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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 07:29 PM
Original message
Terrorists love lax gun laws in USA
A new report that follows a Congressional investigation has concluded that we need to dramatically strengthen our gun control laws, with respect to known and suspected terrorists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/08/national/08terror.html?ex=1110949200&en=52017921a1dea183&ei=5099&partner=TOPIX

The report found flaws in the system of background checks that are supposed to prevent criminals from buying guns. Instead, the Congressional investigation found, that 47 of 58 terror suspects were allowed to purchase guns during the nine month investigation. The terror suspects passed their criminal background checks, even though "The gun buyers came up as positive matches on a classified internal FBI watch list that includes thousands of terrorist suspects...". Those suspects belong to Islamic fundamentalist and "militia" style terrorists groups.

Senator Frank Lautenberg, "blamed what he called the Bush administration's 'twisted allegiances' to the National Rifle Association for the situation".


"The N.R.A. and gun rights supporters in Congress have fought - successfully, for the most part - to limit the use of the F.B.I.'s national gun-buying database as a tool for law enforcement investigators, saying the database would amount to an illegal registry of gun owners nationwide"

"After initial reluctance from Mr. Ashcroft over Second Amendment concerns, the Justice Department changed its policy in February 2004 to allow the F.B.I. to do more cross-checking between gun-buying records and terrorist intelligence."


The report, "also concluded that the FBI should keep closer track of the performance of state officials who handle gun background checks..."

It's not as if nobody saw this problem coming. In May 2003, my good friends, Senators Chuck Schumer and Frank Lautenberg concluded that "gaping holes in US gun laws could allow terrorists to easily obtain assault weapons, explosives, and other kinds of dangerous arms".

http://schumer.senate.gov/SchumerWebsite/pressroom/press_releases/PR01728.html

"With a new Congressional report being released today (2003) showing that holes in US gun laws could let terrorists easily acquire assault weapons and other guns, US Senators Frank Lautenberg and Charles Schumer urged speedy passage of legislation to tighten the FBI's background check system. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), the federal database of individuals who cannot legally own firearms, was established in 1994 to ensure that firearms purchasers are first subject to a thorough background check."

"In addition, the report found that federal background checks on prospective gun buyers do not use 'terrorist watch' lists used at border crossings and airports."

"According to Americans For Gun Safety (AGS), terrorist groups have repeatedly tried to acquire guns. In September 2001, just two weeks after the terrorist attacks, a Lebanese terrorist named Ali Boumelhem was caught by federal authorities after buying firearms and spare parts at several Michigan gun shows. Boumelhem, a member of Hezbollah, had been observed buying an assault rifle from a private seller at the gun show, which, because of a loophole in the Brady Act, meant that the seller was not required to perform a background check. AGS found several more instances of terrorists shopping at gun shows, including suspected al Qaeda operatives in Texas and Florida and a known IRA gun-runner in Florida.
Back in 2003, Senator Schumer went on to say, "Washington has now been warned three times about ways terrorists can exploit our loopholes to get guns. The White House and Congress are ignoring this at their peril"

I guess they've been warned FOUR times now, eh?

Before the 2003 Congressional report, Senator Schumer had introduced legislation in 2002 to try an correct the problem of the inefficiencies in the background check system. Schumer's legislation was introduced in response to a shooting in a New York church by a man who walked into a firearm shop and was allowed to purchase a gun, even though he had a history of mental health problems and had even been admitted to Bellevue Hospital and Nassau University Medical Center on at least two occasions. In addition, the shooter's mother had a restraining order issued against her son. None of those items turned up on his background check, so he was allowed to purchase the gun.

It appears that al Qaeda and the militia aren't the only terrorists who exploit America's lax gun control laws, in order to arm their insurrections:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Weapons/Guns_Opa_Locka.html

"A few years ago, the government of Colombia asked the United States to trace nearly fifty MAK-90 rifles it had seized from the National Liberation Army, or ELN. It turned out these rifles had been obtained by Colombian gun traffickers after being purchased at retail stores in the Miami area. The ELN is on the State Department's foreign terror watch list. Yet, like many other underground armies around the world, it buys its weapons in one of the world's freest arms markets. "The United States has for many years been a warehouse, a shopping center, if you will, for firearms," says retired Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (AFT) resident agent in charge Daniel McBride, "because of the ease of acquisition, not just in the state of Florida but typically throughout the United States. We are a very easy place from which to obtain firearms for transshipment back home."
Law enforcement officials describe the United States as a one-stop shop for the guns sought by terrorists, mercenaries and international criminals of all stripes. And September 11 has not changed that in any significant way. In fact, Attorney General John Ashcroft has refused to permit the use of gun purchase records to track crimes, a practice that the FBI had previously used and that conceivably could help to identify terrorists. Nor did Ashcroft propose closing gun loopholes as part of the USA Patriot Act. The result of the lax US system, says McBride, is "an ongoing cycle" in which weapons bought here end up fueling violence abroad, and in which America is regarded as the firearms "shopping center for the world."


