Germany Must Find 10 Gigawatts of Capacity, Handelsblatt Says

[phantom power]

Germany will have to generate as much as 10 gigawatts of energy capacity from alternative sources to make up the shortfall from its accelerated exit from nuclear power by 2022, Handelsblatt newspaper reported, citing draft legislation.

The figure comes from a 39-point energy concept that Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Cabinet plans to approve today, the newspaper said. The shortfall will be made up by gas-fired power plants, energy from biological sources such as biofuels as well as wind and solar power.

Merkel’s coalition is considering compensating industrial energy users with 1.2 billion euros ($1.8 billion) a year from 2013 to help make up for higher energy costs, Handelsblatt said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-06/germany-must-find-10-gigawatts-of-capacity-handelsblatt-says.html

[FBaggins]

1. More polution... more CO2... and a multi-billion euro hit?

Haven't these silly Germans listened to the economist who already put such specious concerns in their place?

:sarcasm:

[FBaggins]

2. Missing from the Bloomberg piece-but covered elsewhere-is the construction of more coal plants

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110606/wl_afp/germanypoliticsnuclearenergy

"The bill focuses on ways to fill the gap left by nuclear power, on which Germany relies for some 22 percent of its energy needs. This includes building new coal and gas power plants..."

[phantom power]

3. awesome, it's even worse than I thought.

More coal. :woohoo:

[kristopher]

7. Merkels government wanted to extend nuclear and build more coal ccs.

The coal was in the works before Fukushima and it is brought to you by the same energy rightist policies that cancelled the nuclear phase out from 2001 over massive protests.

[FBaggins]

9. Got any before/after stats?

Can you show that the amount of coal/gas planned for the coming years is no higher than in earlier plan?

Should be simple enough. That would mean that they intend to entirely replace the 7-8 reactors that have been shuttered several years early entirely with clean energy sources.

Don't worry. I won't hold my breath.

brought to you by the same energy rightist

Must feel positively schizo for you to not know when to attack and when to defend them, eh? Do you flip a coin?

[kristopher]

11. Do you have any evidence that coal is part of the phase-out plan?

The only plan I've seen that includes coal is the one the rightist Merkel government put together in early April. They had just finished pissing everyone off by scrapping the plan to phase out nuclear, but that didn't stop them from pushing the the coalccs policy; which was was nearly as contentious. That is because the right loves both nuclear and coal.

Since the CCS Act was for demonstration and testing I'd be interested in seeing the text of the nuclear phase-out plant where it says coal is part of the picture. As far as I've seen, new build is limited to renewables and natural gas.

[FBaggins]

12. Only the reporting I linked to.

Is there some reason to believe that it's false?

I haven't seen the actual plan (don't even know if it's in english yet). There is some variability in the reporting as well (the amount set aside to compensate those who lose out financially seems quite different depending on the reporting for instance).

All of it, however, rebuts nicely what you thought the german economist had demonstrated. Those who were concerned that there would be an economic and environmental impact clearly had the right of it. The claim that this is really no different than what was originally planned prior to last year was untrue.

[kristopher]

13. The OP doesn't mention it, and the CCS act is only calling for demonstration projects.

If someone made a negative claim about nuclear based on such hearsay you'd have a hissyfit. I have no reason to believe your claim is anything more than the standard nuclear lobby misinformation.

[FBaggins]

14. Your assuming that these are CCS plants.

All I see is that they have a multi-year 10GW hole to fill. Renewables may be quick to install when you're talking about one or one hundred units... but you don't get 10 GW (especially after adjusting for CF) in a couple years.

I can tell you that euro coal prices jumped on the news. Obviously someone expects a greater demand than they anticipated before the news came out (though there's some overlapping supply issue as well so the impact is hard to judge).

If someone made a negative claim about nuclear based on such hearsay

This was the AP clearly saying that additional coal generation was part of how they would close the gap... a gap that didn't exist when the demonstration projects you're talking about were planned. "I don't believe it" doesn't make that hearsay.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Well, start by running a cable from the clock tower to the street,

where the pole on the back of the Delorean will contact it, sending the power directly to the flux capacitor...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Interesting considering these statements

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/222454/business/renewable-energy-to-lower-costs-boost-economy-german-official

from this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x297506

[FBaggins]

6. Not really. Both positions are likely correct.

The focus on renewables might lower energy costs years down the road but cost more today. Maybe not lower than the sunk-cost-advantaged plan of keeping existing reactors through retirement... but certainly over some other paths.

There's a gap of some few years where some plants that they were previously counting on need to be replaced with generation from more expensive, but temporary, sources.

[Yo_Mama]

8. The grid updates have to be accelerated

And those are somewhat expensive.

But it really doesn't seem so much a change of plan as of a change of schedule.

[FBaggins]

10. I agree.

But that "change of schedule" really equates to a multi-year hole that represents the gap between the pre-2010 plan and the current plan. A hole that consists of 7-8 reactors producing incredibly cheap power on the one hand... and dirty/expensive stopgap measures on the other.