Latest thermal imaging and Fukushima reactor temperatures from units 1-4

[flamingdem]

http://falloutphilippines.blogspot.com/2011/04/latest-thermal-imaging-and-reactor.html

Nominal readings as of late, and check out reactor #1

NOTE: There is a .pdf on this site to see enlargements

[FBaggins]

1. Looks like thousands of degrees to me.

:)

We've discovered Cold Fission! :party: :applause:

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

2. does the nuclear industry pay you extra to be a jackass?

[FBaggins]

3. Nope. Provided gratis for those like you who deserve it.

:)

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

4. wow. are all wannabe Nuclear Engineers this self-satified and arrogant?

No wonder your industry keeps fucking up so badly.

You guys don't know how to admit error.

[FBaggins]

5. Haven't read any of your own posts lately?

Shocking double standard you've got there.

At least I keep a civil tongue.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

6. How many times do you have to be disproven before you admit fallibility?

Pardon me for being uncivil with someone who has downplayed every single angle regarding Fukushima because they have a vested interest in the industry.
Can you say bought and sold, Frodo?

[FBaggins]

7. You might try ONCE before claiming that.

You've claimed it a number of times... yet always failed to back it up with facts.

What a shock.

So let's look at a few of those errors.

I claimed that pool #4 was dry
I bought the "thousands of degrees" nonsense (which is why this thread has my dander up)
I claimed they couldn't release steam and thus would be unable to contain the pressure.
I thought those three guys who exposed their feet had received killing doses.
I believed all the nonsense about active sustained fission going on in one or more cores (or a pool).

Oh wait... none of that was me... was it?

And you've been insufferably uncivil from day one. You have no business expected anything more from others.

[SpoonFed]

9. Weak

You say Djedi claimed some things and they are wrong:

> claimed that pool #4 was dry

We don't know. No one has sufficiently explained the uranium hitting the rest of the world just yet. Perhaps it ws dry and/or on fire. I certainly don't think they spent so much energy with helicopters and firefighters because it was full.

> bought the "thousands of degrees" nonsense (which is why this thread has my dander up)

We don't know. TEPCO sure as heck has not been forthcoming with data and what it has, it has repeatedly withdrawn and "corrected" due to all manner of reasons like bad translations, the equipment that had high readings were faulty, or simply saying "maybe" to everything.

So while I'm no world weary boiling water nuclear reactor engineer, at this point, I'm not sure anyone fully knows the state of the reactors and the pool do any degree of accuracy for the entire duration of this hellish nightmare.

> claimed they couldn't release steam and thus would be unable to contain the pressure.

We don't know. There were some claims if I recall correctly or at least speculation to that effect. Probably a result of the lack of fixed power or the draining dead of the batteries, and there was a battery fire too, IIRC.

> I thought those three guys who exposed their feet had received killing doses.

We don't know if they will die of some nuclear filth caused cancer later in life. If you take the media reports and TEPCO at face value, they received burns that required immediate medical attention but were not immediately life threatening when treated.

> I believed all the nonsense about active sustained fission going on in one or more cores (or a pool).

We don't know. It's been stated in various places by various experts that on one side it's completely impossible to the other side that it is happening as I write this, so you pardon me if I say that we don't all take your analysis at face value and believe it to be 100% correct since you have done nothing but downplay the severity of this radiological disaster from the beginning. You've even moved into complete nonsense territory now that things skated past TMI and probably well past Chornobyl at this point.

I read an interesting analysis in which the idea was that the more sea water they put on it (without neutron killing additives) the more they facilitated localized recriticality due to the moderating effect that water would have on unknown fuel geometry inside the destroyed reactor core. But hey, nobody's got a good look inside there, and that includes you.

> And you've been insufferably uncivil from day one.

And you? You see, some of us can actually see through the times when you are trying to keep a thinly veiled facade of civility and are not just the full-on all seeing and all knowing Teh Internets Nucular Expert Frodo Baggins Esquire (aka just being an arrogant know-it-all on a soap box)

Now... let me take a guess at why (despite you asking for one) the rest of us, who could compile an amusing list of your mistakes and awesome downplaying of the seriousness and consequences of this debacle since the very start, have not jumped at the opportunity to do so.