Apparently the NRA doesn't like the proposed changes to the background check laws.

http://ap.ardmoreite.com/pstories/us/20050308/2867390.shtml

"But the National Rifle Association says the law IS protecting Americans from terrorists while allowing citizens the freedom to own guns. Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's chief executive, said under current law, if the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) gets a hit that someone applying for a gun permit is on a terror watch list, the government official who put that person on the list — along with other counterterrorism personnel — are notified."

Apparently Wayne didn't read the Congressional reports. Two of them concluded that the background check system was inefficient and was allowing suspected terrorists to buy firearms. That doesn't jibe with Wayne's claim that the law "is protecting Americans from terrorists". I also think Wayne was wrong when he tried to claim that everything was hunky-dory when he basically said, "If they appear on the list, then personnel are notified". He completely ignored the fact that the Congressional investigation concluded that the suspected terrorists were NOT appearing in the NICS database.

I would like to appeal to the NRA to select a spokesperson who will actually respond to the issues that have been raised, rather than take his usual knee-jerk "It's a bad idea" reaction to any issue related to gun control. I know that Wayne doesn't want to hear the results of the Congressional study, but does he have to make it so completely obvious that he didn't even read the results of the study?

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Utter BS by the gun-grabbers. If people are suspected, arrest them,
try them promptly, and if guilty sentence them.

Until then, Bush and his cabal have no authority under our Constitution to deny a law-abiding citizen their right to keep and bear arms for defense of self, property, and country.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. my my

Looks like Wayne Lapierre wasn't the only one who didn't bother to read.

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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Could I interest you in...
Explaining that remark? Are you trying to claim that I made a mistake? If so, please feel free to explain it fully.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. c'mon now

Whose post was mine a reply to?

After yesterday, I don't want to get into another round of follow the breadcrumbs just now, please!

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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Investigating terrorists is not bullsh*t
It's very important for keeping our country safe. The problem is the the government agencies aren't sharing the information that could be used to keep guns out of terrorists hands. Why do you have a problem with that?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Because the issue is not more laws, it is enforcing existing laws.
Apparently you and I don't agree on that conclusion.

The idea of sharing information among government agencies is just a cover to register firearms. Once registered, governments can then confiscate them as has happened in some cities and other countries.

As long as we have groups who stridently shout ban every firearm except for law enforcement and the military, then the threat of confiscation is present.
:shrug:
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DavidMS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. I agree
Thats what FISA warants, wiretaps and bumper mounted GPS systems are for.

Gun control has relitively little to do with it.

Getting killing/capturing terrorists is an intelegence/counter intelegence game... Its better to see what the terrorists are up to and figure out their network and only roll it up when we know they are about to strike.

Sept 11 (and most other terrorist attacks) happened not because of weak gun laws, but because of a general lack of survaliance of persons that even the least repressive goverment would have many good reasions to have followed.

Laws that indiscriminately rip away everyone's privacy only make it harder to sift through the availiable information because there is too much of it.

Traditional Human Intelegence of terrorists (as opposed to anti-war activists, see F9/11 for details) is not perticualry civil liberties intrusive and very effective.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. If suspected terrorists are NOT appearing in the NICS database
Then we really don't have a problem with terrorists buying firearms from legal sources here, do we?

:shrug:
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The reports said that terrorists were in fact buying guns
and yes sir, that is a problem.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. How many people in the USA have been shot dead by terrorists?
Since the Branch Davidian raid, if you want to call that terrorism on the part of the wacko Davidians.

