Guess i shouldnt have a right to privacy

[bossy22]

as a college student

http://www.vpc.org/press/0802groups.htm

Statement of National Gun Violence Prevention Organizations in Wake of Northern Illinois University Shooting
Washington, DC--Following yesterday’s mass shooting at Northern Illinois University which left six dead, including the shooter, and 16 wounded, America’s leading national gun violence prevention organizations, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, and the Violence Policy Center, issued the following joint statement:

“Our sympathies go to all those affected by this terrible tragedy.

America is in a gun crisis. Yesterday’s shooting at Northern Illinois University was the sixth mass shooting in less than two weeks. On college campuses, in malls and stores, and in our neighborhoods, our nation is paying the ultimate price for the ease with which we allow almost anyone access to increasingly powerful weaponry. Yet all too many of our elected officials remain deaf to the daily toll guns exact across our nation. Mass shootings are not a force of nature unstoppable by man. They are the predictable result of our nation’s weak gun policies, and much can be done to prevent them.

To prevent future mass shootings we must begin to ratchet down the firepower that is available to civilians. For years, we have outlined proposals to reduce gun violence. We call on the presidential candidates to make gun violence prevention a priority issue. We demand that Congress hold hearings on gun violence prevention. And we urge federal and state policymakers to act immediately to implement policies such as those outlined below that will work to reduce the carnage:

An effective ban on all semiautomatic assault weapons. In addition, the Bush Administration should act immediately to better enforce the existing federal ban on the importation of foreign-made assault weapons.


A complete ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.


Ensure that all gun sales at gun shows are subject to a background check.


Establish a system whereby university officials are notified when a student purchases a gun from a gun dealer.”



sometimes they make the Brady bunch look good
i have come to the conclusion that the VPC believes "the ends always justify the means"

[Lex1775]

1. Unbelievable

So if I go buy a gun at the next gun show here in Phoenix, the VPC wants my purchase to be forwarded to the officials of the college where I attend classes... even though I am a veteran... and am closer to 30 than 20?

Fuck the VPC

This is defacto registration. And how the hell do they plan on paying for all of these notification systems?

[mike_c]

2. hear hear!

It is time to STOP the proliferation of guns in American society.

[johnbraun]

3. "It is time to STOP the proliferation of homosexuals in American society."

Liberals like me don't act in such a manner.

Intolerance and bigotry have no place in the Democratic Party.

[mike_c]

6. dude, that is just about the lamest argument I've heard today....

Oh my, where to begin? First, I presume you're willing to extend that argument to other aspects of American political life, e.g. "Why are we being so intolerant of neocons and their cronies. All this bigotry against conservative war-mongerers is just so unseemly!"

Seeking solutions to social problems isn't bigotry, and if I'm intolerant of plans that continue the present train wreck then I guess I'm proud of it. I mean, we've tried the experiment of easy gun ownership and what we've gotten is a society steeped in gun violence. I'd say that experiment hasn't worked. Is it bigotry and intolerance to advocate an end to failed and counterproductive policies? Again, that's bigotry that I'm proud of!

Finally, I'd argue that many folks like yourself simply fear positive social change because it requires them to make sacrifices on behalf of the collective good. It seems rather obvious that Americans would be safer and less likely to die from gun violence if guns are not readily available to anyone, period. Again, that argument is meaningful only in the context we find ourselves in today-- people killing one another during disputes that should never escalate beyond angry words and maybe a few blows. Take guns away and the punk kid that wants your wallet has to wrestle you for it-- he might still get the wallet, but you're both more likely to walk away alive. If people didn't kill one another over stupid things or if they didn't resort to gun violence instead of just doing a little mutual chest pounding then there wouldn't be any gun problem in America. But again, we've tried the experiment and it has failed miserably. How much longer should the rest of us "tolerate" the gun toting violence prone crowd with chips on their shoulders and "make my day" sneers?

on edit-- this is of course a reply to your ORIGINAL post, which accused me of bigotry against gunmen.

[johnbraun]

10. Uh, no.

"Why are we being so intolerant of neocons and their cronies. All this bigotry against conservative war-mongerers is just so unseemly!"

