From The "Just In Time" Folder - Daimler, GM Will Jointly Develop Hybrids

[hatrack]

And of course, they're developing hybrid versions of the Yukon, Durango and Tahoe - :wtf:

DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG confirmed Thursday they will jointly develop fuel-saving hybrid engines in hopes of cashing in on an expanding market now dominated by Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co.

Under the agreement announced in December and formalized Monday, GM will be the lead designer of hybrid engines for full-size trucks and sport-utility vehicles, and front-wheel-drive cars and crossover vehicles. DaimlerChrysler will be the lead designer of hybrid engines for rear-wheel-drive luxury cars.

The Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon will be the first GM vehicles powered by the newly developed hybrids, Tom Stephens, GM's group vice president for powertrains, said. DaimlerChrysler will debut with a hybrid-powered Dodge Durango SUV, he said.

The Tahoe and Yukon hybrids are scheduled to be introduced in 2007, when Toyota has said it hopes sales of its hybrid models will total several hundred thousand worldwide.

EDIT

http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5579849.html

[pauldavid]

1. Too little, too late

[phantom power]

2. "We are now playing that most American of games... catch-up!"

(that dude played by Sean Connery in "Rising Sun")

[thereismore]

3. developing? the hybrids are here, so grow up, a-holes. nt

[Catbird]

4. Missing the point

Wow! More efficient SUVs. I can hardly wait. I suppose there's nothing wrong with this, but what we need is more fuel efficient cars and fewer SUVs. Actually, what we need is better mass transit, but maybe that's too much to hope for at this time.

[phantom power]

5. Use of busses is on the rise.

At least it is in phoenix. I would assume the same for other urban environments.

Busses are probably an excellent near-term solution. They can be deployed rapidly, without the requirement of giant municiple engineering projects like building light-rail.

[LTR]

17. GM has a different plan

They want to utilize hybrid technology in mid-size and larger cars and trucks, as opposed to making hybrids out of Aveos. Hell, they had the Metro back in the '90's. Remember that one? It got up into the 50's for fuel economy.

Hybrid technology is great, but much of it is smoke and mirrors. The Prius has a pretty small motor in it and it is a fairly small vehicle. Without the hybrid stuff, it would get up into at least the 40's anyway, especially when you remove those heavy battery packs. The Prius, underneath it all, is a science experiment version of a Geo Metro with a $23K price tag. Look at the new Accord and Civic hybrids. They gain roughly 10 MPG over their straight fuel counterparts.

Most people here shit all over the big three, especially GM. Remember, they did take a chance with electric technology back in the '90's. And the big three are also heavy proponents of flex-fuel capabilities (Ethanol-85 compatible, meaning that these vehicles can run on a fuel which is much cleaner burning than regular gasoline). Flex-fuel vehicles are more widely available and cheaper than hybrid technology. There are already millions of vehicles on the road that can accept fuel containing up to 85% ethanol (aka E85).

Oh, and did you know that GM makes a lot of cars, from small to large, that get pretty decent fuel economy? For instance, both the Malibu and Impala from Chevy can reach over 30 MPG on the highway. And the Corvette with that big 6.0 V8 can easily hit the mid-upper 20's on the highway.

And I don't blame GM, Ford, or DaimlerChrysler for making large numbers of trucks. These are some pretty broad lines, and they wouldn't make them if people weren't buying them.

[NickB79]

6. But I thought GM and DC said hydrogen was the fuel of the future?

Maybe they finally realized the error of their ways. But still, as others have said, too little too late, and the wrong damn models.

[hatrack]

7. Yeah, I mean seriously!

A Durango that gets 15 MPG instead of 13 and costs $3,000 more than its standard counterpart? Day late, dollar short, folks.

[phantom power]

9. Good god, THAT's their answer to Toyota?

Somebody put them out of their misery. It's too pathetic to behold.

