Energy efficient electric baseboard heaters?

[iconoclastNYC]

Does anyone know any resources for highly efficient electric baseboard heaters?

I'm trying to figure out a way to convert my six-family apartment building to solar heat and I wondering if maybe using electric baseboard heat might be a way to go. Since the electricity will be free once the installation loan is paid off I think it might be a somethign to consider. Any thoughts?

[Ezlivin]

1. If you're thinking solar, try to keep your efficiency high

Using PV cells to generate electricity to drive baseboard heaters would be very inefficient.

You can accomplish quite a bit with passive solar (if you are blessed with a good location).

Another option would be geothermal heating using a geothermal heat pump. These have been proven to be very efficient.

[iconoclastNYC]

3. All I have is a roof......

Passive solar is not going to work. I'm in a six family apartment building. Only thing I can do is add stuff to the roof. I have great sun on the roof. I'm one of the tallets buildings around here.

As for efficiency....I'm thinking of using a concentrating sun tracking system.... SunCubes from Green and Gold electricity out of Australia. They estimate 10 cents per kilowatt hour for my area based on a 20 year loan and the sun availability for my area.

Right now the building uses a hot water boiler burning about 3,000 gallons of No. 2 fuel oil a year.... that's $7500

I need to figure out a way to estimate how many KwHs i'd need to run electric heaters and figure out:

1. Do i have the roof area to generate enuf electricity to do this
2. How much capital would i have to borrow to install it

[seriousstan]

2. It's like finding a hot icicle. They are notoriously inefficient.

Baseboard heaters use a process called electric resistance to heat a room. The electric cables inside the heater warm the air that passes through it.

[iconoclastNYC]

5. I know that.

But there are some advantages.

There has to be thermal loss in the pipes that transport the hot water thruout the building.

And with baseboards you can do better zone heating. Turn off a room you don't want to heat.


According to the National Propane Gas Association:

No. 2 heating oil is $16.37 per million BTU (at 2.27 gallon)
Electricity is $28.75 per million (at 9.81/kwh)

I mean basically it comes down to .... do i want to spend money burning fossil fuels...or spend money finacing my solar/baseboard heat installation.

I dont know if i have the roof area to do it tho or if I can finance the capital amount.

[jpak]

4. Solar hot air would be better...

There are several systems on the market...

http://shop.altenergystore.com/itemdesc~ic~CANSOLARMAX240~eq~~Tp~.htm

http://www.solarwindowheaters.com/shop/

http://home.att.net/~cleardomesolar/forcedairheater.html

http://shop.altenergystore.com/items~Cc~SOLAIR~CName~Solar+Air+Heaters.htm

http://www.energyalternatives.ca/catalogue/Items/SH-1500G.htm

http://www.solar-components.com/solarway.htm

[iconoclastNYC]

6. Thanks.

Can't do hot air in this building. No room for ducting.

Best I can think I have two options.

Use some sort of roof mounted boiler to feed hot water thru the existing hot water circulation system

or

Use a concentrating sun tracking PV system to run the most efficient baseboard electric heaters I can find.

[Demeter]

7. When in Doubt, Insulate!

90% of solar is insulation: walls, floors, roofs, windows, weatherstripping.

A properly insulated house can maintain itself on internally generated heat (bodies, appliances, lights) with little added external energy. Also, look at window mounted passive solar air heating. The walls can be collectors, too! With a small solar-driven fan, instant zoning on up to three sides of the building.


About electric baseboard heating: it's terribly dirty. The current sets up electromagnetc fields that draw the dust to it, and then the convection currents leave streaks on the walls above the heaters.

I have a ceramic space heater--no moving parts, convection and radiation dispersion. It's quiet and effective. I use it in the unheated lavatory.I just started with it, so I have no idea how clean it is....

[iconoclastNYC]

11. This is an old brick building

I'm not sure how insulation would work.

[Demeter]

15. It Does--Ask a Contractor!

Insulation can be added to anything.

[MADem]

8. Could you hook your source up to econo heaters??

Low wattage, decent output. Can be painted to match decor. I've heard good things about them. No personal experience, though.



Better link, here, to original company: http://www.eheat.com/

[LiberalEsto]

9. Check this DU thread on e-heat

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=353&topic_id=279&mesg_id=279

It's in the frugal living forum. The e-heaters sound wonderful.

[Lefty48197]

10. Great idea

Solar power. Free electricity. Free heat. Sounds like a win/win situation. Baseboard heaters are an excellent way to heat a building, but the only reason we use other methods is the cost. Gas is more efficient "per dollar", but since you're getting free electricity, and you're not burning coal to produce it (like the rest of us are) your system sounds environmentally PERFECT.

[phantom power]

12. Can you use hot-water floorboard heat? That has some advantages.

For instance, you can tie the floorboard water heat in with your regular hot-water, and make the whole system more efficient. Also, you can use solar hot-water as a preheater, which is cheaper than PV. You can still use electricity for the water heater, avoiding the use of natural gas.

[iconoclastNYC]

13. No

Tearing up the floors to do floor board heat would blow this project out of the water I think (no pun intended.)

If I can find a system that would tie into the the existing hot water pipes/radiators that would probably be more cost effective.

[dcfirefighter]

14. PV - geothermal exchange or Solar HotWater - oil/gas

One option would be to get PV to run a ground-source water-water heat pump to make hot (and cold) water, and run them to baseboard radiators. New 'Euro' radiators have a greater area, which can use lower temperature water.

Or, you could use solar hotwater heaters to preheat domestic hot water prior on the intake side of a oil or gas boiler.

Insulating brick can be done, especially at the roof level. Sloped panels of hard insulation can be placed over your roof deck. Spray in polyurethane can be used on the walls.

Best of luck.

[Ready4Change]

16. One advantage of heating water...

One advantage of heating water to use in (existing, I assume) hot water radiators is that it will create a mass of hot water which will continue prodiving some heat once the sun goes down.

The electric baseboard heaters will cease working as soon as the sun hits a certain angle, and not start until it rises above that angle in the morning. Unless you buy grid power at night.