There is aa thriving international gray market with millions of real military firearms in circulation. The idea that terrorists buying US sporting arms could contribute significantly to the problem of gun-running in the world seems pretty lame.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. It seems that some of the terrorists consider the USA a source for arms
My post mentioned the Hezbollah guy. Who knows what he had planned for his gun and the "spare parts" he was buying. (I wonder if he was buying the part that needs to be machined in order to convert to full auto?). My post also mentioned the terrorist group in South America that was buying arms in the USA. One of the other links I read had a quote from an IRA arms dealer that basically said the US was a supermarket of guns. Personally, I think we have an obligation to the rest of the world to prevent terrorists from buying guns in our country, to use for insurrection in their countries.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. A (one) Hezbollah guy
Who knows what he had planned for his gun and the "spare parts" he was buying.

Only he knows for sure.

(I wonder if he was buying the part that needs to be machined in order to convert to full auto?).

That would be the receiver. It's the only part that's legally a firearm.

My post also mentioned the terrorist group in South America that was buying arms in the USA. One of the other links I read had a quote from an IRA arms dealer that basically said the US was a supermarket of guns. Personally, I think we have an obligation to the rest of the world to prevent terrorists from buying guns in our country, to use for insurrection in their countries.

In the broader context of the real international military arms trade this story is a yawner. The number of weapons described here is tiny.

I agree we shouldn't be allowing terrorists to buy guns here, but how do you stop them completely? Pass a law closing the "gun-show loophole" and you simply channel people who have guns to sell and people who want to buy used guns to different venues.
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camaro3232 Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. They would not want weapons sold in the U.S.
Edited on Tue Mar-08-05 10:48 PM by camaro3232
An AK sold here would cost $400-$1000, In many third world countries they can be had for less than $100. And they would never but them in a store. And as far as converting them to full auto you cannot buy those parts. What is it with crazy gun grabbers? why do they think a full-auto gun is so much more dangerous?
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. The "watch list" contains THIRTEEN MILLION names...
Do you want to treat all of them as criminals?

13 Million on Terror Watch List

And the actual list is secret, so there's no way to know if you've been put on it or not. And no way to appeal.

Living in the same neighborhood as a "terror suspect" can get you put on the list, as can working for the same company. I suppose buying the wrong book from amazon.com, posting the wrong opinion of the War on Terra on a website, or checking out the wrong book from the library could also get you put on the "list."

And this doesn't bother you???
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I thought to be a suspect...
there had to be an identified crime.

Wouldn't "potential" terrorist be better.

Ahhh, BushCo and Newspeak.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Federal law already makes it a crime.
QUOTE
(a) It shall be unlawful—
UNQUOTE

for anyone except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to deal in firearms or ammunition through foreign commerce.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 922. Unlawful acts.

The problem, as always, is enforcing existing laws not passing more laws that cannot be enforced.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The point of my post was:
That information obtained by state and other law enforcement agencies, was not appearing on the NICS database. The solution to the problem is to get that information into the database.
Why did you go off on the "enforce the existing law, don't pass more" bit? I really wish you would address the actual issue of the incomplete database. THAT is the source of this problem.

You stated that "Federal law already makes it a crime", and then went on to reference:
"TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 922. Unlawful acts."

Does the information in your source direct the various agencies to put all of their information into the NICS database? That is after all the question presented. Any other response would tend to distract from the point of my thread.



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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. You make a good point
NICS's greatest weakness is poor data quality. Some states viewed it as an unfunded federal mandate and have been dragging their feet for years.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. My reply #1 said "If people are suspected, arrest them,
try them promptly, and if guilty sentence them. Until then, Bush and his cabal have no authority under our Constitution to deny a law-abiding citizen their right to keep and bear arms for defense of self, property, and country."

That has nothing to do with NICS but it has everything to do with innocent until a jury finds someone guilty.

Bush has illegally detained Jose Padilla for 2 1/2 years without access to a lawyer or judicial review. That's just one of tens of thousands on the expanding suspect terrorist list.

If I understand your position, you want everyone on Bush's suspected terrorist list to be in NICS. For what purpose? Do you want to use that as the basis for preventing a law-abiding citizen from exercising their civil right to keep and bear arms?