Because as a DEMOCRATIC site where half the membership owns a gun, and where 39% of the gun owners in this country are Democrats (source: Gallup), we cannot afford to be intolerant and bigoted towards DEM gun owners. We can talk shit about neocons all we want, but because this is a DEM site we shouldn't be intolerant towards other DEMS and those who would vote for us.

"Seeking solutions to social problems isn't bigotry"

Funny, the Rethuglicans say the exact same thing about gays. Barf.

Even Bill Clinton himself said that gun bigotry causes Dems to lose. As a lifelong DEM, I don't want to go down that road again. I want to STOP the war, and stop supporting the military-industrial complex - and that's going to take a DEM in high office. To get there, we have to root out the intolerance towards gun owners in the Democratic Party.

[mike_c]

12. so we should support failed and counterproductive gun policies...

...because some democrats advocate them? Like the southern dems who sought to maintain segregation, perhaps? Please. That's just ridiculous.

[johnbraun]

20. Segregation is bigoted. Therefore it has no place in the Dem party.

Southern Dems also came up with the term "Niggertown Saturday Night Special" to describe a cheap handgun a black person might buy for defense.

The roots of gun control are horrifyingly racist and bigoted. Us Dems need to cast it off.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. Interesting. I never heard that term before.

I've heard "Saturday Night Special", as a non-race-related term for a cheap handgun a poor person might buy for protection.

I still have one, from the days before I could afford Smith&Wesson or Sig. I couldn't, in good consience, sell it or give it to someone I like.
:)

[bossy22]

21. what do you

consider a counterproductive gun policy?

[Turbo Teg]

27. Of course not

As long as your talking about registration, banning CCW, banning handguns, Banning high capacity magazines and semi-autos.

[WWFZD]

14. Seeking solutions to social problems such as

drunk driving and spousal abuse do not require violating the constitution.
We've also tried many plans that have done nothing to alleviate the train wreck of drug abuse, I guess the answer to the drug abuse train wreck is more drug laws and stricter enforcement, huh? It seems rather obvious that Americans would be safer and less likely to die from the abuse of alcohol if alcohol is not readily available to anyone, period.
Here in America we don't violate the BoR for the "collective good". If you would like to mobilize and organize like minded folks in an effort to repeal the second Amendment, have it at, I'll participate. Lay out all the facts before the public and we'll all engage in constructive debate. Amendments have been repealed before. But then again the repealing of the 18th amendment made us less safe, not more. So maybe we should repeal the 21st amendment that repealed the 18th amendment and be safe, or more safe? or less safe?? It's all so confusing.
As for me, if the support of individual freedom, responsibility and choice makes me "fear positive social change" then I'm proud to fear positive social change".
And by far the best way to not have to "tolerate the gun toting violence prone crowd" is for the vast majority of us - who go about our day taking care of family, hanging with friends, working with mostly enjoyable coworkers - to go about "toting", ourselves.

[bossy22]

18. i always try never to use

the collective good arguement- cause it can be used against me. you can claim that the Patriot Act is for the greater good, Guantanamo bay, end of haebeus corpus. you can even claim getting rid of the 4th amendment is for the greater good- sure a few of us will wind up in jail for things we didnt do, but there would certainly be less criminals on the streets

[WWFZD]

19. Don't just try, never use the "collective good" argument

and you'll be a libertarian before you know it ;)
The greatest crimes against humanity throughout history have been done in the name of the common good.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-- C. S. Lewis

[Turbo Teg]

26. Your arguement

All hinges on if you could get everygun in America gone, but we all know, criminals will always have guns. Even if America bans guns all together, the only people who are gonna listen are the law abiding. So the "punk kid" will probably still have a pistol, or a knife, and you will more than likely still loose your life. Loose gun laws huh? Like the loose gun laws in Illinois? Maybe if someone at the university had a CCW permit, the shooting would have been cut short. People who don't know about a subject should probalby keep thier mouths shut and thier minds open.

[rAVES]

28. nice try...

[johnbraun]

29. Is that all you have?

Gun control is fundamentally racist, classist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, and ageist. It has no place in the Democratic Party.

[monktonman]

4. Hear, hear! thanks Mike

Been alot of these type posts today.
Same couple of jokers just pretending.
eventually they'll get bored and leave.

[johnbraun]

5. Stop the intolerance!

Bigotry in any form has no place in the Democratic Party.

[monktonman]

7. Are you guys friends?

the three of you?
I'm no bigot, I just think your an idiot whos not fooling anyone.