It centers around the fact that any newcomer can see the nonsense in your posting in whatever latest thread you have "contributed to" and probably doesn't need a sickening guided tour. Secondly, we've got better things to do than sieve the posts of the last month pulling out the gems of your contributions in much the same way that I don't want to go to the dog park and poke around the trash cans looking for a half-eaten sandwich. We're just not that hungry for it.

[FBaggins]

10. Lol!

So your defense is "we don't know"?

I suppose moving you from arrogance to ignorance would be a big step in the right direction... but no, we pretty much know they were wrong.

No one has sufficiently explained the uranium hitting the rest of the world just yet.

There isn't anything to "explain". The levels reported are perfectly consistent with the events we know have occurred. We don't need to invent some mystery incident somehow hidden from the reporting.

I certainly don't think they spent so much energy with helicopters and firefighters because it was full.

Dishonest spin. Nobody ever claimed that it was full. You can't defend a claim that it was dry by saying "anything less than full means I was right".

We don't know if they will die of some nuclear filth caused cancer later in life. If you take the media reports and TEPCO at face value, they received burns that required immediate medical attention but were not immediately life threatening when treated.

We don't have to know what will happen to know that the predictions at the time were wrong. The error wasn't in the inability to tell the future... it was in the misunderstanding of what the risks of radiation are. A given amount of activity was reported and some people thought they could just look the number up in a table and say "people exposed to that amount get radiation poisoning and most die". It showed a deep misunderstanding of the different between activity, exposure, and dose.

We don't know. It's been stated in various places by various experts that on one side it's completely impossible to the other side that it is happening as I write this

Right. Except that those one only one side actually are experts. The ones on the other side have been claiming active sustained fission for weeks now and inexplicably/miraculously nothing is happening. You can't say "we don't know" because we DO know. You just don't want to believe it.

Re-criticality is theoretically possible, but you couldn't possibly miss it. They have no ability to cool that much heat... and sitting on your couch with a spray bottle isn't going to hide it.

pardon me if I say that we don't all take your analysis at face value and believe it to be 100% correct since you have done nothing but downplay the severity of this radiological disaster from the beginning.

That was... and remains... entirely untrue. There have been plenty of times where my analysis was that things were worse than what was then understood. I highlighted the broken torus as the even that would cause the greatest releases of radioactive material and highlighted how it would happen... all this many days before it was commonly understood here or reported elsewhere.

What I HAVE done is correct people (like yourself) who seen to have an interest in what's going on but often don't understand the physics. Some people can't stand being corrected and would rather believe that there's a roughly equal chance (i.e. "we don't know") that they're right.

You aren't.

I love how you hint that you could provide a long list of those errors... and take up so much time with this long post... but can't be bothered to do more than continue to claim that it's there. When all you've been asked for is one.

The only one I can think of it that in correcting one poster's dozen-or-so errors, I incorrectly said that nuclear decay was not a category of nuclear reaction. That's how I remember learning it, but that was decades ago and I was wrong.

Feel free to find (not invent) any others and I'll own 'em.

[SpoonFed]

11. blah blah blah mr fbags

I simply made some reasonable points to the effect that everything isn't as clear cut and understood as you pretend they are (or you believe they are in your own mind.)

You didn't like this. You turned from your petty attack on Djedi to your petty attack on me. You're sure breathing hard for somebody so knowledgeable and confident throughout this radiological filth spewfest.

Go back to bed, it's Saturday after all and you don't have to win all arguments on teh internets every day.

[CoffeeCat]

8. and isn't it sad that there is a media blackout...

...on this entire story--and we are force to make guesses about what is happening inside
that plant--with thermal imaging.

We all know that they're lying.

It's going to take a while for it all to shake out. Pretty soon, they'll come crawling on their
knees to us--because the situation will be so catastrophic (and the consequences for the people
of this planet) that they'll have no choice but to spill the truth.

If radiation was oil--we would be able to see their lies. Unfortunately, for us--we sit in the dark
for now.