As I said on another thread, why not deny suspects the right to vote and other civil rights.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Maybe I'm one ?
last may my son and I took mt mom to the airport and asked if we could escort her to the terminal because she is 93 an born deaf and she needed a wheelchair because she can't walk that far we were given an OK and the they gave us what was called dummy boarding passes so we could go through security, i thought great we gave them our drivers license they gave us our pass and on we went to the security area, and both I, and my son, were singled out because we had an "S" on the passes, no big thing I thought till we got to the gate when I realized our presence was uncomforted to the personnel there. well that was it. but I tried to find out about the"S" thing on line and all that showed up that we were suspected terrorist! and alot of conspire theories, OMG! i thought, what the hell is going on, well the next Saturday I went to our local hardware store and bought a hand gun, a cheep one mind you just to see if I would get an OK through the FBI back round check and 3 days later it was approved. so my question , am I one of the suspected terrorist? although I know we are not terrorist.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Were you wearing BDU's with an NRA cap?
That might raise a red flag among airport security.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. No it won't...
At least in some states.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I don'T think
it had anything to do with how we looked, we gave our ID and got an "S".
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camaro3232 Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Why the hell would BDU's and a NRA cap raise a flag?
That is almost dumber than this article. What is more American than a redneck in BDU's and a NRA cap? They would be the last person considered a terror. A redneck type of gun like that would be the first one in line to protect america .
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. sometimes one can only roll one's eyes
They would be the last person considered a terror<ist?>.
A redneck type of gun like that would be the first one
in line to protect america.


I don't really doubt the first statement. But for the same reason, the second one puzzles me.

I don't actually know what a BDU is, but I'd say that the odds that somebody wearing an NRA cap voted Republican were pretty high. (The retired couple in the NRA caps that my mother and brother met on a cruise around Montreal Island certainly had to bite their tongues hard when my brother coyly remarked on how well their former President Clinton was looking after his surgery.)

Maybe they'd be the first in line to send their kids off to murder a few Iraqis ... but their gun would be first in line to "protect america"?

If so, then what the fuck are they doing voting Republican? Does their gun secretly vote Democrat or something? And will it be turning on its homophobic mysogynist Republican-voting owners, to "protect america" from THEM, come the revolution?

Such strange bedfellows as one does notice sometimes ...

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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Certainly no stranger bedfellows than...
the so-called progressives pimping for king pretzelchimps war on terra...



"Such strange bedfellows as one does notice sometimes ..."


Indeed.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. After thinking about it....
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 05:24 PM by MrSandman
Didn't the TSA decide not to profile?

on edit: Even if some continue to do so.
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. The "S" on the pass simply means that the holder gets
the more thorough search at the checkpoint.

As I understand it, they're given out randomly to passengers and assistance folks alike in most cases.

I've heard that some TSA supervisors request (read require) that all assistance personnel get the "S" pass. Mostly, IMO, it that sense of power for some airline employees and TSA types.
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. Questions
Who's on this list? How do you get on this list? How do you get off this list? How does one know if they're on the list?

A fascist government keeps a secret dossier on suspected 'enemies of the state', goes through no due-process or public disclosure to name the people on this list, and because some people (we don't know who, and probably they don't even know themselves) bought guns while on the secret list (which no one outside the gestap...erm FBI and Homeland Security has ever seen) there's some sort of problem?

Maybe these 'terrorist suspects' were active members of the Democratic Party. Because, our government is benevolent and would never put people on secret lists naming them as terrorists if they didn't belong on it. Not *THIS* government, not *THIS* administration. Oh no.

If you question the list, then the terrorists have already won.

Once I know whose on the list, then I'll give a damn if they buy guns or not.

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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. It's a shame to see...
Edited on Tue Mar-08-05 10:49 PM by Redneck Socialist
Democrats pimping the War on Terror(TM). The bush gang gets derided for trotting out that old scare pony every time they want something and with good cause. I had hoped that Democrats would would a little more honest, but alas they've seen how effective a tactic it has proved to be for bush and co.

Senator Schumer didn't get much applause when he tried this song and dance back in 2002, but it looks like he has slapped some new lipstick on his favorite pig. 'It's the terror! It's the Terror! Squeal! Squeal!' Sorry Senator I ain't buying it.

"Schumer and Lautenberg are sponsoring complementary legislation that would, among other things...require the FBI to improve the NICS database to ensure that foreign nationals suspected of being linked to terrorism are kept from buying and stockpiling guns."

Well the US does have a long and ignoble tradition of beating up on foreigners, why stop now.

Those damn feriners aside, isn't anyone else the least bit suspicious of this administrations motive for drawing up lists of suspected "terrorists?" Bad enough that they exist at all, expanding the scope of such lists strikes me as an extremely bad idea.

On edit: I guess this is the newest Gun Control Redi-Mix. Just Add Terror!