[mike_c]

9. I have no idea who the DUer is....

:shrug:

[johnbraun]

11. Yes, you are bigoted...

...and bigotry of ANY type towards other Dems has no place in the Democratic Party.

[monktonman]

13. Lather, rinse, repeat.... n/t

[johnbraun]

22. ...until the Democratic Party is cleansed of irrational anti-gun intolerance. Exactly.

[bossy22]

15. the OP

was about how the proposal on the bottom is unconstitutional just plain wrong. Infact i would go as far to say it would be discriminitory against college students. As a college student im an adult and subject to all the laws and protections that any other adult is subject to. These shouldnt continge on whether im enrolled in a facility for higher learning or not

[bossy22]

16. mike_C

its understandable if you want to stop the proliferation of guns- but are you willing to do it by any means? Are you willing to send police officers to smash in doors in search of guns under the guise that it is going to make us all safety? I'm asking do the ends always justify the means?

the VPC is an orginization that is the far wing of the gun control movement. To them the ends always justify the means- to them having police break down doors of every american in order to force a gun ban is a "small price to pay for safety" They are willing to berate gun owners and equate them to child molestors in public. They want to humiliate a person if they decide to take up target shooting- they want random weapons checks of cars, of homes.

there is the right way to get things done and there is the wrong way- the VPC certainly chooses the wrong way most of the time

[DonP]

8. And what difference would any of that have made at NIU?

"Establish a system whereby university officials are notified when a student purchases a gun from a gun dealer.”

The guy that did the shooting was not an NIU student he was a grad student at U of I at the time. He had been an undergrad at NIU sev eral years prior, so I'm assuming that they would notify the school he was currently attending.

And they would know he was off his meds ... how?

He waited 6 weeks or more to get his FOID card. 3 days each to pick up the handguns and a day for the shotgun.

He bought them all through a FFL class 1 store and he passed all the NICS checks and the Illinois State Police checks.

He used semi-auto handguns and an old pump action shotgun.

For these reasons we need another congressional commitee to investigate another assault weapons ban and to close an imaginary gun show loophole? And I'm not even touching the political price we paid for the last phony "ban" that got passed on our watch in 1993.

FWIW, in Illinois all firearms sales, even at gun shows, must go through a class 1 FFL and the NICS check.

Or is anybody here in favor of opening up medical records for mental health issues to the government, and remember who runs the government before you get all eager to share private matters with this administration and start demanding that all those evil guns have to be registered.

Just keep in mind who will have that list if we do it and what the next set of medical records they may want to be able to review might be.

[bossy22]

17. the only thing that could have prevented NIU

from being a SHOOTING would be either a ban on all functional firearms or a more up-to-date background check.

I capitlized shooting because i remember that same day i read that 7 people were killed and a dozen injured when a small rice rocket (little suped-up car) lost control and slammed into a crowd of people. IT wouldnt have taken much effort for this guy to do the same thing- being on a college campus i can tell you when classes are out, there are thousands of people walking on the side walk near the road. Scary thought is, if someone really wanted to take a "few of us out" it wouldnt be hard to just drive 60 mph and turn their car into the crowd of people out in front of the lecture hall

[high_and_mighty]

23. The article didn't mention the "gun show loophole..."

for private sales. It simply mentioned making it necessary to have a background check to buy any gun at a gun show. Semantics to some but at least its intellectually honest.

I have my own idea on that matter and I believe it is shared by others. I think a bill allowing people without ffls to use NICS would satisfy most as an acceptable compromise. Although there would need to be some kind of safe guard in there to prevent abuse. As well I'm sure some sort of fee to cover any additional costs for the system.

[krispos42]

24. Tsk tsk tsk... you KNOW we have to punish EVERYBODY

that owns guns, AND we have to pass laws that, even if they were fully in force a decade before the latest moral panic is plastered across the 46" LCD screens of America in glorious 1080i by the "if it bleeds, it leads" corporate infotainment media conglomorates!

Just, like, because. Or something...

[Indy Lurker]

30. Dosen't 10 round magazine promote larger calibers?

If I'm limited to 10 rounds, I might as well get a squeeze as much firepower into the 10 rounds I have, such as a Glock 21 in .45 I think the full capacity magazine is only 11 or 13 rounds.