[LTR]

19. There are two types of hybrids

One is the type that we are all familiar with. The kind like the Honda Insight or Toyota Prius that is built with fuel economy in mind. Expect to see fuel economy increase about 10 MPG.

The other type is a hybrid setup that is designed more to increase performance or to use for other purposes. GM obviously doesn't boast about the 10% fuel increase in Silverado hybrids. But it isn't really designed for that. It's more for electrical functionality, and to provide an electrical source for commercial applications (construction crews, for example). This is not designed to be a pickup that gets 50 MPG plus.

Keep in mind, this modern hybrid technology is still in it's infancy. Alternative fuel is still in it's infancy. Nothing is going to happen overnight.

I know GM's strategy is not to come out with a Prius/Insight fighter, but rather to adapt everyday vehicles that everyone drives to hybrid (expect to see a Chevy Malibu hybrid in the next year or two). Personally, I think they should just bit the bullet, put out a glorified golf cart like the Prius that gets a ton of hype, and get everyone off their backs.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Fuel cells?

I made my first battery for a Boy Scout merit badge 50 years ago, and another one a few months later in my "Vo-Tech" electric shop class, and I made my first fuel cell as an extra credit project in Phys Chem Lab II just over 40 years ago -- and I did a due diligence technology study of a fuel cell based co-gen/distributed gen stock offering.

There is no way they are going to get a viable, cost effective, personally owned vehicle, mobile, fuel cell system within twenty years.

My Gosh - the fuel cells just moved from graphite to platinized platinum black and BET surface areas - give them time to intellectually absorb work functions and band gaps, and valence bands, and conduction bands.

[skids]

8. Silver lining...

The silver lining is in the hacks.

A pickup can carry a buttload of extra batteries, at least :-)

[dcfirefighter]

10. Why can't they just bring their European diesels over here? n/t

[skids]

11. Sulfur, that's why.

U.S. deisel is dirty by comparison. That'll change in a few years as new standards come into effect. Betcha we hear about a Toyota deisel hybrid being test-marketed within the next year. Once they can make a PZEV deisel without sinking tons of money into the emissions system, they will.

[Strelnikov_]

14. Take The VW 61HP TDI Engine Used In The Lupo

which is designed for frequent on/off cycling, couple it with the Toyota Prius hybrid technology (CVT, etc.), all in a Jetta/Focus/Prius form factor, and you would have a 80 mpg (h) car that would sell itself. Add 20 mi. PHEV electric only range, a 120+ mpge car.

Any passenger vehicle on the drawing board today that will not attain 60 mpg (h) or better may as well be scrapped.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. But as a result of their lawsuits in the early 1990's

(to protect their GM EV1 "monopoly", keep the RAV 4 EV and Insite and Prius off of the market) GM has the right to clone Prius technology "marketed in the US" between certain dates -- kind of like the Matrix-Vibe and Prizm-Corolla situation.

They already showed a flavor of the Precept with a diesel hybrid plant.

Being a cynical ex-Detroiter - I think this is a charade to get their junk bond rating upgraded to investment grade.

[gulfcoastliberal]

15. Totally ridiculous

I own an Olds Alero V6 and plan to get either a Prius or a Corolla. I used to have a '91 Corolla and it was a great car. Now they're even more luxurious with the same or better gas mileage. The Alero gets around 22mpg around town (I drive slow&gentle) and around 28-29 MPG freeway. The annoying thing is it "only" has 14 gallon tank so the range sucks. An 18 gallon tank would've been better, but when I drive 150 miles to grandma's house on I-10 I still have well over 1/2 a tank.

I'm looking forward to getting either a Corolla LE or S model. The thing that makes me pause on the Prius is what kind of warranty is on the battery pack.

[Coastie for Truth]

16. Warranty on Prius

"The thing that makes me pause on the Prius is what kind of warranty is on the battery pack."

150,000 miles - even if the DETROIT News or Detroit Free Press or the salesman at Conyers Ford in Dearbon, MI says differently.

[Massacure]

18. And every other hybrid part has a 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty.