. The image isn't very well labeled (not that it would be easy to do so with that mess).

[Fledermaus]

10. Can you tell me why there is steam coming from this location of unit 3?

[FBaggins]

16. Again... presumably water is boiling.

The collage of images by no means makes clear what "this location" is, so I couldn't guess.

[jpak]

30. It's obviously Tea Time and they are brewing up a bunch for the Fukushima 50

see

Happy Talk!

[SpoonFed]

11. Yes, exactly.

I'm getting a little bored with TEPCO and Baggins version of a 10-year-old amateur magician's attempt at redirection. They lost credibility ages weeks ago if they had any to start with.

Take everything they say and multiply it by 100. That's worked since day one at having a realistic view of where this is going for the next unforeseeable future.

[truebrit71]

24. So if the trend is correct in 24-48 hours they will change 'most' to 'some'...

...followed by another change 2-3 days later to 'we're not sure exactly how much is undamaged'...

I wouldn't believe these guys if they told me water was wet...

[jschurchin]

29. Hey brother, did you work for MetEd in '79?nt

[FBaggins]

31. Nope.

I was half way around the world at the time.