See: General Discussion: Politics "Latest spam anti-Clinton email: gun control"

[SteveM]

wherein some concern is expressed about the "spammer" pointing to Hillary's record. I referred all to http://civilliberty.about.com/od/ussenators/p/hillary_clinton.htm

[comradebillyboy]

1. I and a couple other NRA members I know are supporting

Hillary. NRA likes to use the specter of Hillary taking our guns away to raise more money. NRA provides a lot of valuable services for shooters, including organizing competitions, gun safety training etc, but their politics are horrible. Too many democratic gun nuts to really have serious gun control. NRA endorsed Bill Richardson here in New Mexico.

[jody]

2. I don't believe our next president can do serious damage to RKBA but voter perceptions can keep

her/him from being elected.

IMO, any president who tried unilaterally to restrict RKBA would encounter a tsunami of public opposition and congress would put her/him in place immediately.

Given that, I believe our next president will have more important things to consider beginning with reelection than RKBA.

IMO Hillary is not a threat to RKBA but her gun-grabber persona will cost her votes, perhaps enough to keep her from the Oval office just as it did with Gore and Kerry.

It's too late for Hillary to try to change her image by going goose hunting so she's stuck with her past just as Obama is. :shrug:

[fightthegoodfightnow]

4. Hillary Clinton

........... supports the assault weapons ban.
........... supports local autonomy of gun laws.
........... supports closing illegal gun stores.
........... supports accurate and update to date data bases to insure criminals and the mentally ill do not have guns.

Do you have a problem with any of that?

(Just saw her on the MSNBC debate on the question)

[ManiacJoe]

5. Yes, I have a problem with that.

#3 and #4 are good; it appears she supports the current laws.

The "assault weapon" bait-and-switch served no useful purpose except to inconvenience the law abiding citizens.

"Local autonomy of gun laws" is often a bad thing because it creates an patchwork of gun laws that cannot be tracked by the normal citizenry. WA state tried this for a few years. You could travel on I-90 from one side of the state to the other and have your legal status change multiple times (11?). After the cities and counties admitted that they never even arrested anyone under their extra laws -- say nothing about convict anyone -- the state went back to preempting all local gun laws so that there was only one set (from the state) to deal with.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

6. Yes... #3 and #4 are good

........ I agree.

[ac2007]

9. Hmmm...

If Congress passes #1 (again), there won't be a Democratically controlled Congress anymore. President Hilliary would be very wise to veto it if it did land on her desk as it is highly unlikely such a law would be a repeat of the 1994 AWB. If passed, it would seriously piss off gun owners who such guns in the public perception such as myself. It wouldn't affect the President so much as Congress. Bear in mind that President Bush himself stated he would sign another AWB if it landed on his desk so there goes the theory that Republicans are friends of gun owners. Different stripes, same outcome.

#2 has already be covered by another poster who is correct: States have largely scuttled this in favor of preemption. The reason is it is unreasonable to expect a person to know all of the local gun laws between their origin and destination. It became a trap for the unwary and since ignorance of the law is no excuse, a potential club to browbeat the law-abiding. Besides, it's a State issue, not Federal.

#3. What on Earth is an "illegal gun store"?!? For your information, the manufacturer and sale of firearms in the USA is the most highly regulated consumer business there is, bar none. Not even drug makers are held to such a high level of scrutiny. Firearms are the ONLY consumer product in the USA that requires FBI permission to purchase. You CANNOT sell guns as a means of earning income under ANY circumstance without a Federal license to do so. There is NO SUCH THING as an illegal gun store.

#4 is already done. HR.2640 and was signed into law by President Bush a couple of weeks ago. Contrary to uninformed (read: gun controllers) opinion, it is NOT a gun control bill. It provides funding to bring NICS up-to-date at the State level and more importantly, funds (until Congress decides otherwise) the ability of people to get their rights restored. Until now, the law existed for it but absent funding for the program, it was a paper law with no value to a wronged citizen. HR.2640 changed that.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

15. Hmmmm....

#1....... That's called a democracy. If Congress passes #1, it will be with the knowledge that they are accountable to the people, including you.
#2...... Not knowing the law as a defense is as unreasonable as breaking it.
#3..... Pick up a paper. Virginia has closed at least four 'illegal gun stores' in the last four months..... you know the ones that ignore or break the law.
#4..... Call it what you want, but it will save lives from guns.