Mix 22 references to terror or terrorists add one each of Hezbollah, al Qaeda and Islamic Fundamentalists (We all know how scary they are!) Season extensively with assault weapons and toss in one reference to "the gun show loophole" as a garnish! Bake with overheated rhetoric in the mass media oven

Voila! a tasty, scare-a-licious treat the whole family can enjoy!

Don't forget your duct tape and plastic sheeting and by God make sure your papers are in order, just in case we wanna check. Remember if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. After all we're keepin' a list and we're checkin' it twice. For your own good of course. And no we never make mistakes.
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camaro3232 Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. You have to be an idiot not to see right though this propaganda
What is putting them on a list going to do? If they are so dangerous get them out of the U.S. They are only "Suspects". Its all propaganda. The Bush administration uses it to justify the war in Iraq and now the democrats are using it to help them pass new gun laws. They think they will get votes, claiming they are protecting people from terror by making harsher gun laws. Anyone with common sense can see that. Didn't think Democrats would miss use the war on terror though for their advantage. Oh all the terror "suspects" how many used their guns for crimes? This is America it is innocent until proven guilty, they are not definitely terrorist. Its just a propaganda list made by the Bush administration just like this article is propaganda by some democrats.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. What utter rubbish
Yes, let's block sales of firearms from people on some arbitrary, hidden list without evidence or oversight.

Will the gun-grabbers on this board be as happy when the gov't puts DU'ers on the list (if we aren't already on it)?
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. Terrorists love our open society, period...
it lets them communicate freely, lets them avoid being stopped and searched without probable cause, prevents their phones from being tapped without probable cause, lets them travel nationwide without having to stop at government checkpoints, etc. etc.

Let's just use "terrorism" to trash ALL the Bill of Rights, then...

This is NO different from the rhetoric the neocons use to clamor for the Patriot Act and suspensions of the Fourth Amendment.
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
27. Let's just lock up everyone suspected of any crime
or anyone suspected of possibly being involved in any future crime. Such a program would save us huge amounts of grief and expense. Hell, let's just lock up everyone at birth. One never knows how those babies will turn out when they're grown up.

Better yet, let's just expand the Patriot Act to include everyone who ever spoke ill of the U.S., it's government, or alllies. That ought to do the trick.

Who needs that idea about innocent until proven guilty anyway? If we think they might commit a crime, let's just deny all civil rights.

Maybe the old camp at Manzanar can be rebuilt and we'll just put 'em all in there - just in case. After all, their religion and/or ethnicity makes them automatic threats to the U.S. Besides, they look different from most of us - all that dark hair and olive skin. Yeah, that's the ticket. If they're not God fearing Christians and/or have middle eastern physical charachteristics or surnames; let's just go ahead and lock their asses up. That'll show 'em.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. Some other possible titles for this story:
"Legal Buyers Buying Firearms" (shock, horror)

"Leading Gun-Grabber Senator Makes Annual Pass At Establishing National Firearms Registry"

"Bureaucratic ???? Ups Allow Terror Suspects to Arm Themselves"

(thanks to jfh of the High Road, http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=129040)

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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
33. suspected possible associates of suspected possible future terrorists!
All is lost... unless we get tough now! It will take a six-inch thick binder of new laws and regulations to rid the land of every possible loophole that might have been useful to these Suspected Possible Associates of Suspected Possible Future Terrorists. But, my gawd, it will be so worth it!

And doing things this way will make a lot more sense than -- say -- merely deporting a few hostile aliens to their countries of origin, or gathering evidence against specific individuals and charging them accordingly.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Maybe it would be easier to just seal the borders
<sarcasm>

Hell, MOVE the damn borders.

Keep those nasty foreigners out. Fifty-four forty or fight!

</sarcasm>
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. I just love this part...
The terror suspects passed their criminal background checks, even though "The gun buyers came up as positive matches on a classified internal FBI watch list that includes thousands of terrorist suspects...".

Not only is the list "classified," but they are "suspects."

Sounds like Patriot III: "Anyone not vetted and deemed accaptable by the DoJ will be considered a risk to national security and their freedom of speech, association, and suffrage may be restricted."
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
37. On the radio today....
It was reported there are 100 attempts daily to hack into the computer system of the nation's power grid.

Wouldn't a better lead be:
"Terrorists Love Lax US Computer Laws"?
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
40. This morning on the news...
"Terrorists Love Lax US General Aviation Laws"

If we are going to help BushCo spread fear based on the WoT, we may as well be consistent.
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