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NBC mentions "global warming" in connection with Katrina.

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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 06:28 PM
Original message
NBC mentions "global warming" in connection with Katrina.
Our cowed media has bought completely into the manufactured "scientific" doubt about global climate change.

I seldom watch network news any more, nor do I take much of the MSM seriously, because everything is spin, spin, and then spin.

I was therefore surprised when the NBC anchor - I forget his name, Brokaw's replacement - mentioned after a "scientific report" on the causes of Katrina (all of two minutes) that did emphasize the record heat in the Gulf may persist according to "some" scientists, because of global climate change.

It is as obvious as the nose on one's face what is happening, and now apparently it's even sunken in at the propaganda bureaus, though probably (though I wouldn't actually know for myself) at Fox News.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. They must of made a mistake!
Bush doesn't think so, he has the proof! :sarcasm:


:sarcasm::sarcasm:
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kansasblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Florida and the gulf state can only be lied to 20 more times...
and when everything is destroyed they'll stand up and say!

" now..what about this global warming thing?"

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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Do you think you're possibly being overly optimistic.
I'm sure that they've been lied to hundreds of times already without even batting an eyelash.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. higher ocean temperatures = larger & more frequent hurricanes
What part of this is difficult to understand?
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. This part...
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

No strong correlation between hurricane frequency/intensity and global warming in the past century is apparent. Solar cycle effects seem to have a stronger signal.

http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jelsner/PDF/Research/ElsnerKaraOwens1999.pdf

The major factor is the North Atlantic Oscillation. There are also other long-period oscillations that influence hurricane development.

http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/news/Bossakarticle.pdf
http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/archives/109/testimony/2005/terrencejoyce.pdf

People who want to make Katrina a poster child for global warming don't know the science very well. I, for one, choose to leave politics and ideology out of science.
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Evidence of correlation between global warming and TC intensity
Emanuel, K. A., 2005: Increasing destructiveness of tropical cyclones over the past 30 years. Nature, 486, 686-688. (PDF)

ftp://texmex.mit.edu/pub/emanuel/PAPERS/NATURE03906.pdf

Knutson, T. R. & Tuleya, R. E. Impact of CO2-induced warming on simulated hurricane intensity and precipitation: Sensitivity to the choice of climate model and convective parameterization. J. Clim. 17, 3477–-3495 (2004).


But you are correct there is no evidence of correlation between global warming and frequency.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The intensity of the storms are the highest recorded.
Thank you for your paper.

The graph on the page 687 looks rather like lots of other graphs we see these days including mean temperatures of various types.

If one ignores the sinosodial element owing to the regular fluxuation, the graph empirically seems to look like a graph of carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere.

May I quote from the paper?

"Figure 1 shows the PDI for the North Atlantic and the September mean tropical sea surface temperature (SST) averaged over one of the prime genesis regions in the North Atlantic20. There is an obvious strong relationship between the two time series (r 2 ¼ 0.65), suggesting that tropical SST exerts a strong control on the power dissipation index. The Atlantic multi-decadal mode discussed in ref. 10 is evident in the SSTseries, as well as shorter period oscillations possibly related to the El Nin˜o/Southern Oscillation and the North Atlantic Oscillation. But the large upswing in the last decade is unprecedented, and probably reflects the effect of global warming. We will return to this subject below. Figure 2 shows the annually accumulated, smoothed PDI..."

One of the dodges of global climate change deniers is to point to the fact that there are periodic fluctuations in various climatic features, including droughts, floods, hurricanes, glacial melting, and so on. They then jump to the conclusion that asserting the existence of such fluctuations represents a cause for eliminating anthropogenic climate change from each event cited as evidence for the effect. Another is to attempt to represent scientific uncertainty as the negation of scientific results.

It is not possible to prove, of course, that no hurricane like Katrina could have existed without global climate change. Clearly hurricanes of this type have existed in the past. However it is also clear a priori that the intensity of the extreme climatic of all types as measured are all near record intensity as predicted many years ago.

The World Meterological Organization issued an unprecedented warning on exactly this subject a few years ago.

Just one Publication on the subject (2003) from this organization has a blurb, specifically mentioning tropical cyclones, reading as follows:

" 952 Our future climate
2003; 36 PP. E-F-R-S
ISBN: 92-63-10952-4 PRICE: CHF 15.-

Issued for World Meteorological Day 2003, this brochure explains, in terms accessible to the general public, the climate system and the climate change processes, as well as model projections of our future climate with its far-reaching consequences to society. WMO's expertise and networks of NMHSs place it in a foremost position to monitor and project the future state of our climate. The brochure also explains why the unprecedented weather- and climate-related extreme events, such as floods, droughts and tropical cyclones in various parts of the world, are glimpses of what could be awaiting future generations if human-induced change to our climate is not brought under control..."

http://www.wmo.ch/web/etr/pdf_web/WMOCatalog05.pdf

The World Meteorological Organization is the international scientific (as in not Repuke controlled) organization of the United Nations.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Global Warming Is Expected to Raise Hurricane Intensity (NYT 9/30/04)
September 30, 2004
Global Warming Is Expected to Raise Hurricane Intensity
By ANDREW C. REVKIN

Global warming is likely to produce a significant increase in the intensity and rainfall of hurricanes in coming decades, according to the most comprehensive computer analysis done so far.

By the 2080's, seas warmed by rising atmospheric concentrations of heat-trapping greenhouse gases could cause a typical hurricane to intensify about an extra half step on the five-step scale of destructive power, says the study, done on supercomputers at the Commerce Department's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton, N.J. And rainfall up to 60 miles from the core would be nearly 20 percent more intense.

Other computer modeling efforts have also predicted that hurricanes will grow stronger and wetter as a result of global warming. But this study is particularly significant, independent experts said, because it used half a dozen computer simulations of global climate, devised by separate groups at institutions around the world. The long-term trends it identifies are independent of the normal lulls and surges in hurricane activity that have been on display in recent decades.

The study was published online on Tuesday by The Journal of Climate and can be found at www.gfdl.noaa.gov/reference/bibliography/2004/tk0401.pdf.

http://www.treepower.org/news/nytglobalwarming-hurricanes.html
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flashsmith Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's all bushes fault
My mom lives on the Gulf coast of Florida. She voted Republican because she thought Kerry had a fat head. I'm not sure why Bushes pin head was preferable to Kerry's fat head, but that was her reason and she's sticking to it. Ever since, when I call her on the weekend, I've been blaming all the world's woes on Bush, including the weather since he didn't sign the Kyoto treaty. I'm so cynical of Bush, I almost believes he wants the hurricanes to happen to help brother Jeb keep his state's construction industry alive. The processes that have brought about the current weather cycle probably started long before Bush took office, but somehow it makes me feel better to blame the whole thing on him.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. tell your mom john voted for bush too
also, the bible says the world is ours to take care of, but we're destroying it out of greed and pure ignorance..and hell is being buried alive.
welcome to DU flash
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Done Donating Member (680 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. The waters in the gulf were 89 to 90 degrees
Is that normal? Is the gulf heating up, and if so is it linked to global warming?
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. No, it's not normal.
For my money, it's clearly a consequence of global warming. But I guess I can't prove it.
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