[SecularNATION]

10. Yes, I do

1) the assault weapons ban didn't do a thing except cause manufacturers to cosmetically alter weapons that fit the description of "assault weapon". BTW, what do you think an assault rifle is? Why do you think they should be banned?

2) as has been pointed out, local autonomy causes more problems than it solves. Many states have completely abandoned it, and for good reason.

3) what is an "illegal gun store"?

4) we already have a data base for felons.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

14. Read and Heed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/16/AR2008011603522.html

[Recursion]

20. I have a huge problem with #1. You should too.

If you don't have the problem with the AWB, tell me what you liked about it. I can't imagine anybody who actually knows what that bill said supporting it.

[I work for workers]

22. Yes, I do have a problem with those things.

Clinton (and Edwards and Obama) has a shameful record of trying to destroy the Second Amendment. All of those things violate our rights.

My litmus test to judge a persons intelligence: if you have actually looked into the Assault Weapons Ban and think it is a good piece of legislation, you are not very bright.

[Major Hogwash]

3. "Clinton enjoys even more support among black Democrats than Barack Obama" - from that article

I don't think they know what they are talking about.

[lancer78]

7. ....

God, I hope SCOTUS rules in favor of gun rights this year. The NRA will go bankrupt with the spectre of gun-grabbers gone.

[jody]

8. Perhaps not bankrupt but return to important issues, e.g. safety, competition, training. n/t

[SecularNATION]

11. Spectre

"gun-grabbers gone"

I wish they WOULD go away, or at least, get out of the Democratic Party.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

13. Suggesting You Have More in Common with Bush than Democrats

LOL.

[SecularNATION]

16. Not at all...

Unlike Bush, I wish the Democratic Party well. I want the Dems to win more elections, which would happen if the anti-gun fanatics disappeared.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

17. Not at All Indeed

Democrats are winning regardless of the support of the 'gun fanatics' as you call them.

[beevul]

23. Really?

Explain how the PRO-GUN Democratic congress happened then.

[Tejas]

18. Though you push the Brady agenda at every opportunity

Keep doing the Republican's work for them, you will be rewarded komrade.

[Major Hogwash]

19. Most liberals don't run around calling everyone else komrade.

Not even in Texas.

[SteveM]

12. A favorable ruling might save the Democrats from themselves.

[jody]

21. Tom Head, the author of your OP citation says "I want to see Barack Obama elected as the next

President of the United States, and I'm not going to pretend that I don't." see http://civilliberty.about.com/

Head in his Barack Obama on Civil Liberties, says "The Second Amendment - Supports Increased Gun Control: Obama holds an F rating from the NRA, and he tends to support any gun control legislation that comes his way."

Head says about Hillary, "The Second Amendment - Supports Increased Gun Control: Clinton has received an F rating from the NRA, and strongly supported Bill Clinton's gun control efforts while serving as First Lady."

Head says about Edwards, "The Second Amendment - Supports Increased Gun Control: In a 2004 editorial, NRA-ILA executive director Chris Cox wrote that while Edwards' record was "characterized primarily by poor attendance," he "voted against gun owners--or didn't show up to vote at all--83% of the time." Information on his Senate NRA rating is pending, but Edwards' positions on gun rights issues are consistent with other leading Democratic candidates who have received an F grade."

IMO Edwards is out of the race leaving the choice between Hillary and Obama.

Hillary is pragmatic and Bill clearly has warned her about how Gore and Kerry lost in large part because they were viewed as gun-grabbers.

Regardless of her personal beliefs about guns, I don't believe she would be a threat to RKBA if elected president.

I can't say the same about Obama.

[SteveM]

24. Frankly, I want to hear & see them on 2A. Now. Everyone has a stake in it.