Ethanol - Is It Worth It?

[bananas]

Just wanted to throw this into the discussion of ethanol, because it's from a trade journal, rather than the sources usually quoted here (people like Kunstler with no science background who thought y2k would be the end of civilization, etc etc). Of course, trade journals have their own biases - see the last sentence, quoted below.

This is from the Jan 1 issue of C&EN "Chemical and Engineering News".

http://pubs.acs.org/email/cen/html/010207085554.html

January 01, 2007
Volume 85, Number 01
pp. 19-21

Ethanol—Is It Worth It?

<snip>

Not much of the U.S. corn crop directly feeds humans, however. About half goes to U.S. animal feed; 20% is exported, mostly to feed foreign animals; 20% makes ethanol; and 10% is used for industrial and some food-related products, around half of which is for high-fructose corn sweeteners. Indeed, corn prices are rising due to ethanol demand, the Department of Agriculture says, and cattle, hogs, poultry, meat, milk, and cheese prices will likely follow suit.

These prices will have little effect on the developing world, and it is unclear how the corn market and farming practices will adjust to these price changes in the U.S. For instance, ethanol production from corn also generates "distillers grains," a valuable high-protein by-product used for cattle feed. USDA economists and farmers believe the production of more ethanol could provide enough distillers grains for cattle feed to offset the loss of corn for feed.

<snip>




<snip>

Bruce E. Dale, a chemical engineering professor at Michigan State University, backs the USDA numbers and has applied Pimentel's methodology to making gasoline. He found gasoline production has a 45% net energy loss, worse even than Pimentel's charges for ethanol. He also looked at generating electricity from coal and found a net energy loss of a whopping 240%.

<snip>

Pimentel tells C&EN that he recently applied his model to gasoline production and found it takes about 1.2 gal of oil to produce a gallon of gasoline. He also acknowledges that electricity requires about three times more energy to make than it provides.

<snip>

What's clear is that corn-based feedstock is likely to be the start of a biofuels market, not its end. Innovation and science in this new marketplace have the power to transform biomass-based transportation fuels in the same way they transformed the petrochemical industry in the past century. The future may be cloudy, but it is exciting, and for chemists, it doesn't get much better than that.

[ktlyon]

1. I think we can do something better

solar
wind
wave
thermal heat

If we are burning it, we are messing up.

If we are going to burn for power, why not sugar beets or hemp. Because the corn (ethanol)lobby bribes our elected officials with campaign donations.

[GliderGuider]

2. So Pimentel has calculated an EROEI of 5:1 for gasoline?

That sounds pretty damn reasonable to me, given that the average EROEI of conventional crude at the refinery gate is sitting around 10:1 or a bit less these days. Add the energy costs to refine it, transport it to the gas station and get it into your car - Pimentel sounds like he's in the ballpark to me.

Again, look who's firmly behind ethanol - ADM, Monsanto, corn farmers and economists. What does that tell you, given that it's so heavily subsidized?

[TexasProgresive]

3. I don't think "distillers grains" is going to offset the price of feed

corn going from $1.90 a bushel to $5.00 a bushel. That's the price that Cargil is reported to be offering to farmers in Illinois. Farmers are plowing up their winter wheat fields and planing to plant all corn and no soybeans or other crops. I guess we can drink ethanol and eat distiller's grains.

[bananas]

4. The new fad will be "corn beer"

made from corn instead of barely, hops and rye.
(edit to include barley)

[gravity]

8. Beer is already made form corn

[elocs]

5. It's not worth it. That is unless you are a corn farmer or ADM.

There are those here who will rah-rah ethanol, but there is not enough available land to grow enough crops for ethanol that will make a significant difference. It's simple math, not using smoke and mirrors.

[Moby Grape]

6. MTBE out --> ethanol in

there is strong demand for something
to replace MTBE's octane boosting effect


once the infrastructure for ethanol is in place,
it will be used, because ethanol is useful beyond
mearly its energy content

once ethanol use spreads,
it tends to be useful in all gasoline,
not just reformulated.

expect most US gas to eventually be 10% ethanol,
I don't see higher concentrations, expect in special circustances.

[Strelnikov_]

7. Absolutely. Simply depends upon the implementation

The coal fired, dry mill plant 5 mi. to the east is not worth it considering they could convert the coal to a liquid fuel with an EROEI of 5 versus an EROEI of 1 for the resultant corn ethanol product (along with more DDGS for the saturated DDGS market).

But what says they have to dry mill (producing DDGS)? Why not wet mill which results in food products more amenable to human consumption (70% of food value remains).

What says they have to use coal (or natural gas) for the process energy (67% of energy input for corn ethanol production at the plant). Why not use wind generated electricity, thus converting wind into a valuable liquid fuel? It would require some changes in process design. Bigger tanks, larger heating units, to account for the intermittancy of wind (more of a batch mode).

Why not use co generation? Couldn't the plant have been located 4 mi. to the West, making use of waste heat from the municipal coal fired electric plant?

Now, if the question is can we run our current transportation paradigm on domestically produced ethanol (which means mostly corn) and crop based biodiesel, not even a chance.

On the other hand, if we convert what would remain of the personal transportation fleet to EV's and PHEV's, the 10% of current unleaded consumption that corn ethanol can produce would then meet 100% of the personal transportation liquid fuel demands.