changing the relationship between the Democratic Party and the nra.

[beevul]

The nra is led by republicans. Its said here all the time. And basically its true. I have said it more than once that discussion of the nra and thier leadership is incomplete without discussing why they continue to be led by the people that lead them. And while I believe there is truth in that, it really wont answer any of questions that are important to the discussion of the nra and its reciprocating
relationship to the Democratic party.

The nra does endorse democrats, such as Bill Richardson and a host of others, and that has increased to my knowledge over the last few years. The real question, is whether or not people on both sides of the debate would be interested in seeing the relationship between the Democrats improve.


So, without further verbiage, here it is:


Would you like to see the reciprocating relationship between Democrats and the nra improve to the point where the nra can back to being about gun safety and conservation, rather than being destroyers of Democrats and Democratic core principals?

[benEzra]

1. I read an interesting factoid yesterday....

the NRA contributes more funds to Democrats than the entire gun-control/gun-ban lobby combined.

The flip side of that coin is that currently, they give even more to repubs. It's more balanced on the state level than on the national level, but it's still quite lopsided.

I would like to see them become less partisan. It's one thing to take sides in a given race solely on the gun issue, but it's quite another to bring someone like Huckabee in to speak at your convention solely because he's a repub.

[iverglas]

3. gee, I wonder

How did you miss the factoid (congratulations, correct use of word) in question when it was posted here a mere week ago?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=170835#170851


It's one thing to take sides in a given race solely on the gun issue, but it's quite another to bring someone like Huckabee in to speak at your convention solely because he's a repub.

It surely is, isn't it? Gosh, I wonder what it could possibly mean ...

[benEzra]

4. No, I missed that thread...

and I don't dispute your point about the NRA's partisanship on the Federal level, something a lot of people (including me) are advocating to change. And if AHSA ever decides to become an alternative to the NRA, that'd be great.

But those numbers do show that the Brady Campaign has fallen a long way since the early '90s, and their adoption of nonsensical (and radioactive) positions had a lot to do with it. Look up "Pyhrric victory" in the dictionary and you might see photos of gun-control lobbyists celebrating the introduction of S.1878 (Brady II) in 1994, and the passage of the Feinstein law a few months later. What support they do have anymore is kilometers wide and millimeters deep.

[iverglas]

2. "the NRA"

Would you like to see the reciprocating relationship between Democrats and the nra improve to the point where the nra can back to being about gun safety and conservation, rather than being destroyers of Democrats and Democratic core principals?

If the NRA is about anything poltical at all, isn't it violating its tax status?

The NRA's PAC, on the other hand, and the NRA-ILA, its political agitation wing, those are different matters. Are those what you're talking about? They have nothing to do with gun safety or conservation, unless they happen to take some sort of political stand relating to one of those, or lobby in relation to them. As I understand it.

Hmm. Does wiki have it right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association

The National Rifle Association, or NRA, is a non-profit group dedicated to the protection of the Second Amendment of the United States Bill of Rights and the promotion of firearm ownership rights, marksmanship, firearm safety, and the protection of hunting and self-defense in the United States.

I don't actually see anything looking like a mission statement at the NRA website. This:

While widely recognized today as a major political force and as America's foremost defender of Second Amendment rights, the NRA has, since its inception, been the premier firearms education organization in the world.

Headlines at nra.org today:

RNS POSTS NEW WEB VIDEO: "OBAMA AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT" ... TENN. GOP TAKES AIM AT MICHELLE OBAMA <gotta love those gun metaphors> ... MCCAIN SAYS CLINTON AND OBAMA THREATEN GUN RIGHTS ...

Since the NRA never was JUST "about gun safety and conservation", how might you go about persuading it to become just about those things? Since its major focus seems to be about the second amendment and "firearms ownership rights", and large numbers of people don't appear to agree with its interpretation of either of those things, which side here is going to abandon its positions in order to achieve a state of peace and love?

If you're looking for a meeting of minds, which part of right field were you thinking of holding it in?

[beevul]

5. Cite please...

"Since the NRA never was JUST "about gun safety and conservation", how might you go about persuading it to become just about those things? Since its major focus seems to be about the second amendment and "firearms ownership rights", and large numbers of people don't appear to agree with its interpretation of either of those things, which side here is going to abandon its positions in order to achieve a state of peace and love?"

Prove it with a cite, otherwise its just more blather.


Meanwhile over at the VPC...



"Although they defended and promoted handguns for self-defense (the "homely old shotgun," however, was touted as the best home-defense firearm), their primary firearms interest was recreational: marksmanship, hunting and safety training."

http://www.vpc.org/nrainfo/chapter2.html


That may be the only statement I have ever seen from the VPC, thats believable, but there it is, a sound refutation of your claim that "...the NRA never was JUST "about gun safety and conservation".

"Since its major focus seems to be about the second amendment and "firearms ownership rights", and large numbers of people don't appear to agree with its interpretation of either of those things"

Yeah, and that "large number" is getting smaller every day, people are wising up...see the financial status of the brady oeg and the MMM.

[iverglas]

6. what are you on about now?

You're demanding a citation for Since the NRA never was JUST "about gun safety and conservation"?

What will you want next; a citation for the moon is not made of green cheese?

The NRA started out being about teaching "marksmanship", which is neither "gun safety" nor "conservation". Frankly, I'm not sure where conservation has ever come into it. Window dressing?

The NRA very early on opposed firearms control -- that machine-gun business I believe. And for the last three decades about all its political wings have done is oppopose firearms control, as has the NRA itself.


I'd suggest that the person who proposed that the NRA "(go) back to being about gun safety and conservation" is the person with the onus of demonstrating that there was ever a state of affairs such as described to go back to.

[beevul]

7. I'd suggest...

"I'd suggest that the person who proposed that the NRA "(go) back to being about gun safety and conservation" is the person with the onus of demonstrating that there was ever a state of affairs such as described to go back to."

I'd suggest that someone who would say such a thing should learn to recognise such a thing when its right in front of thier face (or put his/her glasses on) before making such a suggestion.

[old mark]

8. The NRA is about money, just like tha anti-gun groups

If Dems want NRA support, we should lose the anti-gun crowd. I believe they were a big part in costing us the last 2 elections. Many gun owners vote Rep because they are convinced the Dems are all dedicated to confiscating all guns. They may not care for the Reps, but they are afraid of the anti-gun Dems. NRA makes tons of money by stirring this up.

Get them on our side!!!

mark

[HK91-762mm]

9. The NRA supports gun rights-Dem and repub

Im not at all supprised the NRA is mostly supporting REPUBS-- WHY-? Just follow the voting records of the DEMS-Gun Bans -Microstamping-Registration -Maby a few dems support gun rights -But the fact is When the dems are in power they go gangbusters to enact gun control !
And dont forget the cuddly relationship with PETA and ALF ,,Anti hunting orgs .
SO ---Now tell me just why should anyone who likes hunting and gun rights support a dem???