Nuclear Fuel Volatalized at Fukushima, Explosion at #3 analyzed: Arnie Gundersen (xpost)

[flamingdem]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x577747


Arnie explains.. was it a prompt criticality in the No. 3 fuel pool, does the US government have the isotope data needed to know the truth?

[AtheistCrusader]

1. I want to see the isotope data as well.

There have already been indications of short-lived isotopes at the site, which would tend to support Arnie's conclusion.

Where I disagree is the explosion itself. The orange flash. Normally, a prompt criticality excursion is accompanied by a flash of blue light. (Not cherenkov radiation) The explosion is clearly orange in the video. Arnie comments on this as well.

That doesn't exactly rule it out though. The explosion could have been partially fueled with hydrogen, or possibly the camera's CCD didn't properly interpret the wavelength of the light emitted by the explosion.


I would say 'possible' and worth investigating.
Not sure why we haven't heard the results of the air monitoring after the explosion. The fact they haven't released it does tend to suggest the worst.

[flamingdem]

2. Yes, it could be the camera

among other things.

Perhaps there is a way to do a Freedom of Information Act request to get that info.

...dream on

Looks like the US is protecting Japan. But why would they do that exactly. I hope
the justification is not to prevent panic, I don't buy it, I think it's economic
protection and not wanting to get involved, to "bust" Japan when it's under so many
stresses. But remember the 80 Kilometer exclusion insisted upon by the US forces
and the subsequent evacuation... they knew something

[AtheistCrusader]

3. Yes, and Japan could roast us economically.

If we started publicly slamming their response, and called out a coverup (if there is one) they could easily start liquidating our debt, and destroy our bond markets among other things.

So we technically have each other over a barrel. Now, is that the case? I don't know. but it is a possibility.

[GliderGuider]

12. I expect them to liquidate much of their foreign debt holdings to fund their reconstruction

This will combine with supply chain breakdowns, and will be one of the ways Fukushima touches us all. I expect the global economic impact to be the most damaging fallout. The American economy is at enormous risk due to this event.

[flamingdem]

14. I agree, this will impact the global economy

but reconstruction might heat it back up a little

[defendandprotect]

5. Clearly, because Obama is pushing nuclear reactors for US -- a new generation of them!!

[defendandprotect]

4. kr

[CJvR]

6. Strange conclutions.

I have not heard anything about fuel rods scattering about the landscape, that would get far worse radiation readings than what have been comming in so far. As for criticality in the fuel rods, just how would that happen? You expose a pool to a massive shockwave and you are likely to crack the bottom or walls, not compress stuff in the water unless they are hollow. Why was the blast in reactor 3 so much more ferocious? Well the blast occured later and reactor 3 is larger than reator 1.

[SpoonFed]

7. Seat of the pants, forum, engineering conclusions...

I have not heard anything about fuel rods scattering about the landscape

You need to look at some of the high-res imagery that came out weeks ago.

that would get far worse radiation readings than what have been comming in so far.

Maybe look at the overwhelming and growing body of evidence they are just covering up at every stage.

Well the blast occured later and reactor 3 is larger than reator 1

Why didn't #2 explode like #3 since they are the same model and size? Oh wait, #3 is MOX right?

[AtheistCrusader]

10. #1 had older fuel rods, so it had a high ratio of plutonium to uranium as well.

I don't see a mechanism there that would cause a significant difference in explosion type.


I thought Japan was being forthright about the fact they are bulldozing dirt over the scattered fuel components? Or is that what you meant by covering up, and I just misunderstood you?

[bananas]

8. NY Times: ""Broken pieces of fuel rods have been found outside...now being covered with bulldozers"

"Broken pieces of fuel rods have been found outside of Reactor No. 2, and are now being covered with bulldozers"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/world/asia/08japan.html

[CJvR]

16. But then...

...the radiation values would be much much higher. IIRC the hotest hot spot found so far is 900 mSv / h.

If it was fuel rods they found the you would meassure whole Sieverts instead.

Chernobyl rad levels / h from Wiki ( location, Röntgen, Sv )

Vicinity of the reactor core 30,000 300
Fuel fragments 15,000–20,000 150-200
Debris heap at the place of circulation pumps 10,000 100
Debris near the electrolyzers 5,000–15,000 50-150
Water in the Level +25 feedwater room 5,000 50
Level 0 of the turbine hall 500–15,000 5-150
Area of the affected unit 1,000–1,500 10-15
Water in Room 712 1,000 10
Control room, shortly after explosion 3–5 .03-.05
Gidroelektromontazh depot 30 .3
Nearby concrete mixing unit 10–15 .10-.15

[bananas]

9. NY Times: 'fuel from spent fuel pools above the reactors were blown “up to one mile from the units,”

Another NY Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/asia/06nuclear.html

The document also suggests that fragments or particles of nuclear fuel from spent fuel pools above the reactors were blown “up to one mile from the units,” and that pieces of highly radioactive material fell between two units and had to be “bulldozed over,”

[MercuryRepeater]

11. maybe you should pay more attention

TEPCO released a map the other day that pinpoints chunks of radioactive debris.

[bananas]

15. "I've kept my head in the sand and I didn't hear anything about this!"

[Fledermaus]

13. It was much more energetic explosion.